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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Historical Refrences in the Bible
- Thread starter In Christ
- Start date
ColdBlooded
Member
I would recommend that you don't. Many atheists drew their own conclusions, as opposed to being taught by their parents, so they have their own reasoning for why they don't believe.
I know a big part of Christianity is faith, and as an atheist the concept of knowing without truly knowing was contradictory to how I thought.
So my advice would be stick to the facts about the bible.
Biblical references that are grounded in demonstrable proof.
Perhaps you could find remnants of Noah's Arc or fossilised footprints where the waters were parted.
Things like that appeal to the purely materialistic world-view that many atheists have.
I know a big part of Christianity is faith, and as an atheist the concept of knowing without truly knowing was contradictory to how I thought.
So my advice would be stick to the facts about the bible.
Biblical references that are grounded in demonstrable proof.
Perhaps you could find remnants of Noah's Arc or fossilised footprints where the waters were parted.
Things like that appeal to the purely materialistic world-view that many atheists have.
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Atothetheist
Guest
Yup, those are good.but if you say "Oh, look we found a city using the Bible, therefore it is true." Makes me facepalm.
Listen, If it is city referances that have been confirmed, don't bother. They are not even evidence that the bible is mystically or spiritually correct, AT ALL.
My mom got an interesting DVD from arkdiscovery.com that shows a lot of the places in the Bible, such as the site of the Red Sea crossing, Sodom & Gomorrah, Mt. Sinai, and the Ark of the Covenant.
I saw part of the DVD, but not the whole thing. They show video footage of them going to the sites and difference evidences. Pretty interesting.
They do say that a lot of the sites that you'd be shown on a tour to Israel are actually wrongly labelled. Such as, the hill where Jesus was crucified--"And when they were come unto a place called Golgotha, that is to say, a place of a skull,"~Matthew 27:33 They showed what they said was the actual site, and part of it was the shape of a skull.
And that makes sense, but IDK. As interesting as it is, I can't help but take the DVD with a grain of salt. But it's at least worth checking out, no? *shrug*
If anyone wants to challenge me about it...truthfully, right now I'd be the wrong person. Still learning and don't know enough to debate the thing.
I saw part of the DVD, but not the whole thing. They show video footage of them going to the sites and difference evidences. Pretty interesting.
They do say that a lot of the sites that you'd be shown on a tour to Israel are actually wrongly labelled. Such as, the hill where Jesus was crucified--"And when they were come unto a place called Golgotha, that is to say, a place of a skull,"~Matthew 27:33 They showed what they said was the actual site, and part of it was the shape of a skull.
And that makes sense, but IDK. As interesting as it is, I can't help but take the DVD with a grain of salt. But it's at least worth checking out, no? *shrug*
If anyone wants to challenge me about it...truthfully, right now I'd be the wrong person. Still learning and don't know enough to debate the thing.
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stovebolts
Member
First, know your material before you start trying to defend it or you'll end up looking and playing the fool.
Check out some of Cyberjosh's work in this small and often neglected forum. He dig's into the tough stuff that most arent even aware of.
http://www.christianforums.net/forumdisplay.php?f=45
Ooh! Why didn't I see that before?
stovebolts
Member
Most people don't ;)
Josh is well on his way to becoming a future scholar. You will find his work pleasing and well informed.
ColdBlooded
Member
Well, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
And while places may be congruent with the bible, that (Scientifically) says nothing to the implications of a deity or, by extension, the deity itself.
What people take for proof is completely different from what justifies truth.
But then again it all comes back to faith doesn't it?
Most people don't need empirical evidence to justify their belief, it's simply what they believe and there is nothing that can sway them otherwise.
That's why it's a fruitless thing to debate theists.
Let them be happy and unmolested by debates and arguments and hope they extend the same courtesy to us.
It's about peace and harmony, not an endless race to see who's right.
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Atothetheist
Guest
I am more than happy to let them be, if they extent the same courtesy to me. Or stop trying to stop other people from doing whatever they want to based on their beliefs.
ColdBlooded
Member
I agree to this if we were on the street or in a McDonald's. But we are on a Christian forum so it's kinda our position to be reserved and lenient about our position and allow them to have the right of way.
It would be like me going into a church and handing out American Atheists pamphlets and saying "You have to respect my position, I'm not hurting anyone after all".You may not, but we're on their turf, we are their guests, so it's best to bow first.
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AlexBC
Guest
In all fairness to those who don't believe, we have no extra-biblical, contemporary historical references to Jesus. Even Tacitus and Josephus were writing about Jesus a long time after the fact.
I don't blame anyone who has a tough time. And I think the problem here is the word "preach". That's never a word people like to hear. I prefer to relay the word of jesus (^_^)
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AlexBC
Guest
Yeeeeah.....that's not the answer. Arguing with a doubter from the faith angle is pointless because that's why they doubt in the first place.
farouk
Member
AlexBC:
But the believer needs to make it clear that he or she is not interested in wasting breath on someone's series of doubts. Faith begins with God, not the unbeliever's excuses.
The witness of God's Word, inspired by the Spirit, and the Word's central message of the Cross of Christ, needs to be seen and understood to take priority over the unbeliever's going round in circles of doubt.
stovebolts
Member
Wow, you certainly are one of a kind. Wish more held your attitude from both sides of the fence.
I would only add that I see no reason to exclude the Bible as a reliable source to the existence of a historical Jesus. Even modern day orthodox Jews don't disclaim Yeshua as one who came in the flesh about 2000 years ago.
ColdBlooded
Member
Most of the research I've done has been fairly conclusive to the notion that Jesus very well existed.
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AlexBC
Guest
You conducted? Personally? I'm interested in this. Can you give us some of the best pieces of evidence?
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AlexBC
Guest
You can't really say outright that the Bible is a "reliable" historical source for the existence of Jesus. I still think we need to find extra-biblical accounts of Jesus' life to truly say the Bible is reliable.
ColdBlooded
Member
I think you may of misunderstood. I meant not of his miracles or actions, simply that he was an actual person who walked the earth at some point.
Texts of his (Supposed) executioners were mixed. Crucifixions were not uncommon in those days and torture preceding a summery execution were an almost everyday event.
His execution came on behalf of the Pontius Pilate, the Roman Prefect section who was executed for heresy. His execution was documented and most historians agree he existed. It's not hard to research at all. Wikipedia has an entire section dedicated to simply his actual existence.