Homosexuality, is it Biblical, or not.

[evenifigoalone]

I’m sure you have. Christians, even if they don’t engage in sin, should never affirm sin or a sinful lifestyle in others. In the same way, Christians can’t be pro-abortion.


A suggestion then, as gently as I can: maybe stop posting about it publicly here since these are Christian forums. You will receive pushback, and you should; it is the loving thing to do.

Sorry, but generally speaking I will engage when I have the energy and spoons to do so. (Which isn't most of the time.)

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

On the contrary, as a gay person who was previously "anti-homosexual" (for lack of less explanation-involved terminology), we could argue that my being anti-homosexual was a compromise I made to gain the praise of my Christian peers. Studying the Bible in its original language and arriving at affirming theology gets me no love whatsoever from other Christians, whom I primarily associate with. I have long had little interest in gaining favor from non-Christians.

Why do you have to identify yourself as a “gay person” over everything else? Why not your familial relation, job title, birthplace, community, talent, accomplishment, status, possessions, personality, or your appearance, stuffs like that? Why do you define yourself by “homosexuality”, which is neither “born” or “made”, neither “pride” nor “shame”, but a tragedy that may have been caused by hormonal pollutants in the water? You see, this is what I hate the most in western culture - identity politics. It ruins everything.

 

[Rookie]

Valid. I am not here to tell people to go date the same sex if they are so inclined, if they are convinced that it's wrong. I think sticking to one's convictions is important. Do not go against your convictions and what you believe is wrong, without some serious prayer, reflection, and God-seeking.

Unlike most I've encountered on that side, I do not see this in the LGBT movement. Credit to where credit is due.

I don't think that's the case. There's a lot in the Bible that is absolutely crystal clear, but there's also areas that are very much subject to translation errors and things that get lost across cultural barriers. Consider the verses about gendered hair length, even many evenaglicals and very theologically conservative people will tell you it's an odd cultural thing and doesn't apply to us today.

With respect, look again at the issues debated. Women preaching, men with long hair (I have long dreds, but had em since birth so wasn't rlly my choice), homosexuality, pornography, masturbation, tithing, and many others are motivated by desire. Women want to be above men, as is the curse of Even in Genesis 3 (now I'm not sure if women can preach or not, so I can't say), people want to have sex with whomever or with whatever they choose, people don't want to give their money, it's only debated because it encroaches on people's desire. Whether its gay sex or a pro-gay ideology, if people generally liked Scriptures condemnation of homosexuality, no one would debate it.

Like I said, no one is debating, "love thy neighbor", even atheists use it. No one is debating, "Watch over the poor & widows", or "you reap what you sow", or "for God so loved the world". No one is debating parts of Scripture that don't make them sacrifice anything. That's the point. Now you are different and I recognize that, but the grand consensus says otherwise.

But there are core beliefs that remain timeless, among these the Trinity and Jesus's divinity.

Because that doesn't call anyone to give up, sacrifice, mortify, or stop doing something they like. Even nonbelievers pray (a lot of the time), and even like America, atheists and Christians alike love the, "God Bless America", but no one likes, "Repent America, for the Kingdom of God is at hand". Hence the feel-good, itchy ear gospel. I would even go to the lengths and assume, if you were infatuated with men and not women, you wouldn't be looking to affirm homosexuality in the first place.

The acceptance or rejection of homosexuality is not a core doctrine, though, and I believe there is room for disagreement while maintaining fellowship on this and many other matters.

To each their own, just be sure God agrees with that, and we all must beware of committing the most easy yet deceptive idolatry, formulating a God in our own conscience that agrees whatever we corely believe in, encourages us to pursue our desires, and is so soft & cuddly we can snuggle up to Him.

As my first lady says, "God is love, He is also Judgement & Holiness".

 

[evenifigoalone]

Why do you have to identify yourself as a “gay person” over everything else? Why not your familial relation, job title, birthplace, community, talent, accomplishment, status, possessions, personality, or your appearance, stuffs like that? Why do you define yourself by “homosexuality”, which is neither “born” or “made”, neither “pride” nor “shame”, but a tragedy that may have been caused by hormonal pollutants in the water? You see, this is what I hate the most in western culture - identity politics. It ruins everything.

Who says it's over "anything else"? I'm many things, gay is one of them. I'd actually place my autism label over most others, as being autistic affects every area of my life.
I don't see how this post of yours brings anything of value to the discussion at all. Your personal taste or distaste has nothing to do with anything. And neither does what labels I use or their supposed hierarchy.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Because that doesn't call anyone to give up, sacrifice, mortify, or stop doing something they like. Even nonbelievers pray (a lot of the time), and even like America, atheists and Christians alike love the, "God Bless America", but no one likes, "Repent America, for the Kingdom of God is at hand". Hence the feel-good, itchy ear gospel. I would even go to the lengths and assume, if you were infatuated with men and not women, you wouldn't be looking to affirm homosexuality in the first place.

That's a bold assumption on your part.

I assure you that there is much in scripture that is inconvenient aside from just supposed homosexual banning and supposed women preacher banning. To suggest otherwise is to do the faith a discredit.
Giving up the love of material possessions, for one. That's a tough one, and something that the evangelical crowd hardly addresses - if at all!

Indeed, even when people are caught up in sins that evangelicals do absolutely hate, like adultery, let me tell you: to their credit, evangelicals do take adultery seriously! But even then, they take it far and away less seriously than a person simply saying "I'm gay". The response when someone is found out to be cheating on their spouse is all too often a slap on the wrist compared to someone being found to be homo. Hint: one of these things hurts everyone involved, the other does not.

People may argue "God set up heterosexuality for families" and true, but what does this have to do with the price of tea in China. God also made some people "eunuchs" and these people and others are called to celibacy for the glory of God. Clearly that does not fit in with the whole heterosexuality shtick, and yet it is clearly something God blesses. If homosexuality was truly an abomination, you would also think that it would not be present in the animal kingdom.... yet many animal species display homosexual behavior and even mate for life in some cases. (Penguins.)

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Yes, it's me again, posting another thread that may or may not spark some conversation. But here I wanted to bring both cases for and against homosexuality as unbiasedly as I can, and present the evidence, where each side falters and whatever conclusion you make is for you to make. I'm pro-information, then let the people decide. (I know people get intimidated at long readings, so I'll make it short as possible,)

You should ask yourself where is your faith in the word of God, why are you even bothered to question this? Homosexuality is a sinful lifestyle, NOT an identity! People don't need information, they need a paradigm shift, they need to get rid of these degrading labels and identities. Instead of "I'm fat, I'm diabetic, I'm autistic, I'm allergic, I'm an addict, I'm gay," etc. say I HAVE fat, I HAVE diabetes, I HAVE autism, I HAVE an allergy, I HAVE an addiction, I HAVE a same sex orientation or homosexual tendency. Don't let this sick culture define you, and don't give in to it, get rid of this victimhood mentality, our only identity is children of God in Christ!

 

[evenifigoalone]

Some people do prefer "identity first" language in regards to autism and other disabilities. Others do not. In the end it doesn't matter, a spade is a spade either way.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Frankly the crux of the issue is what does the original manuscripts say, and what we can learn about that with the tools and resources we have today. It's not about what we personally like or dislike.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Some people do prefer "identity first" language in regards to autism and other disabilities. Others do not. In the end it doesn't matter, a spade is a spade either way.

We don't say "I'm American" in my household. We say "I am a person who suffers from the nationality of the USA" /j

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Who says it's over "anything else"? I'm many things, gay is one of them. I'd actually place my autism label over most others, as being autistic affects every area of my life.
I don't see how this post of yours brings anything of value to the discussion at all. Your personal taste or distaste has nothing to do with anything but yourself. And neither does what labels I use or their supposed hierarchy.

That's not my "taste" or "distaste", a tree is known by its fruit, a person is known by their deeds. If you're really of "many things" you've achieved, you would identify yourself with one of them, and neither autism nor homosexuality belongs in that category. Western culture is sick with this victimhood mentality, this is 1984 dystopia - war is peace, slavery is freedom, weakness is strength, and you're not even aware of it as you're in the thick of it.

Let me put it in this way, man. I believe in meritocracy. I don't care about who you are or what you say, I care about what you do and what you know, and what you do and what you know will reflect who you are, and they will validate - or invalidate - what you say.

 

[evenifigoalone]

That's not my "taste" or "distaste", a tree is known by its fruit, a person is known by their deeds. If you're really of "many things" you've achieved, you would identify yourself with one of them, and neither autism nor homosexuality belongs in that category. Western culture is sick with this victimhood mentality, this is 1984 dystopia - war is peace, slavery is freedom, weakness is strength, and you're not even aware of it as you're in the thick of it.

Let me put it in this way, man. I believe in meritocracy. I don't care about who you are or what you say, I care about what you do and what you know, and what you do and what you know will reflect who you are, and they will validate - or invalidate - what you say.

I disagree that we can only identify with achievements. How many people identify with their nationality? A lot. "Proud to be American". That isn't an acheivement. Nationality is simply what part of this giant rock we were born on based on imaginary lines other people made up.

But again, this has nothing to do with the price of tea in China. Frankly, it's way off topic.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Actually, it is worth noting that LGBTQ culture is a direct response to decades of discrimination and actual crimes committed against us. If homosexuality were accepted in society, we wouldn't give it any more fanfare than we give being straight. But since there is a prevalent history of bullying, harassment, hate crime, and general nastiness, we take that and say "you know what? I'm going to be gay even harder now and you can't stop me"
Turns out, even just in general, oppressed people very often take pride in the thing they are oppressed for. It's a way to attempt to control our trauma and build support systems for ourselves.

(So far as being autistic..... I spent years of my life thinking I was a failed normal person until I got diagnosed just before I turned 30. You bet your sweet cinnamon roll that I'm going to take pride in the thing that explains why I struggle so hard in society. Surviving as an autistic person is absolutely an accomplishment.)

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I disagree that we can only identify with achievements. How many people identify with their nationality? A lot. "Proud to be American". That isn't an acheivement. Nationality is simply what part of this giant rock we were born on based on imaginary lines other people made up.

But again, this has nothing to do with the price of tea in China. Frankly, it's way off topic.

People are proud of America only when America stands up to evil and defends righteousness, that is an achievement. When America bows down to evil and oppresses righteousness, people are ashamed of America.

 

[evenifigoalone]

People are proud of America only when America stands up to evil and defends righteousness, that is an achievement. When America bows down to evil and oppresses righteousness, people are ashamed of America.

So you took the time to type this out without understanding how this logic can also apply to other things? Like, I dunno..... achieving things despite having extra barriers in your life (hint: autism), or surviving and even thriving as a sexual minority in a world that hates you and either wants you to pretend to be something you're not or straight up wants you dead in some cases (Uganda)?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Actually, it is worth noting that LGBTQ culture is a direct response to decades of discrimination and actual crimes committed against us. If homosexuality were accepted in society, we wouldn't give it any more fanfare than we give being straight. But since there is a prevalent history of bullying, harassment, hate crime, and general nastiness, we take that and say "you know what? I'm going to be gay even harder now and you can't stop me"
Turns out, even just in general, oppressed people very often take pride in the thing they are oppressed for. It's a way to attempt to control our trauma and build support systems for ourselves.

(So far as being autistic..... I spent years of my life thinking I was a failed normal person until I got diagnosed just before I turned 30. You bet your sweet cinnamon roll that I'm going to take pride in the thing that explains why I struggle so hard in society. Surviving as an autistic person is absolutely an accomplishment.)

Victimhood mentality. Believe it or not, I might have autism as well, I have trouble at talking with people, I'm afraid of socializing, but I never identify myself with it and make excuses, by the strength, courage and confidence God imparted in me, I overcome my fear, look them in the eye and say what I must.

 

[evenifigoalone]

It is worth noting that you're brainwashed by victimhood mentality and cultural Marxism subversion, it's as if the whole world owes you, it's everybody's fault but your own, you just can't take responsibility and move on. Believe it or not, I might be autistic as well, I have trouble at talking with people, I'm afraid of socializing, but I never identify myself with it and make excuses, by the strength, courage and confidence God imparted in me, I overcome my fear, go talk to people and say what I must.

I'm no victim, knowing I'm autistic gives me the knowledge and a way to learn how to improve my life and gives me the tools and language to advocate for myself where needed. If you really think you're autistic, try reading up on stuff. It'll help you improve those areas in which you're struggling. It's not letting go of power, it's empowering. It's not weakness, it's strength.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Carry_Your_Name
Here are two resources off the top of my head that I highly recommend:

Embrace Autism | The ultimate autism resource

Embrace Autism is THE place to find research & experience-based autism content for personal elucidation & empowerment. By autistic people, for autistic people.

embrace-autism.com

Insights of a Neurodivergent Clinician

Providing up to date research and research on autism and ADHD from a neurodivergent affirming perspective.

neurodivergentinsights.com

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

So you took the time to type this out and cannot fathom how this logic can also apply to other things? Like, I dunno..... achieving things despite having extra barriers in your life (hint: autism), or surviving and even thriving as a sexual minority in a world that hates you and either wants you to pretend to be something you're not or straight up wants you dead in some cases (Uganda)?

Nobody hates you more than yourself. You don't like Uganda, you're appalled by its legislation, then get out. I bet you're not typing and posting this in Uganda, do you.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Nobody hates you more than yourself. You don't like Uganda, you're appalled by its legislation, then get out. I bet you're not typing and posting this in Uganda, do you.

I'll pray for you, friend. I'm sorry you're so angry at nothing.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I'm no victim, knowing I'm autistic gives me the knowledge and a way to learn how to improve my life and gives me the tools and language to advocate for myself where needed. If you really think you're autistic, try reading up on stuff. It'll help you improve those areas in which you're struggling. It's not letting go of power, it's empowering. It's not weakness, it's strength.

Here are two resources off the top of my head that I highly recommend:

To be crystal clear, I do NOT think I'm autistic, Satan does. Even if I might have been, I've outgrown it. I'm not living in a 1984 dystopia or "intersectionality" cult where weakness is strength, and victimhood is social currency.