Bible Study Hereticks Or Hypocrites??

[Squeakybro]

HERETICK
1 Cor 11:18-19
18 For first of all, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you, and in part I believe it.
19 For there must also be factions among you, that those who are approved may be recognized among you.
1 Cor 1:10
10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
Heb 4:12
12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Rom 16:17-18
17 Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them.
18 For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple.
1 Tim 4:1-2
1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron,
2 Tim 3:1
1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come:
Jude 1:19
19 These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit.
II Th 3:15
15 Yet do not count him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.
2 Tim 4:2
2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.
2 Tim 4:4-5
4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.
5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
John 12:43
43 for they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.
Jude 1:13-15
13 raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.
14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints,
15 "to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."
I Jn 2:19
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
They abide in the milk, refuse to except that the Holy Spirit is only going to teach them with the Word of God (verses).
2 Pet 1:20-2:2
20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,
21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
2 Pet 3:14-16
14 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless;
15 and account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation-- as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,
16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
Matt 7:6
6 "Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.
Phil 3:2
2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the mutilation!
Rev 22:14-15
14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
(NKJ)
xxxHeretick is one that causes division from the truth the Word of God(verses). And they are nonbelievers. A believer that causes division from the truth, the Word of God(verses) is called a hypocrite. But neither a heretick nor a hypocrite knows their doing it. They get deceived by the devil in their intellect and are motivated by pride. Now they do it with questions that are hard to answer. After they raise dought with a question that is hard to answer then they pour on their deception full of carnal reason and logic. And the only power a real Christian has is the verses. A real christian will always be driven back to their faith in the Word(verses).

John 16:2-3
2 "They will put you out of the synagogues; yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service.
3 "And these things they will do to you because they have not known the Father nor Me.
Titus 3:10
10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
(KJV)

 

[cyberjosh]

Is this why you disregarded the verses I quoted in the "God the Father" thread concerning the divinity of Jesus (being in essence God)?

I will show them to you again and then you deem whether my belief of Jesus as God is heretical or not:

Jesus was so identified with the Father that he said they were one (John 10:30). If you saw Jesus you saw the Father, "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." And he showed their intimate relationship, "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me?" (John 14:7-10)

Jesus said, "I have come in My Father's name" (John 5:43) and identified himself several times as I AM. Jesus said to the priests to "tear this temple down" and he would rebuild it in 3 days, refering to his death and ressurection. Acts says that God raised him, but Jesus takes first person here (I will).

Philippians 2:6 says "although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, " because he was equal with God the Father already.
Hebrews 1:8 reveals what God the Father said of the Son, "But of the Son He says,
'YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER,
AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.' "

Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God!" (John 20:28). And Colossians 2:9 says, "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form."

Jesus is not to be denied as God under any circumstances.

----------------------------------------------------------------

I wont let this go until I get a straight answer from you because it is such an important issue.

And keep in mind that the Bible says that Jesus will be a stumbling block of a offence to some. This doctrine seems to be one of those testing stumbling blocks.

 

[John the Baptist]

[quote="Squeakybro"]HERETICK
1 Cor 11:18-19
18 For first of all, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you, and in part I believe it.
19 For there must also be factions among you, that those who are approved may be recognized among you.
1 Cor 1:10
10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
Heb 4:12
12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Rom 16:17-18
17 Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them.
18 For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple.
1 Tim 4:1-2
1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron,
2 Tim 3:1
1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come:
Jude 1:19
19 These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit.
II Th 3:15
15 Yet do not count him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.
2 Tim 4:2
2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.
2 Tim 4:4-5
4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.
5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
John 12:43
43 for they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.
Jude 1:13-15
13 raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.
14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints,
15 "to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."
I Jn 2:19
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
They abide in the milk, refuse to except that the Holy Spirit is only going to teach them with the Word of God (verses).
2 Pet 1:20-2:2
20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,
21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
2 Pet 3:14-16
14 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless;
15 and account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation-- as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,
16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
Matt 7:6
6 "Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.
Phil 3:2
2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the mutilation!
Rev 22:14-15
14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
(NKJ)
xxxHeretick is one that causes division from the truth the Word of God(verses). And they are nonbelievers. A believer that causes division from the truth, the Word of God(verses) is called a hypocrite. But neither a heretick nor a hypocrite knows their doing it. They get deceived by the devil in their intellect and are motivated by pride. Now they do it with questions that are hard to answer. After they raise dought with a question that is hard to answer then they pour on their deception full of carnal reason and logic. And the only power a real Christian has is the verses. A real christian will always be driven back to their faith in the Word(verses).

John 16:2-3
2 "They will put you out of the synagogues; yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service.
3 "And these things they will do to you because they have not known the Father nor Me.
Titus 3:10
10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
(KJV)[/quote]

******

Very well put together! Matt. 4:4 ---John

 

[Squeakybro]

THE 'ARE ONE' DELUSION
WE ARE ONE WITH CHRIST AND GOD AND HOLY SPIRIT
IF JESUS IS GOD BECAUSE OF THE ONENESS-THEN WE ARE GOD. NOT SO!
John 10:30
30 "I and My Father are one."
(NKJ)
John 17:22
22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
I Jn 5:7-8
7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.
1 Cor 12:12-14
12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body-- whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free-- and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
14 For in fact the body is not one member but many.
1 Cor 10:16-17
16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?
17 For we, though many, are one bread and one body; for we all partake of that one bread.
1 Cor 3:7-11
7 So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase.
8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
9 For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, you are God's building.
10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it.
11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Rom 12:5
5 so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another.
John 17:20-23
20 "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
21 "that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
23 "I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
John 10:29-30
29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.
30 "I and My Father are one."
Eph 4:4-6
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
1 Cor 6:17
17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
Matt 10:32-33
32 "Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven.
33 "But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.
1 Cor 11:1
1 Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ.
2 Cor 10:4-5
4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds,
5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,
1 Cor 11:3
3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
Rom 16:25-27
25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began
26 but now has been made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures has been made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith--
27 to God, alone wise, be glory through Jesus Christ forever. Amen.
1 Cor 1:10
10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
Rom 12:16
16 Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion.
Phil 3:16
16 Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us be of the same mind.
2 Cor 4:13-14
13 And since we have the same spirit of faith, according to what is written, "I believed and therefore I spoke," we also believe and therefore speak,
14 knowing that He who raised up the Lord Jesus will also raise us up with Jesus, and will present us with you.
(NKJ)
xxOneness is all about agreement. John 17-22 Jesus prayed that we may be one the same way that Jesus and God are one. Jesus submitted to every Word of God that shows His agreement. We are to submit to every Word of God to show our agreement.
Jesus prayed John 17-22 that we "are one" with Jesus and God the Father. And that doesnt make us God any more than it made Jesus God to be one with God.

 

[Squeakybro]

THE I AM DELUSION
John 7:39-43
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
40 Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet.
41 Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee?
42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
43 So there was a division among the people because of him.
John 7:51-52
51 Doth our law judge any man, before it hear him, and know what he doeth?
52 They answered and said unto him, Art thou also of Galilee? Search, and look: for out of Galilee ariseth no prophet.
John 8:1-2
1 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.
2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
John 8:12
12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
John 8:16-18
16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
John 8:21
21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
John 8:23-24
23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
John 8:28-29
28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
John 8:58-59
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
(KJV)
xxx Jesus was teaching in the temple and they were questioning Him on whether or not He was the Christ. Then they all went home and came back the next day to question Him some more. When Jesus told them: you will die in your sins if you do not believe that I am He. Then in verse 58 Jesus was telling them that even before Abraham that I am . But they picked up stones to throw at Him so they cut Jesus off in the middle of His sentance and Jesus got out of there. Jesus was claiming that" I AM He" the Christ. Jesus was not claiming He was God.
verse 24 and 28 Jesus said it, I am he. Jesus was saying He was the Christ that they were speaking of in John 7-41. But in is obvious why they didnt understand from John 7-39 they havent received the Holy Spirit yet. And even today many do not know the Spirit and get deceived in the verses.

 

[cyberjosh]

xxOneness is all about agreement. John 17-22 Jesus prayed that we may be one the same way that Jesus and God are one. Jesus submitted to every Word of God that shows His agreement. We are to submit to every Word of God to show our agreement.
Jesus prayed John 17-22 that we "are one" with Jesus and God the Father. And that doesnt make us God any more than it made Jesus God to be one with God.

No you misunderstand the nature of oneness. First of all Christ is shown in the NT to have exculsive rights and relationship with the Father that even believers do not have, but we have an advocate who can fill in the gaps for us: Jesus. Jesus is one with the Father because he is equally God. And you conveniently have not commented on each of the verses that I quoted that Show of Jesus being God.

How we are one with God is because God has put his Holy Spirit in us, though we do not have the very nature and essence of the Holy Spirit's deity of which Jesus does, being God. But God because of His righteousness that He imputes to us, by Jesus' blood, conveyed by the Holy Spirit in us, deems us sinless in his sight and does not impute sin to us, thus we are eligible to become partakers of the Divine nature (2 Peter 1:4). But this is unlike Jesus which is the fullness of the Divine nature in which we partake of, Jesus being God and all.

And I would like you to quote each verse that I gave above to show you that Jesus was God, and point out how I have "misunderstood" the meaning/implication of each verse, instead of running away from them.

 

[Squeakybro]

you said
No you misunderstand the nature of oneness. First of all Christ is shown in the NT to have exculsive rights and relationship with the Father that even believers do not have, but we have an advocate who can fill in the gaps for us: Jesus. Jesus is one with the Father because he is equally God. And you conveniently have not commented on each of the verses that I quoted that Show of Jesus being God.

I said
Well one of us doesnt understand what divine nature is.Anyone will have the divine nature of God when God works through them. God was working through Jesus which gave Him the divine nature. When God works through us we have the divine nature.
Divine Nature

Acts 17:29
29 "Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man's devising.
(NKJ)
2 Pet 1:4
4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
(NKJ)
2 Pet 1:2-3
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord,
3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue,

2 Cor 5:18-19
18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,
19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
(NKJ)

you said
How we are one with God is because God has put his Holy Spirit in us, though we do not have the very nature and essence of the Holy Spirit's deity of which Jesus does, being God. But God because of His righteousness that He imputes to us, by Jesus' blood, conveyed by the Holy Spirit in us, deems us sinless in his sight and does not impute sin to us, thus we are eligible to become partakers of the Divine nature (2 Peter 1:4). But this is unlike Jesus which is the fullness of the Divine nature in which we partake of, Jesus being God and all.

I said
Do you even know what deity means?
Deity-Divinity

I have seen these words used in so many different context, that I had to go to the library and look in the big dictionary. To try to find out why these people are using it the way they are. It amazed me. The carnal language is dangerous because it is satans play ground. Satan can use the carnal mind, change a few words, exaggerate anything there. But the spiritual mind which is only verses, he has no power. He can only try with a piece of a verse, and this is why I tell everybody. If you ever get a piece of a verse, go look it up for verification. But he(satan) will not use a whole verse because that is glorifiing Christ. And satan is anti-christ. Now when I speak of verses I'm speaking of new testament verses, because we know that he(satan) quotes old testament verses. And yes the Holy Spirit quotes old testament verses to. But Christ is the new testament. Anyway check out these deffinitions from the big dictionary at the library.

deity 1 a: often cap : divine nature or rank: the essintial nature of a god or of a supreme being: DIVINITY

di-vin-i-ty 1:the quality or state of being divine: nature or essence of God: GODHEAD (the divinity of Jesus) a celestial being inferior to the supreme God but superior to man<one of the subservient divinities>

Now it doesnt say that Jesus is God, what it says is He is second in command, it says Jesus is inferior to the supreme God but over every other creature in heaven and on earth.
I got my deffinitions from websters new world dictionary copyright 1993

you said
And I would like you to quote each verse that I gave above to show you that Jesus was God, and point out how I have "misunderstood" the meaning/implication of each verse, instead of running away from them.

I said
Not one of them verses says that Jesus was God. I'm not running away from nothing. I just try to avoid foolish disputes.

2 Tim 2:23
23 But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife.
(NKJ)

My revelations get taken off this board for some of the most rediculous reasons. How would it be if I proved you wrong on alot of stuff.

 

[cyberjosh]

Well one of us doesnt understand what divine nature is.Anyone will have the divine nature of God when God works through them. God was working through Jesus which gave Him the divine nature. When God works through us we have the divine nature.

Heh you contradict the reason you gave me that Thomas called Jesus God. Well why wasn't Jesus concerned about offending Thomas since he had just given them the Holy Spirit. Shouldn't Jesus then be calling Thomas God if your faulty reasoning is right?

Do you even know what deity means?
Deity-Divinity

I have seen these words used in so many different context, that I had to go to the library and look in the big dictionary. To try to find out why these people are using it the way they are. It amazed me. The carnal language is dangerous because it is satans play ground. Satan can use the carnal mind, change a few words, exaggerate anything there. But the spiritual mind which is only verses, he has no power. He can only try with a piece of a verse, and this is why I tell everybody. If you ever get a piece of a verse, go look it up for verification. But he(satan) will not use a whole verse because that is glorifiing Christ. And satan is anti-christ. Now when I speak of verses I'm speaking of new testament verses, because we know that he(satan) quotes old testament verses. And yes the Holy Spirit quotes old testament verses to. But Christ is the new testament. Anyway check out these deffinitions from the big dictionary at the library.

deity 1 a: often cap : divine nature or rank: the essintial nature of a god or of a supreme being: DIVINITY

di-vin-i-ty 1:the quality or state of being divine: nature or essence of God: GODHEAD (the divinity of Jesus) a celestial being inferior to the supreme God but superior to man<one of the subservient divinities>

Now it doesnt say that Jesus is God, what it says is He is second in command, it says Jesus is inferior to the supreme God but over every other creature in heaven and on earth.
I got my deffinitions from websters new world dictionary copyright 1993

In the history of the word never has it had an inbuild meaning of "inferior". I'm not sure where it dug up its definition, if not from theological bias seeing that it mentions specifically Jesus (and not giving a general definition that could apply to greek or romans gods as well). And I thought you were an advocate of reading from the Bible's words and taking them in context. You won't find this concept applied in the Bible.

And if you want to use something that a little more adept to the original languages try to look at a concordance.

The Greek word for Divine is theios from the root theos of which is always translated God. There is no inbuilt meaning of inferior nature in the word. You would becalling God the Father inferior to something then. Strong's numbers #2304 & #2305 make up the variations of theios and is translated in 2 Peter 1:3 & 1:4 as "divine", in Acts 17:29 as "Godhead", and in Romans 1:20 as "Godhead" (that verse refering to God the Father). So don't spin me any junk about the inferiority of Jesus because of the word "divine".

Not one of them verses says that Jesus was God. I'm not running away from nothing. I just try to avoid foolish disputes.

I do too. But if this issue is one thing, it is not a foolish dispute. Even you should agree that one's stance on this matter can shape how they live their life and how/who they worship and glorify as God. This is a very important issue.

My revelations get taken off this board for some of the most rediculous reasons. How would it be if I proved you wrong on alot of stuff.

I'm not the one who locked your threads. I would have participated in them if they hadn't have been locked. Don't beat me up over it.

~Josh

 

[Squeakybro]

I'm sorry but it appears your just rambling.

 

[cyberjosh]

I'm sorry but it appears your just rambling.

LOL! The best excuse in the book. "I can't adequetely answer your points so I'll just say 'it appears you are just rambling'."

C'mon man I gave you a good explanation from the concordance, what's the problem? And I made other valid points. Surely you aren't going to give up now.

Please don't, I really do want to get to the bottom of this.

 

[Squeakybro]

LOL! The best excuse in the book. "I can't adequetely answer your points so I'll just say 'it appears you are just rambling'."

C'mon man I gave you a good explanation from the concordance, what's the problem? And I made other valid points. Surely you aren't going to give up now.

Please don't, I really do want to get to the bottom of this.

I said
You seem to have a short fuse??? I'm sorry but it just didnt make any sense to me. If you would like to reword it I'll try again.

 

[cyberjosh]

I'm sorry but it just didnt make any sense to me. If you would like to reword it I'll try again.

Well seeing how you know English you could atleast help me out and tell me which sentances in specific don't make sense instead of giving the very non-helpful comment that I am just "rambling".

What don't you understand about this:

You contradict the reason you gave me that Thomas called Jesus God. Well why wasn't Jesus concerned about offending Thomas since he had just given them the Holy Spirit. Shouldn't Jesus then be calling Thomas God if your faulty reasoning is right?

You said in the "fallen from grace thread" that Thomas only called Jesus God because he had God's spirit in him.

squeakyBro said: Thomas knew that God was in Jesus doing all the works. Now If you were standing before Jesus and knew that God was also in Jesus would you insult one of them by not addressing them? If he addressed Jesus he would be insulting God. If he only addressed God he would be insulting Jesus. So he addressed them both.

My arguement: the disciples had God's Spirit in them too, so your point doesn't make any sense, because then Jesus wouldn't have deserved a special title if they all qualified for it.

As for the next one:

The Greek word for Divine is theios from the root theos of which is always translated God. There is no inbuilt meaning of inferior nature in the word. You would becalling God the Father inferior to something then. Strong's numbers #2304 & #2305 make up the variations of theios and is translated in 2 Peter 1:3 & 1:4 as "divine", in Acts 17:29 as "Godhead", and in Romans 1:20 as "Godhead" (that verse refering to God the Father). So don't spin me any junk about the inferiority of Jesus because of the word "divine".

You know how to use concordance information I don't need to help you out here.

The other two are straight forward comments which you should be able to understand.

Now can you respond to my posts? Please?

 

[Squeakybro]

you said
Quote:
I'm sorry but it just didnt make any sense to me. If you would like to reword it I'll try again.


Well seeing how you know English you could atleast help me out and tell me which sentances in specific don't make sense instead of giving the very non-helpful comment that I am just "rambling".

What don't you understand about this:

Quote:
You contradict the reason you gave me that Thomas called Jesus God. Well why wasn't Jesus concerned about offending Thomas since he had just given them the Holy Spirit. Shouldn't Jesus then be calling Thomas God if your faulty reasoning is right?

I said
I did not say that Thomas was calling Jesus God. What I said was that Thomas was addressing both Jesus and God. Thomas knew that God was in Christ so he was addressing them both.

you said
You said in the "fallen from grace thread" that Thomas only called Jesus God because he had God's spirit in him.

I said
No I didnt. Thomas never called Jesus God.

Quote:
squeakyBro said: Thomas knew that God was in Jesus doing all the works. Now If you were standing before Jesus and knew that God was also in Jesus would you insult one of them by not addressing them? If he addressed Jesus he would be insulting God. If he only addressed God he would be insulting Jesus. So he addressed them both.

you said
My arguement: the disciples had God's Spirit in them too, so your point doesn't make any sense, because then Jesus wouldn't have deserved a special title if they all qualified for it.

I said
And here is where your wrong. The disciples never received the Holy Spirit until the upper room in the book of Acts. And your assuming that the Holy Spirit is God which that is wrong also.

you said
As for the next one:

Quote:
The Greek word for Divine is theios from the root theos of which is always translated God. There is no inbuilt meaning of inferior nature in the word. You would becalling God the Father inferior to something then. Strong's numbers #2304 & #2305 make up the variations of theios and is translated in 2 Peter 1:3 & 1:4 as "divine", in Acts 17:29 as "Godhead", and in Romans 1:20 as "Godhead" (that verse refering to God the Father). So don't spin me any junk about the inferiority of Jesus because of the word "divine".

I said
Now your playing word games. The word was deity, or divinity. Which your only assuming is divine nature. But the definition of deity is
Deity-Divinity

I have seen these words used in so many different context, that I had to go to the library and look in the big dictionary. To try to find out why these people are using it the way they are. It amazed me. The carnal language is dangerous because it is satans play ground. Satan can use the carnal mind, change a few words, exaggerate anything there. But the spiritual mind which is only verses, he has no power. He can only try with a piece of a verse, and this is why I tell everybody. If you ever get a piece of a verse, go look it up for verification. But he(satan) will not use a whole verse because that is glorifiing Christ. And satan is anti-christ. Now when I speak of verses I'm speaking of new testament verses, because we know that he(satan) quotes old testament verses. And yes the Holy Spirit quotes old testament verses to. But Christ is the new testament. Anyway check out these deffinitions from the big dictionary at the library.

deity 1 a: often cap : divine nature or rank: the essintial nature of a god or of a supreme being: DIVINITY

di-vin-i-ty 1:the quality or state of being divine: nature or essence of God: GODHEAD (the divinity of Jesus) a celestial being inferior to the supreme God but superior to man<one of the subservient divinities>

Now it doesnt say that Jesus is God, what it says is He is second in command, it says Jesus is inferior to the supreme God but over every other creature in heaven and on earth.
I got my deffinitions from websters new world dictionary copyright 1993



You know how to use concordance information I don't need to help you out here.

The other two are straight forward comments which you should be able to understand.

Now can you respond to my posts? Please?

 

[cyberjosh]

And here is where your wrong. The disciples never received the Holy Spirit until the upper room in the book of Acts. And your assuming that the Holy Spirit is God which that is wrong also.

Oh.....my....gosh. My jaw literally dropped when you said that. I quite simply cannot continue this conversation with you because you refuse to see reason and you deny God on multiple fronts. You my friend are very close to blaspheming (rejecting) the Holy Spirit.

Now your playing word games. The word was deity, or divinity. Which your only assuming is divine nature. But the definition of deity is

I'm not the one who is playing word games. And you are the one assuming the meaning of words beyond the Bible. I looked up all the Greek words that mention divine and Godhead in the Bible and I gave them to you. Any thing out side of that is a fallacy, and you completely ignored my point that no where in the history of the word divine is it used in the sense of inferior, and not to mention English is not the language to be examining the word divine in.

 

[Squeakybro]

I'm not the one who is playing word games. And you are the one assuming the meaning of words beyond the Bible. I looked up all the Greek words that mention divine and Godhead in the Bible and I gave them to you. Any thing out side of that is a fallacy, and you completely ignored my point that no where in the history of the word divine is it used in the sense of inferior, and not to mention English is not the language to be examining the word divine in.

I said
Let me see if I can help you understand something. Everyone starts out in life with dictionaries. They start with websters and funk and wagnal. But when one turns to the bible they have to change dictionaries. They turn to strongs or nelsons or greek or hebrew. Now all these are fine for their purpose. But when it comes to the meat understanding of the Word of God nothing overrides the revelations of Jesus Christ that Paul spoke of. And them revelations are done with all verses. Any time you go to one of your man made dictionaries you make the authority of the Word of God second best. Now until you can love God with "ALL" your mind you will always fall short of the glory of God.

Heb 4:12-13
12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.
(NKJ)

Mark 12:30
30 'And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.' This is the first commandment.
(NKJ)

 

[cyberjosh]

Let me see if I can help you understand something. Everyone starts out in life with dictionaries. They start with websters and funk and wagnal. But when one turns to the bible they have to change dictionaries. They turn to strongs or nelsons or greek or hebrew. Now all these are fine for their purpose. But when it comes to the meat understanding of the Word of God nothing overrides the revelations of Jesus Christ that Paul spoke of. And them revelations are done with all verses. Any time you go to one of your man made dictionaries you make the authority of the Word of God second best. Now until you can love God with "ALL" your mind you will always fall short of the glory of God.

So now it all comes out into the open. I suspected since the first day when you made that thread on hidden revelations of the Word that you were claiming secret knowledge of the word of God which only some Christians could obtain. The Gnostics of the 1st & 2nd centuries were decried as heretics for caliming to have secret knowledge, gnosis, of the word of God and even the Apostle John wrote an epistle against this heresy in 1st John. You claim to have a higher understanding of the word of God. The word of God should be easily understood by all people and straight forward from the scholar to the ill educated, and reading God's word straight up never says that Jesus is not God nor that the Holy Spirit is not God and your ideas are working contrary to God's holy word because a perversion and delusion that has come upon you of having a privledged knowledge which you claim only the 'meat' have.

I stand to back God's word in the following matter:

"We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ." (2 Corinthians 10:5)

You ought to check yourself against the word, for God says I would that you would be hot or cold, lest you be luke warm and he spit you out of his mouth. Why didn't Jesus just say "I wish that you were hot"? Because even the cold (unbelievers) are better off than the pretentious man who thinks he has God figured out because at least the sinner knows he is in sin.

I testify with the witness of the Holy Spirit in me that you are declaring falsehood for I am not a babe in my thinking in Christ and have been partaking of the meat of God's word for a long time and no such delusions have come from the working of the Holy Spirit in my understanding of the Word. The Bible testifies to Jesus & the Holy Spirit as God. That is final.

 

[Squeakybro]

you said
The word of God should be easily understood by all people and straight forward from the scholar to the ill educated,

I said
That is blasphemy. I see why your so deluted now. I will post a revelation on "Intellectual Idiots" and then you tell me if the scholar can see what the ill educated see.

 

[cyberjosh]

That is blasphemy.

What is blasphemy? That all men regardless of who you are can come to an understanding of the Gospel and be saved? All people can have saving faith. I'm not talking about some intellectual attainment of salvation, I'm merely stating that the Gospel should make sense to all people, thus your idea of special knowledge would be false (for example: even to the Babe it is evident that Jesus is equal with God - Philippians 2:6). It doesn't take a Scholar or genius to understand what Philippians 2:6 is saying. I wasn't putting any emphasis on either the educated or non-educated, because all should be able to understand the gospel, not just the Scholar who can read it in the original languages and perhaps has years of theological training under his belt.

Knowledge matures as you grow more in the word but that is most certainly not what you have been displaying here.

But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. (2 Corinthians 11:3)

That is blasphemy. I see why your so deluted now. I will post a revelation on "Intellectual Idiots" and then you tell me if the scholar can see what the ill educated see.

You are saying that educated men cannot see the Gospel correctly? I agree that a prideful unbeliever that can't get over his ego will never see God's grace but that doesn't mean that one can't be educated and become a scholar once one is saved and use it for God's glory.

 

[cyberjosh]

I will post a revelation on "Intellectual Idiots"

Do you get these "revelations" upon a whim now? Or do you claim that God lays these revelations on your heart immediately? This sure sounds like gnosis to me.

 

[John the Baptist]

--The Doctrine Of Christ--

----The Doctrine OF CHRIST that He WARNED ABOUT in John 2:9-11!---

John here with a post reply from another thread that I made. It is mostly in tack.

You say later on: "I guess what troubles me most,... is the possibility of calling something 'God' that is not God." (Elijah inserts: You sound like you know more than God does with that remark! If so, where does that originate from?? See Gen. 4:7)

Me again: The ten commandments that Christ wrote, would even condemn Christ Himself if He were not God, in the first four commandments one sees where WORSHIP can only belongs to GOD! Not angels, not created ones, nor Christ if He WAS & IS not God! Rev. 14:6-7's Everlasting Gospel alone has the universe 'seeing' the worshiping of Christ!
Hebrews 13:20
Or do you as with Jehovah Witnesses strike the WORD WORSHIP from your belief as they do from their bibles? If so, then you too need the WARNING from John's other inspired Words of Rev.'s last few verses of adding to or removing from...! (also note Ecclesiastes 3:14!) That is Very Dangerous, and FATAL when the 'sin is finished'! James 1:15.

Christ forgave sins! Christ healed the BLIND! (BOTH WAYS!!) Christ RAISED THE DEAD! (BOTH WAYS!!) Only GOD/MAN could do this!! The devil in Matt. 4 requested Christ to fall down and worship him, what was Christ' reply, and where was it written?? It was meant for whom?? Again John had the same testing in his penned book of Revelation 22:8-9 when he fell down at the feet of the angel, as it appears in being awestruck? Anyhow, the message from the angel was a warning not to do so!

He said to John:
".. See thou do it not: for I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren the prophets, [and of them that keep the sayings of this book: WORSHIP GOD]." But not Christ, huh? [CHRIST IS GOD/IN/THE/FLESH!!] Where again does one find the WORSHIP GOD COMMANDMENT? Right back to the Royal Universal Everlasting Covenant that Christ Himself wrote in the ten Commandments of Stone! Heb. 13:20's ETERNAL COVENANT! Christ IS GOD ETERNAL!

Stephen while being stoned to death in Acts 7 was 'filled with the Holy Ghost' and said: "THIS IS HE, THAT WAS [IN] THE CHURCH IN THE WILDERNESS].." David stated in Christ's Word, by the Inspiration of the Holy Ghost...
"Give ear, O Sherpard of Israel, [THOU THAT LEADEST JOSEPH LIKE A FLOCK; *THOU THAT DWELLEST BETWEEN THE CHERUBIM'S, SHINE FORTH."

It is interesting how any could miss this when reading Prov. 8? See verse 5? "O ye simple, understand wisdom: and ye fools, be ye of an understanding heart." ???
Then comes prophetic wisdom of the future of 1000 years & the life of Christ the SON OF GOD!! Even as a child playing and maturing!
Yet, some even try to project this as teaching that Christ had a beginning as the Son of God before he came to earth and actually was born!, or at least in eternity somewhere!!

Notice verse 23 for the Godhead's PLAN IN ETERNITY... "I WAS SET UP FROM EVERLASTING, FROM THE BEGINNING, OR EVER THE EARTH WAS." From *EVERLASTING! From before! Or EVER THE EARTH WAS! *BY HIM WERE [ALL THINGS CREATED, THAT WERE CREATED: THAT ARE IN THE HEAVEN, AND THAT ARE IN THE EARTH, VISIBLE AND INVISIBLE, *WHETHER THEY BE THRONES, OR DOMINIONS, OR PRINCIPALITIES, OR POWERS: *ALL THINGS WERE CREATED FOR HIM AND BY HIM: AND HE IS BEFORE ALL THINGS: AND BY HIM ALL THINGS CONSIST. ... AND IT PLEASED THE FATHER THAT IN HIM SHOULD ALL THE *FULLNESS DWELL."
Colossians 1:15-19 in part.

And this is BEFORE and AFTER Christ became God/Man!
THIS Above [IS THE EVERLASTING DOCTRINE OF CHRIST!] 2 John 1:9

And They not only prophesied Their plan in Proverbs, but told that they would DECLARE THE DECREE!![/b] "I WILL DECLARE THE DECREE: the Lord hath said unto me, [THOU ART MY SON; *THIS DAY HAVE I BEGOTTEN THEE]." Psalms 2:7

Then the furture day came! When did God Christ become the Son of God in actual conception? Most know! :fadein:

But in Heb. 1:5 it states the time as past/tense setting. Verse 5's last part of the verse it says:
"... THOU ART MY SON, THIS DAY HAVE I BEGOTTEN THEE?." There is a question mark there! Read 1-5 for it to be removed!!!

Then there is.. "This is He that was in the CHURCH in the wilderness.." Acts 7:38

"... ignorant ... And drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that *ROCK WAS CHRIST." 1 Cor. 10:1-3 in part.

"Give ear, O Shepard of Israel, thou that leadest Joseph like a flock; thou that dwellest between the cherubims, shine forth." Psalms 80:1

[*NOTICE] "Jesus Christ the *SAME YESTERDAY, and TODAY, [[and FOREVER]]. (Everlasting Gospel & Everlasting Covenant) IMMORTAL with no starting point!!!

Be [NOT CARRIED ABOUT WITH DIVERS AND STRANGE DOCTRINES."] Hebrews 13:8, 9. This is [/u][the Doctrine of Christ]! Again 2 John 9-11.

[/u]"Thou, even Thou, ART LORD ALONE; Thou hast made heaven, the heaven OF HEAVENS, with ALL THEIR HOST, the earth, and ALL THINGS that are therein, ... and Thou Preservest them ALL; and the HOST OF HEAVEN *WORSHIPETH THEE. Nehemiah 9:6

... Moreover THOU leddeth them in the day by a cloudy pillar; and in the night by a pillar of fire, ...Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spaketh with them from heaven, AND GAVETH THEM RIGHT JUDGEMENTS, AND TRUE LAWS, GOOD STATUES *AND COMMANDMENTS. (plural!) AND *MADEST KNOWN UNTO THEM [THY HOLY SABBATH, (No plural!) and commandest them [precepts, statutes, *and laws, (plural) and BY THE HAND OF MOSES thy servant.." Nehemiah 9:12,14. (Deuteronomy 31:9 Moses wrote this law in a book! see following verses Deuteronomy 31:24-26 for their placement in the *side of the Ark)

And note Colossians 1:13-19 "For by Him were CREATED ALL THINGS .... AND HE WAS *BEFORE ALL THINGS ..."

AGAIN DEAR FRIEND, (S?) ETERNAL CHRIST GOD, JEHOVAH GOD, HOLY SPIRIT GOD! That IS THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL & THE EVERLASTING COVENANT OF THE ONE GOD, GODHEAD.

Some come close to understanding Their Truth, yet, two of the above do have an image that we were originally created with, & the other is called by Himself as Holy Spirit, and Holy Ghost, that we also are 'required' to take part with! John 3:3