Hey people, please read.

[Josh Asher]

Or don't, whatever works. I just joined and I have a couple things to say after my intro. I'm Josh, and I became a Christian last year in July. I don't know the exact day of my spiritual birth, but it was in there. I've had a sordid life, definitely not as bad as some people out there, but still kinda hard. I recognized sin easily and I've become bery knowledgeable about it. Though it's not hard.

Anyway, since then I've had MUCH trouble in my walk with Christ. Without going into detail, I'll tell you I repeatedly fall into sin even to this day, and even though I often ask God for forgiveness, tell Him I don't want to sin and that I hate it, and feel I hate it, and try not to do it, I still fall into it for periods at a time. I have struggled incredibly with hell and still do, and sometimes I get very mad at God but then understand why it's there, and...anyway, my two things I wanted to say.

Firstly, there is something that bothers me several pastors and teachers are saying and I feel it may be a false doctrine. I read this book that had Bible answers, written by a long time preacher, and in it he said that you're saved once and always saved, and even if you fall into sin and die in it you will not go to hell. Now I feel like this is a bold lie. Yet at the same time seems true. There are Scriptures that go for both sides, mostly for if you fall away you will be condemned even if you made Jesus Lord and Savior and were baptized and everything. He said that forgiveness covers our sins. Oh and Billy Graham says the same. But Jesus said a LOT of hard things, things that make me want to not ever read the Bible, and He made it seem clear that there is no such thing as "eternal security" as my own mother, also a Christian, calls it. I've been tempted to believe in eternal security because I'm so terrified of hell and hate that it's real (i read 23 Minutes in Hell and it really woke me up) not so I can feel good in my sins. I truly hate sin. But then sometimes I don't. Like what the heck.

 

[handy]

Hi Josh, welcome to the forum!


As a Christian, you should desire to read God's word. I understand that you seem confused regarding the Bible and even leery of reading it. But, I gain from your post that part of the problem is that you are falling into a very, very common error: Reading what others have to say regarding the Bible, and not reading the Bible for yourself.

You also seem to be feeling the conflict that comes from a new life in Christ as well, the conflict of our old sinful nature and our new desire to life a holy life unto the Lord. You're not alone in this desire to do right, then the falling into sin...even the apostle Paul went through this. As a matter of fact, you can take a kind of comfort in the conflict...it you were not born of God, it would hardly matter to you if you sinned or not.

Eternal security versus the loss of salvation is an on-going debate within the Church which most likely will not be resolved anytime soon. However, if you are in agreement with God that your sin is exactly that: sin...and that you truly do desire to do the right thing, but fail in your ability to do so and confess this...you can be sure that God forgives you. As time goes by, if we continue our walk in the Spirit, certain sins will just fall by the wayside. Other things might represent a life-long temptation that needs to be daily brought to the cross. But, again, this is normal for all Christians. Frankly, I always suspect the ones who will state emphatically that they never sin.

As John tells the church "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us." 1 John 1:8-10

The key isn't to claim to never sin, nor just give up and say, "Hey, I can't help it" but rather to agree with God that our sin is wrong, to confess to Him and ask forgiveness for it.

I truly do encourage you to read your Bible. Read it, and prayerfully ask the Lord to guide you through it. There is no "right" or "wrong" way to read through the Scriptures, but for new Christians, I always suggest reading first the Gospel of John, then the other three Gospels. Why the Gospel of John first....simple prejudice really, I was saved reading the Gospel of John and to this day feel that it is the Gospel that most brings out Who Jesus is to us on a very individual level.

 

[theLords]

Or don't, whatever works. I just joined and I have a couple things to say after my intro. I'm Josh, and I became a Christian last year in July. I don't know the exact day of my spiritual birth, but it was in there. I've had a sordid life, definitely not as bad as some people out there, but still kinda hard. I recognized sin easily and I've become bery knowledgeable about it. Though it's not hard.

Anyway, since then I've had MUCH trouble in my walk with Christ. Without going into detail, I'll tell you I repeatedly fall into sin even to this day, and even though I often ask God for forgiveness, tell Him I don't want to sin and that I hate it, and feel I hate it, and try not to do it, I still fall into it for periods at a time. I have struggled incredibly with hell and still do, and sometimes I get very mad at God but then understand why it's there, and...anyway, my two things I wanted to say.

Firstly, there is something that bothers me several pastors and teachers are saying and I feel it may be a false doctrine. I read this book that had Bible answers, written by a long time preacher, and in it he said that you're saved once and always saved, and even if you fall into sin and die in it you will not go to hell. Now I feel like this is a bold lie. Yet at the same time seems true. There are Scriptures that go for both sides, mostly for if you fall away you will be condemned even if you made Jesus Lord and Savior and were baptized and everything. He said that forgiveness covers our sins. Oh and Billy Graham says the same. But Jesus said a LOT of hard things, things that make me want to not ever read the Bible, and He made it seem clear that there is no such thing as "eternal security" as my own mother, also a Christian, calls it. I've been tempted to believe in eternal security because I'm so terrified of hell and hate that it's real (i read 23 Minutes in Hell and it really woke me up) not so I can feel good in my sins. I truly hate sin. But then sometimes I don't. Like what the heck.

Hi John! Welcome to the forum! :waving

I'm sorry to see that you are under going so much pain, but grateful to see you are seeking God to help you overcome it.

Handy (as she always does) has given you some great advice.

You have stated that you have a hate for sin. This is very good! This is the heart that the Lord is pleased with. Do you understand what repentance is? Repentance is a complete turning away from sin. From your words you truly seem to display this heart.

Think of it this way:

George is a new Christian. He used to curse like a sailor before he was saved. Now, the Lord has convicted his heart to change his ways. He hates his sin and repents. George now actively makes attempts to mind his language. However, against his better judgment he finds that every now and then he lets a curse word or two slip out. He asks for forgiveness and keeps moving forward.

God sees the heart of George. God has compassion on George. He sees that his heart is one that has turned away from sin, and so the Lord is pleased. He also sees that George has been cursing for a very long time, and that old habits die hard, and so God has compassion towards Him. "Where sin abounds, grace does that much more abound." (Romans 5:20) (But not in the context that we allow ourselves to sin because of grace. Romans 6:1)

Also consider, are you striving to overcome your sin? I.E. striving in the flesh? When we try to overcome our sins through our own natural strengths we end up failing and getting frustrated. The Lord wants us to empty ourselves of ourselves and allow His Holy Spirit to do the work through us ("Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit says the Lord" Zechariah 4:6; 2 Corinthians 2:9 "and then He said, 'My grace is sufficient for you for My power is made perfect in weakness' "; Paul said in the next verse (2:10) "For when I am weak, then I am strong")

Does all of this make sense to you?

God works with us gently and slowly. He molds us into the image of Christ with great care. The Bible says "oppressed but not crushed." (2 Corinthians 4:8)

The fact that you say you are having such a hard time with overcoming a particular sin leads me to believe you need healing in a certain area of your heart.

For example: Those who are the most proud are usually the most insecure. They have been criticized and put down so much, that their wounded hearts now use pride to protect themselves.

Those with anger problems are usually sad and sensitive. They have had their sensitive hearts neglected and trampled on (or abused). This wound in their hearts causes them to be angry to protect themselves.

Every sin has brokenness (a heart wound) behind it. My advice to you is to ask the Lord to expose the root cause (heart wound) that is causing you to sin (in the area you said you are struggling with). When He does so, forgive those who hurt you, ask God to forgive you for your sinful responses to this hurt (we are responsible for our actions), and forgive yourself. Ask Him to bring healing into that area of your heart. Ask Him to bring that/those broken memory(ies) to death on the cross of Christ and that He resurrect new life in you. He will be faithful to do so.

Keep in mind, though, that God will work gently and patiently. The more painful/sensitive the wound the more gently and patiently the Lord will work. He is the Great Physician. I mean this to say, don't get discouraged if things do not happen in your time frame. Healing of the heart is a very delicate process. The Lord will not force or rush healing because it will do more damage then good. Trust Him that He knows what He's doing.

Also, you seem to be struggling with condemnation and shame. Condemnation never lets us us be free (it's a prison) and is used by Satan to separate us from God because we feel so awful we don't want to be near the Lord.

Look at what the Lord says about our sins:

<< Hebrews 8:12 >>

New International Version (©1984)
For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."

New Living Translation (©2007)
And I will forgive their wickedness, and I will never again remember their sins."

English Standard Version (©2001)
For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more.â€

<< Psalm 103:12 >>

New International Version (©1984)
as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us.

New Living Translation (©2007)
He has removed our sins as far from us as the east is from the west.

English Standard Version (©2001)
as far as the east is from the west, so far does he remove our transgressions from us.

Here's a little story I once read in a devotional (forgive me if I completely butcher it):

A man was having a hard time with condemnation. He had the tendency of repeatedly asking for forgiveness over the same sin. One day at the airport, he again asked the Lord "Please forgive me for my sin of X today." In a powerful experience he heard the Lord reply to Him: "What sin?" and Heb. 8:12 popped into his head. This experience was just what he needed to open his eyes and overcome the condemnation he was experiencing. "For My yolk is easy and My burden is light" Matthew 11:30)

As far as shame. Shame also separates us from Christ. Shame tells us that who we are in our being is "bad, disgusting, gross, stupid, etc" (place whatever word you need to in there). This is not from God, holy shame (proper guilt that leads to repentance that leads to life -2 Cor. 7:10) convicts us and sends us to the Lord, unholy shame keeps us from the Lord. The acts we commit can be bad or gross, but who we are in our being is not. If we think we are bad in our being then we hide from God because we don't want Him to "see" us. (Adam and Eve hid from the Lord in the garden because of shame- Genesis 3:8)

Here is another verse regarding shame that you should memorize:

<< 1 John 1:9 >>

New International Version (©1984)
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

New Living Translation (©2007)
But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness.

English Standard Version (©2001)
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

The Blood of Christ cleanses us and makes us acceptable to stand before the presence of the Holy of Holies. His purity and righteousness is what the Lord sees when He looks at us.

CONTINUED BELOW...

 

[theLords]

CONTINUED FROM ABOVE...

Here are some other rhetorical questions for you to consider (you don't have to answer these): Do you believe God is Good? (Matthew 7:9) Often times when we struggle with asking or receiving anything from God this may be a root issue. What were your parents like (especially your father) growing up? What was/is your relationship with them like? We tend to look at God through the eyes we look at our parents with. If one has an absent father they will think God will abandon them like their earthly father. If one has an abusive father they will think God will abuse them the same way, etc. etc.

These are all things for you to consider and take to the Lord. I pray that the Lord continuous to help you overcome. You despise sin and you are seeking the Lord, you are on the right path! "Weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning" Psalm 30:5

Like Handy said, get into the Word (Bible)! It is the way God will speak to you to help you overcome your problems!

Also, don't forget God's promise:

<< Isaiah 42:3 >> (cross reference: Matthew 12:20)

New International Version (©1984)
A bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out. In faithfulness he will bring forth justice;

New Living Translation (©2007)
He will not crush the weakest reed or put out a flickering candle. He will bring justice to all who have been wronged.

English Standard Version (©2001)
a bruised reed he will not break, and a faintly burning wick he will not quench; he will faithfully bring forth justice.

This is you:

<< Psalm 51:17 >>

New International Version (©1984)
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise.

New Living Translation (©2007)
The sacrifice you desire is a broken spirit. You will not reject a broken and repentant heart, O God.

English Standard Version (©2001)
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise.

God loves you. He wants to heal you and see you set free. All you have to do is give Him the permission to do so.

Sorry for this long post, God bless you!

***Legal Disclaimer:All Bible verses that do not have translation references were quoted from paraphrased memory***

 

[theLords]

PS: can anyone help me remember the verse where Paul says "I do the things I don't want to do, and don't do the things I want to do" That is the gist of it, but I can't remember where it's located!

 

[pjt]

Hi Josh, welcome to the forum!


As a Christian, you should desire to read God's word. I understand that you seem confused regarding the Bible and even leery of reading it. But, I gain from your post that part of the problem is that you are falling into a very, very common error: Reading what others have to say regarding the Bible, and not reading the Bible for yourself.

You also seem to be feeling the conflict that comes from a new life in Christ as well, the conflict of our old sinful nature and our new desire to life a holy life unto the Lord. You're not alone in this desire to do right, then the falling into sin...even the apostle Paul went through this. As a matter of fact, you can take a kind of comfort in the conflict...it you were not born of God, it would hardly matter to you if you sinned or not.

Eternal security versus the loss of salvation is an on-going debate within the Church which most likely will not be resolved anytime soon. However, if you are in agreement with God that your sin is exactly that: sin...and that you truly do desire to do the right thing, but fail in your ability to do so and confess this...you can be sure that God forgives you. As time goes by, if we continue our walk in the Spirit, certain sins will just fall by the wayside. Other things might represent a life-long temptation that needs to be daily brought to the cross. But, again, this is normal for all Christians. Frankly, I always suspect the ones who will state emphatically that they never sin.

As John tells the church "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us." 1 John 1:8-10

The key isn't to claim to never sin, nor just give up and say, "Hey, I can't help it" but rather to agree with God that our sin is wrong, to confess to Him and ask forgiveness for it.

I truly do encourage you to read your Bible. Read it, and prayerfully ask the Lord to guide you through it. There is no "right" or "wrong" way to read through the Scriptures, but for new Christians, I always suggest reading first the Gospel of John, then the other three Gospels. Why the Gospel of John first....simple prejudice really, I was saved reading the Gospel of John and to this day feel that it is the Gospel that most brings out Who Jesus is to us on a very individual level.

Handy said precisely what I wanted to say especially about Bible reading. Don`t focus on what others write. You`ll get a million opinions. Read the Bible yourself and let the Holy Spirit speak to you, guide you, and convict you. He will! You might want to keep a notebook and pen with you as your read and write down the things that stand out to you. You can also highlight them in your Bible for quick and easy reference. I also recommend if you find a scripture that really speaks to you or touches your heart, put it to memory.

By the way, welcome!!!! It`s good to have you here.

 

[handy]

PS: can anyone help me remember the verse where Paul says "I do the things I don't want to do, and don't do the things I want to do" That is the gist of it, but I can't remember where it's located!

I was thinking of that very passage, Lords!

Romans 7:14-20
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
18For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.
19For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

 

[AKJVReader]

Hi Josh,

To tell you the truth i struggled with sin alot myself after i became a Christian.
Then i began reading the Authorized King James Bible alot and the Holy Spirit really changed me. I gave up playing video games, watching tv and listening to rock music and i changed to a better Church. I became convinced that the AKJV Bible is wonderful. I'm not perfect but i'm far far better thanks to God answering my prayers. There will be issues when your flesh wants to do something but your spirit doesn't.

I recommend Galatians 5 to you:
[FONT=arial,helvatica]22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [/FONT][FONT=arial,helvatica]
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. [/FONT]

I recommend that you pray to God, that you ask Him to show you the truth in the Word, and ask God that the Word and Spirit will change you.

I also recommend that you listen to some great sermons, my favorite preachers are Pastor Mike Hoggard at http://www.mikehoggard.com and
Bryan Delinger at
SermonAudio.com - Sermons on kjvbbf.com

Blessings

 

[Forgiven83]

Hello Josh, and welcome to CFn.

My advice to confess your sins, and than glory in what Jesus has done for us.
I Corinthians 1:29-31
29) That no flesh should glory in His presence.
30) But of Him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sancification, and redemption.
31) That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
None of us can ever be without sin, but we can be righteous though Christ Jesus.

Romans 7:24-25
24) O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[Riverwolf]

Welcome Josh, those answers above are a tough act to follow!
Sometimes it does seem that my prayers for myself and for others are for the same things all over again. But he does understand. I encourage you to use the search function here as I do and you will find many answers to your questions. Also post in the forums.