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History important

Jim Parker said:
Are you claiming that they all preach the same Gospel?
Do Calvinists and non-Calvinists preach the same Gospel? No
Do Southern Baptists and Pentecostals teach the same Gospel? No
Is the Gospel preached by the Salvation Army the same as the Prosperity Gospel? No
Do sacramental and non sacramental denominations preach the same gospel? No
Do dispensational and non dispensational denominations preach the same Gospel? No
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Perhaps the definition of Gospel is in order and then reassess our comments. We can then opine on who responds to not acknowledging the truth of the Scriptures quoted below. As a preamble, it is clear faith significantly implies faithfulness.

Luke 24:

44 Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.” 45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.

46 Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And you are witnesses of these things. 49 Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.”

1 Corinthians 15:

15 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.


3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.


9 For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. 11 Therefore, whether it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.


Acts 15:

6 Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter. 7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”


Romans 5:

6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

2 Corinthians 5:

13 For if we are beside ourselves, it is for God; or if we are of sound mind, it is for you. 14 For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; 15 and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.

16 Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.


20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. 21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Titus 2:

11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.

1 Peter 1:

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.


6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.

Romans chapters 6-8

1 Peter 1:

22 Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, 23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 24 because

“All flesh is as grass,
And all the glory of man as the flower of the grass.
The grass withers,
And its flower falls away,
25 But the word of the Lord endures forever.”

Now this is the word which by the gospel was preached to you.

Romans 10:

5 For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, “The man who does those things shall live by them.” 6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down from above) 7 or, “‘Who will descend into the abyss?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Ephesians 2:

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

 
Jim Parker said:
The divisions are based on some variation in theology or ecclesiology or just rebelliousness.
The point is that Jesus desired unity in His kingdom. (John 17:20-21)
If you think that being in open rebellion against Jesus' expressly spoken desire is something to chuckle about, then perhaps a serious evaluation to your level of commitment to Jesus' words may be in order.

Ah! Of course! Those damned roaming KATH-licks! You can't take anything they say seriously because they're all hell-bound idol worshipers.
Please reserve your anti-RC religious bigotry conversation for your coffee klotch.

Apparently you do not realize that the names of the churches are irrelevant to the point.

Are you claiming that they all preach the same Gospel?
Do Calvinists and non-Calvinists preach the same Gospel? No
Do Southern Baptists and Pentecostals teach the same Gospel? No
Is the Gospel preached by the Salvation Army the same as the Prosperity Gospel? No
Do sacramental and non sacramental denominations preach the same gospel? No
Do dispensational and non dispensational denominations preach the same Gospel? No

STRAW MAN LOGICAL FALLACY ALERT!!!
No one is proposing that pretense other than you.
While it can be demonstrated that Gospels preached by various denominations do, in fact differ, that is a misrepresentation of my position.

The vast multitude of divisions which are characteristic of the Protestant churches is contrary to the expressly stated desire of the Lord of Lords and King of Kings.
The vast multitude of divisions which are characteristic of the Protestant churches, which you so happily defend, is a dividing of the Kingdom of God so that it is brought to desolation and has as its impetus the sinful rebelliousness of man with the result of Christianity becoming more and more secular and irrelevant.
As a "civil war buff" I would hope you might be aware of the consequences of the division of a kingdom. The wars of the Reformation lasted over 100 years and cost millions of lives.
But, as a Christian, you think divisions are no big thing.
Curious.

Mat 12:25a But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation..."

Apparently you support that plan.


iakov the fool


DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.
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The Gospel = Jesus saves. That's about it. I don't think God is as concerned with our differences as He is our unity. No one has a perfect theology. No one. That is my strong view. I attend a Baptist church but I identify as a follower of Jesus. Jesus came to save the lost of which I was one. To me, which Church is the "right" church is rather pointless. What others believe I'll leave up to them. I don't follow a church, I follow Christ. And we are the Church. The collective followers of Christ. It's His Church and it's not up to me to decide who's in or out.
 
IF this forum morphs in to a bashing of ANY church that falls under the umbrella of Christianity i will shut it down..
History not supposed history, that is not complementary is not bashing.. Every group of people has bad apples..
Admin posting.. so do not reply to this post in this thread..
 
dirtfarmer here
According to 1 Corinthians 15, the gospel is, "Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried and that he rose again the third day." Faith in that is where salvation is given.

It doesn't matter which congregation that you belong to, if you don't believe those 3 things, you are not saved. Water baptisms and the formula you use is not part of salvation, neither is speaking in tongues or not speaking in tongues. These are doctrines of the church, not doctrines of salvation.

Most churches believe that we are to worship on Sunday, but I find that we are to worship every day not just Sundays. There is the OSAS doctrine and then there are those that believe salvation can be lost.

I like what Reba posted about; "any Church that falls under umbrella of Christianity", of which there are many. But they all have to believe the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.
 
dirtfarmer said:
dirtfarmer here
According to 1 Corinthians 15, the gospel is, "Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried and that he rose again the third day." Faith in that is where salvation is given.

It doesn't matter which congregation that you belong to, if you don't believe those 3 things, you are not saved. Water baptisms and the formula you use is not part of salvation, neither is speaking in tongues or not speaking in tongues. These are doctrines of the church, not doctrines of salvation.

Most churches believe that we are to worship on Sunday, but I find that we are to worship every day not just Sundays. There is the OSAS doctrine and then there are those that believe salvation can be lost.

I like what Reba posted about; "any Church that falls under umbrella of Christianity", of which there are many. But they all have to believe the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.
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I would add the Bodily Resurrection of Jesus Christ.

There are false teachers in some Christian churches preaching that Jesus's resurrection was spiritual and not Bodily. One such heretic is named Bishop Spong.
 
Pegasus said:
I would add the Bodily Resurrection of Jesus Christ.

There are false teachers in some Christian churches preaching that Jesus's resurrection was spiritual and not Bodily. One such heretic is named Bishop Spong.
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Sorry....laughing so hard I can hardly type.....where is this turkey from?.....
 
The topic is.....

So much of the Bible is history. Valuable lesson are learned from history. And it is written that there is nothing new under the sun. So isn't one of the lesson we should learn from the Bible is that history is important to learn from.

I admittedly don't look at history as much as I should. Yet still I am amazed that history is not looked at much in church. Even most of the sermons I hear at church are not presented in a form that shows who the history in the bible is important to us today. And rarely do I hear Christian history since the Bible presented at all. It is as if it is not something pastors and preacher are not expected to know. I find it a bit sad because God is always at work, so we can learn from Him by seeing what He has done.
 
K2CHRIST said:
Even most of the sermons I hear at church are not presented in a form that shows who the history in the bible is important to us today.
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K2Christ,
What you have said above is in a large part what ia wrong. that and today we have this New Version of the New Testament Christians. Let me, first, give you my understanding of the scriptures: Jesus taught, directly from the Bible, actyually scrolls that after translations we can carry around today. There was no New Testament, there were and there are commentators. Today we have their works available to us in Commentaries but for what? If a man carries a modern copy of the Bible, he or she has the very best commentary ever recorded.

Somewhere around the late sixteemth or the eatly seventeenth centuries, men began to translate those scrolls, Old and New Tesaments. so where is this comentary? It is the New Testament! To a large extent, even the Four Gospels. You see, in the Bible, the first sixty-nine books of the Christian version some of the books, because of their length, have been split in two but that is the Bible used by Jesus when He taught.

Now the trouble with the Church: there should be no preacher or teacher with out a good Bible, one that is extensively cross referenced. Those addresses along the center or along the edges of the verses tell a body what that, particular, verse is related to and beside that address will be the next related verse. If we look at and follow the Chain References we will allways find it is in the end commentinng on the Old testament, so you see, if you have no idea what ity is commenting on the comment is of zero value to anyone and I've never found one of these later day New Testament nor any of these New Covenent Chistians that have been taught to use their Bible in a scritural fashion.

The issue of never opening and reading from the Bible is summed up as they might be great Motovisioal Speakers but (in my best Texan) They ain't none of God's Preachers! we have a few of those here in Texas.

I pray my rant on what is the Bible and what isn't will be of use to your study. MKay God bless.
 
reba said:
The topic is.....

So much of the Bible is history. Valuable lesson are learned from history. And it is written that there is nothing new under the sun. So isn't one of the lesson we should learn from the Bible is that history is important to learn from.

I admittedly don't look at history as much as I should. Yet still I am amazed that history is not looked at much in church. Even most of the sermons I hear at church are not presented in a form that shows who the history in the bible is important to us today. And rarely do I hear Christian history since the Bible presented at all. It is as if it is not something pastors and preacher are not expected to know. I find it a bit sad because God is always at work, so we can learn from Him by seeing what He has done.
Click to expand...
A wonderful work of scholarship on the History of the Christian church was written by Phillip Schaff at the end of the 19th century. He wrote his book during the controversial time of liberal Christian theology centered in the Tubingen. He spends a lot of time addressing and refuting liberal claims.

His volumes of works can be viewed free here:

http://www.ccel.org/s/schaff/history/About.htm

One of those works like the Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire where you can jump in at any point and read what most interests you.

I believe st_worm2 was fond of Schaff's works too.
 
:agreed .. I love Schaff's works, especially his 8 Volume History of the Christian Church :)
 
reba said:
The first half of the Bile is church history ( IMO) as is whole big bunch of the second half... Sadly i agree Church history is ignored... We tend to use history to discredit some groups ... WBC will be remembered.. :sad
Some members here have a good deal of knowledge of Church history..

When saying Church i am speaking of His Body not any one denomination. Yet understanding the individual histories make up the complete..
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WBC?
What does that mean?
It's not in your glossary.
 
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