Bible Study HOMOSEXUALITY,THE SIN OF LOT'S DAY

[Freshoil]

The sexual sins Sodom and Gomorrah in Lot's time were so gross that men were driven with a passion not only for their own sex but even became disrespectful to the angels who visited Lot.
It is almost unbelievable in our day how those who reject the sexual laws of God have succeeded in making one of the basest of sexual sins-sodomy-respectable and even acceptable.Just a few years ago Hollywood stars kept their personal sex lives (which brought them to an early death) in the closet.But today homosexuals are out and demanding their rights.What rights do they demand? The right to marry,the right to cohabit with the same sex,the right to teach school,where they could influence young minds,the right to adopt children,the right to serve in the military-and the list goes on.
Even though their dangerous lifestyle can shorten their expected life span by as much as 50 percent,it is considered a hate crime to warn or speak out against it.And discrimination against a homosexual in job selection or dismissal is a violation of the law. If you refuse to rent your home to a homosexual couple,you are a lawbreaker! The secular world has turned the sexual laws of God upside down. A few years ago the American Psychological Association considered homosexuality a mental deficiency; now the APA has endorsed it and proposed that their members no longer urge homosexuals to change their sexual life style.

THE FUTURE IS NOW

We have come to the place where officialdom demands that any sexual urge be permitted,regardless of its effects on marriage,the home,children,the human body,and the increased misery and suicide rate it causes. To them,anything that contributes to reducing the population of traditional moral values.
Until that elite officialdom is changed-and there appears to be no way to make that happen,short of a national spiritual revival-we can have no hope of improvement.
In other words,the moral conditions spoken of in the book of Revelation are already here. We are already living in days like those of Noah and Lot-days our Lord predicted would return just before His return to this earth.

GOD BLESS

 

[KnarfKS]

Is officialdom an actual word?

 

[Rick W]

Appears to be:
some characters were dropped in the copy paste


2 entries found for officialdom.

of·fi·cial ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-fshl)
adj.
Of or relating to an office or a post of authority: official duties.
Authorized by a proper authority; authoritative: official permission.
Holding office or serving in a public capacity: an official representative.
Characteristic of or befitting a person of authority; formal: an official banquet.
Authorized by or contained in the U.S. Pharmacopoeia or National Formulary. Used of drugs.

n.
One who holds an office or position, especially one who acts in a subordinate capacity for an institution such as a corporation or governmental agency.
Sports. A referee or umpire.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[From Middle English, ecclesiastical officer, from Old French, from Latin officilis, an attendant of an office, from officium, duty, service. See office.]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
of·ficial·dom n.
of·ficial·ly adv.

 

[AHIMSA]

What rights do they demand? The right to marry,the right to cohabit with the same sex,the right to teach school,where they could influence young minds,the right to adopt children,the right to serve in the military-and the list goes on.

And discrimination against a homosexual in job selection or dismissal is a violation of the law. If you refuse to rent your home to a homosexual couple,you are a lawbreaker!

My Goodness!! You speak of us almost as if we demand to be treated as human beings? Who would have thought!?....what a terrible....terrible world we live in!! (I hope my sarcasm is noted)

So basically, in your view, gay people should not be allowed to: live together, serve in the military, teach, raise children, have jobs, or rent homes?

This is blatant homophobia. You see homosexuals as nothing more than their sexuality. We always look back on history and grieve at the terrible way we have treated people. ie: black people, native people, females, minorities
A few generations from now, people will look back upon the words that you have spoken, and they will wonder, "How could people have been so cruel?"

and the increased misery and suicide rate it causes.

Do you wonder why so many homosexuals are miserable and suicidal, especially the youth? It isn't because of our sexuality, it is who we are...the only reason it pains us so is because of the way we know society will react to it. So many homosexuals kill themselves before even coming out, because they don't know how to live. They know they can't change themselves, they know that no one will accept them, they know there are people like YOU who say they don't deserve the same rights as everyone else. They feel trapped, they feel alone, they feel worthless and dehumanized...which results in depression and can even lead to suicide.

I must repeat, gay people commit suicide because of the unbearable pressures that society places on them. We are ridiculled, abused, told that we will 'burn for our sin', we are told that we can change, when we know we can't. We are called filthy, dirty, perverted sodomites. Who, under these conidtions, would not feel depressed?

 

[Rick W]

AHIMSA,
I've tried to ask before but maybe it got lost in the shuffle.
No offense to you or anyone ok?
But is it your motivation to convince others that the practice of homosexuality is not a sin?

Curious

 

[AHIMSA]

As a homosexual, I personally know the pain caused by the current Christian belief that I will pay for my sexuality with my soul. So yes, it is my hope that one day, Christianity will stand as a liberator, as religion of freedom and acceptance, rather than an opressor.

I don't know if its realistic to believe that anybody on this website will ever learn to accept homosexuality, if its not something they have already done. At the very least then, I hope the members of the site will learn to speak of homosexuals with respect and learn to see them as people.

I ask you, what benefit is their to a belief, either to God or to Christians, that only hurts, divides and excludes people?

 

[Rick W]

AHIMSA,

But is it your motivation to convince others that the practice of homosexuality is not a sin?

I ask you, what benefit is their to a belief, either to God or to Christians, that only hurts, divides and excludes people?

I think I can assume your question as being affirmative to my question.
Under that assumption I can certainly see a desire to show there is no benefit to a belief, either to God or to Christians, that only hurts, divides and excludes people. In that case it becomes a matter of molding the belief to support an opposing view and that the belief is wrong in the first place as evidenced by your question.

The phrase "that only hurts, divides and excludes people" is an emotion-oriented question. After all, we're speaking of people's feelings. Nobody wants to hurt anybody's feelings for no reason, sounds good to anyone, non-believer or christian. And it can be argued rightfully that Christ loves all men.

There are however, dangers to a course that doesn't examine the ramifications of "not wanting to hurt someone's feelings". So far I have yet to see anyone who is not a christian or medical professional admit there are physical dangers concerning the practice of homosexuality though the data has been posted many, many times. The preference seems to be to either ignore medical science altogether or claim "safe sex" is the answer even in the face of evidence that proves it's not working. Hurt feelings you say? If a lost gamble in a high risk adventure causes pain, suffering or even death then how can that be considered as protecting someone's feelings and those around them? I truly believe those being offered the dice need to know the dangers of rolling a losing combination. The stakes are high, much higher than simply protecting one's feelings.

I'll be blunt. The practice is a very high risk arena. If you choose to play the game and lose you will not be the only one hurt. Lower the risk substantially and seek help as many others before you have done and succeeded. But nobody wants to hear anything about what an ex-gay has to say because they will tell you for a fact it can be done.

Jesus said forgive them for they know not what they do. Forgiveness also encompasses the things people do knowingly. But it's not a license to as you please, especially when others are concerned. There's wisdom in the Word. Without the love He has for all there would have been no warnings against something that can put those He loves in jeopardy.

 

[Rick W]

Going further...
You know there is help available IF it is your desire to seek it. If you choose to remain as you are then that's a choice you make. you may say, "Why do I need to change?". Here again a choice is made to remain as you are. Ultimately you do have a choice. Ultimately one chooses to be homosexual or not.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

In no way does Christ teach that you can remain the same and see the kingdom of heaven. He mentions nothing of what you are, what you start out as or where you come from or why. The whole point is change. In like manner it doesn't matter what you are but what you can become. Yes, there's effort, there's always some work done to change the direction of something that's on a path dictated by inertia. That inertia can be the decision to remain on that course, an unwillingness to put forth any effort at all or putting the responsibilty elsewhere by asking, "Why should I change?".
Yes, you have a choice, it's up to you. It's you who decides what you will become, what you will be and where you are going. It's no shame to be but it's a true waste not to become. It takes no effort to continue to be as you are now no matter what it is. That includes addictions, rebellion or emotion upset, uneducated, unmotivated.
What's wrong with being who you are now? Nothing. What's wrong with not attempting to change? Look around you, there are those that may really care for you. Maybe you can see only you, I don't know. But you know as well as I that the practice comes with a much greater risk. You've heard it before, seen it, read it... know it.

Do yourself the justice to become the person God meant you to be. You're worth it. Become a new creation being born again into a life you were meant to lead. He'll not burden you with more than you can bear for through Christ is the strength to prevail, through Christ is the means of change, to be born again.

 

[AHIMSA]

I know that I truly began the path, the one that will transform me to the person God wants me to be, the moment I left Christianity and admitted my sexuality to myself.

I have experienced God, and I know where he is leading me. I find it interesting that Christians think they can posess a divine mandate and tell gay people that 'they can change' when they have told for a very long time that they can not.

I find it interesting that Christians think they can posess a divine mandate and tell homosexuals that the relationship they are in are not 'really love', but only of lust.

I find it interesting that Christians think they can posess a divine mandate and tell people who claim to know and love God, that "God will not accept them as they are", when that person has experienced otherwise

I find it interesting that Christians can take an ancient document, call it perfect and holy, and then use it to justify some of the most oppressive actions that history has ever witnessed.


Yes, STDs are much more rampant in the homosexual community. I suspect that is because the problem of promusicuity. To many people, it seems that homosexuals are obsessed with "sex! sex!sex!", more so than heterosexual society.

Do you wonder why this is? It is because society has forced the homosexual to identify himself on the sole basis of his sexuality. A heterosexual is a person, but a homosexual is a fag. Homosexuals are pressured to identify themselves on the basis of sexuality, for it is the thing in which society can not see past.

The reason, in my opinion, that homosexuals appear to be so sex obsessed and promiscuis is because it is the counter-action against a life time of oppression. It is 'breaking free' from the binds that society imposed upon them. So, understandably, STD's would transmit and be much more rampant among the homosexual community.

 

[Rick W]

I find it interesting that Christians ....
I find it interesting that Christians ....
I find it interesting that Christians ....

Well, ok.
1) Non-believers don't like what christians say because of the "hate", not the love that the bible says.
2) Non-believers don't like what christians say if it's said in love, not the "hate" as in #1
3) Non-believers don't like what christians say if it's said with data from highly respected medical institutions.
4) Non-believers don't like what christians say if it's something quoted from scripture.

What non-believers want is unconditional capitulation from the christian to embrace the non-believer's opinion to be exactly like them.

Well, I was exactly like them. Totally. But I've tasted the sweetness of true freedom. I can never go back. Ever.
One adage rings true through all generations..

"It's not what you know but who you know".

 

[AHIMSA]

You really don't address my issues. For example, two homosexuals can exist in a loving relationship. Yet many Christians will profess that this is a relationship built on lust rather than love.

I don't know how old you are, or if you are married. But imagine you are married, and then someone comes up to you and says "leave your wife. You don't love her, you are only in it for the sex."

How would you respond? I suspect you would be outraged, yet thats what many Christians say about homosexual relationships.

I do believe the problem that many non-believers have with Christianity have to do with the God that is portrayed, a God who, on this site: - endorses war and capital punishment.

Secondly, what kind of God makes people gay, then sends people to hell for the way in which he created them. You say I can change....I tell you that I have tried. Accept the fact. You don't know me....it is unimaginable ignorance to tell me that this is not the way that I have been born...but rather that it has been my choice.

When non-believers look at literalist Christians, they see a God who's message of love is drowned out by his hatred.

Of course non-believers detest scripture. Its a book written thousands of years ago, it has obvious contradictions and says some very bizare things. And then Christians take it, call it perfect, demand that everybody adhere to it and then use it to justify some of history's greatest evils.

Under literalism, unbelievers have lost respect for the Bible, for it attempts to rule our lives from a far.

But I've tasted the sweetness of true freedom. I can never go back. Ever.

The freedom of one person can be the bondage of another. I myself have found true freedom, only when I left Christianity. I do not ask you to do the same, only that you cease the attitudes that are killing your religion.


I hope you can respond to this: It is a fact that the Christian belief that homosexuals will go to hell, a very prevalent belief in many areas, has contributed greatly to the anti-homosexual sentiment that has existed in our scoiety for centuries.

When you tell a gay person, especially a young one, that they must change or burn forever, even when THEY know they can't, it creates incredible pain inside. Have no doubts that the current Christian attitude kills It literaly drives young teenagers to suicide.

You say that Christians can't condone 'sin', they simply can't live with that on their conscience. I ask, how can they live knowing their attitude drives human beings to suicide?

 

[Bob10]

http://www.cemnetwork.com/btw/btwcurrentprograms.php

 

[Heidi]

As a homosexual, I personally know the pain caused by the current Christian belief that I will pay for my sexuality with my soul. So yes, it is my hope that one day, Christianity will stand as a liberator, as religion of freedom and acceptance, rather than an opressor.

I don't know if its realistic to believe that anybody on this website will ever learn to accept homosexuality, if its not something they have already done. At the very least then, I hope the members of the site will learn to speak of homosexuals with respect and learn to see them as people.

I ask you, what benefit is their to a belief, either to God or to Christians, that only hurts, divides and excludes people?

Christianity is freedom! All you have to do is admit your mistakes and Jesus replaces those mistakes with unending love and forgiveness. But of course, if you're under the delusion that you don't make mistakes and that there are not consequences for your actions, I'm afraid you'll find out one day that none of us above God's laws, not even you, my friend.

Homosexuals are no different than the rest of us. They do things right and they do things wrong, just like the rest of us. They can't help their lust any more than I can help my greed, envy, lust, sloth, pride, anger, & gluttony. And that's why Jesus Christ is the only solution to the sin problem. Without his forgiveness, which we don't deserve because we think we know better than he does, we cannot change. We then have no choice but to act on our greed, lust, envy, sloth, pride, anger & gluttony. And this is why we humans will eventually destroy ourselves. If you had children, would you teach them to be as greedy, lustful, proud, envious, angry, slothful and gluttonous as they possible could? :o Why/why not?

 

[Hawkanomics]

Secondly, what kind of God makes people gay, then sends people to hell for the way in which he created them. You say I can change....I tell you that I have tried. Accept the fact. You don't know me....it is unimaginable ignorance to tell me that this is not the way that I have been born...but rather that it has been my choice.

I agree with some of that. Yes, you were born a homosexual. Seeing that homosexuality is a horrible sin to be bound to, and we are ALL born sinners, yes, God created you with this sin already being in your future, waiting to emerge. Nobody's attacking you for being a homosexual, all we want to do is help you. You say you've tried, but what are your motives really? Are they just to shed what the world says about you, or are they really because you want a divine relationship with God? I'm not saying that you have bad motives, it's just something to think about. Being a guy who has had problems with lust like every other male, I understand the bind that it has on your life. It will continue to have this bind as long as you let it. God won't leave you, he's right there with you. Also, no one can tell you that you're not a Christian because you're gay (I dont know if anyone has tried to tell you that, but if they have, they are wrong). You, or any homosexual are no different than a man who is addicted to internet poronography, or masturbation, or whatever type of lust they are stuck to. It's just something you have to go through. If you have never totally given your life to Christ, now's the time. God's got you talking to people about your problem for a reason (although you might not see it as a problem.) The Sovereign God isn't gonna just leave you hanging if he sees you have a sin you are bound to. He's liberated me from my problems, and he'll liberate you from Homosexuality.

In the Love of Christ

 

[AHIMSA]

I appreciate that your thoughtful and encouraging words, however, your arguments are flawed in several instances:

Yes, you were born a homosexual

So, you agree that I have been born this way, which also means that this is not something that I can change. So, right from the off set, you are asking me to turn away from homosexuality. If I do so, if I refuse the urge...that does not mean I will be a heterosexual, which means I will have no choice but to live alone. Basically, I can have no partner for life.

You, or any homosexual are no different than a man who is addicted to internet poronography, or masturbation, or whatever type of lust they are stuck to.

Sexual attraction is normal for human beings. If you are married, do you define your sexual attraction to your husband or wife as lust? When someone pursues a relationship that is absent of love and based soley on sex....then yes, that is a lustful relationship.

Your ultimatum us this: live in a homosexual relationship and live in sin
or
Turn to God and never have a partner for life

You may say, well priests are called to celibacy, or other people are called to live lives alone.

You are heterosexuals. Sit down and imagine that God is telling you to leave your husband or wife because your desire to be with them, both sexually, emotionally ect. is sinful. Would this not seem to be a cruel request?


I don't understand on what basis homosexuality is sinful. I understand that God says its sinful (biblically speaking), but I don't understand where he takes this from. How does a homosexual relationship rooted in love, offend him? What does it do to him?

You may argue that it is not consistent with his purpose for humanity...but then why, considering I am born with this, would he create me with such an obvious defect?

Lastly, what about people who are born with the organs of both sexes? Either way, no matter who they sleep with, they are acting in a homosexual or unnatural relationship because they are both sexually male and female? What do they do?

 

[Hawkanomics]

Well, seeing as I was trying to help you, and you seem to want to do nothing but argue, then I'll let you argue, by yourself. May God bless you.

 

[SputnikBoy]

Well, seeing as I was trying to help you, and you seem to want to do nothing but argue, then I'll let you argue, by yourself. May God bless you.

Sputnik: I don't want to speak for AHIMSA but he DID acknowledge your good intentions, Hawk. No cause to leave him when he perhaps needs us to at least listen to him.

This is a most complex issue and cannot possibly be resolved with condemning Bible verses, not that you, Hawk, were doing this. In fact, the following is not necessarily aimed at you. The FACTS are ...some people were born with homosexual tendencies, take it or leave it. This particular orientation may be problematic for many of them to begin with. On top of that they are also often condemned to hell, not so much by God but by Christians. I think the way you can help, Hawk, is to accept AHIMSA 'as is' and let God do the changing in his life if that's to happen at all.

To the original poster of this thread ...poppycock! Sodom and Gomorrah were NOT destroyed because of homosexuality. This is one of the biggest fibs in Christianity today. God destroyed the twin cities because of SIN ...period! Planet earth will suffer the same consequences as S&G and many present-day Christians who are wagging their finger at others had perhaps best make sure that their own house is in order. God may well be concentrating on the 'heart' condition of his flock much more so than on their genetalia. All of us will continue sinning in some form or another until the day we die. Why? Because we're human.

AHIMSA, my only suggestion to you is that you put your life into the hands of God if that's what you want ...NOT in the hands of people on a forum. The complex machinery that makes you tick is known to God, not to the posters on this thread. I think that many Christians would be amazed at what God knows about THEM as well as what He knows about you. He knows your/our struggles and your/our weaknesses and I don't think that He's frowning on you any more than He is on the rest of us.

Shake off the 'label' that some Christians might have given you, or perhaps you've given yourself the label. Whatever ...hold up your head proudly, and leave your cares with Jesus. The well intentioned patronizing by some of the 'kinder' Christians may well only make you feel slightly better than those who regard homosexuality with venom.

Easier said than done, I know, but you have to get rid of the guilt you may carry in order to be an effective ...whatever it is you choose to be. Are you a Christian? Good. Whatever your sexual orientation, you need not be any less a Christian than me and everyone else on this forum. I'll possibly be criticized for not chiding you 'for your own good' but I can take it. Take care!