How do True believers come to Believe ?

[savedbygrace57]

Ps 80:

17Let thy hand be upon the man of thy right hand, upon the son of man whom thou madest strong for thyself.


18So will not we go back from thee: quicken us, and we will call upon thy name.

19Turn us again, O LORD God of hosts, cause thy face to shine; and we shall be saved.


eph 1:

19And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe according to the working of his mighty power,

Many today in organized religion are totally ignorant as to how and why some come to believe in Christ Jesus, and His Gospel, and others do not.

Believing, contrary to popular opinion is not the result of man exercising his freewill or of his making a choice, but is the result of God's quickening, His Power.

David in our psalms here crys " Quicken us, and we will call upon thy name "


This gives us to understand why it is written acts 2:21

And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

rom 10:13

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

The whosoever must be the quickened, as for it is written ps 80:


18So will not we go back from thee: quicken us, and we will call upon thy name.

Also vs 19

19Turn us again, O LORD God of hosts, cause thy face to shine; and we shall be saved.

The word for quicken is the hebrew word:chayah :

to live, have life, remain alive, sustain life, live prosperously, live for ever, be quickened, be alive, be restored to life or health

a) (Qal)
1) to live
a) to have life
b) to continue in life, remain alive
c) to sustain life, to live on or upon
d) to live (prosperously)
2) to revive, be quickened
a) from sickness
b) from discouragement
c) from faintness
d) from death

Believing and calling upon upon the name of the LORD to be saved are one and the same thing, and if quickening is needed for the one, its needed for the other.

This is True because if we read what Paul writes to the believers in Ephesus, and reminds them how Sovereign mercy found them, observe:

eph 2:

1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

He found them dead in trespasses and sins !

None can believe on or call upon upon the LORD in this condition, Spiritually dead.

This is to be spiritually in a state of alienation from God !

Col 1:21

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works,[Dead in trespasses and sins] yet now hath he reconciled

None can believe or call upon the name of the Lord in this condition !

 

[watchman F]

How do True believers come to Believe ?

By grace
John 1:16 And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace.

All men have been given grace to receive grace, but only a fewwill act upon it.

 

[savedbygrace57]

How do True believers come to Believe ? continued !



as pointed out :


Col 1:21

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works,[Dead in trespasses and sins] yet now hath he reconciled

None can believe or call upon the name of the Lord in this condition !

Man by nature in spiritual death, dead in trespasses and sins, is in alienation from God and positively enemies in our minds by wicked works.

This is confirmed again in eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Alienated from the Life of God, that is dead spiritually.

As such, God quickens, makes them alive, according to His Mighty Power which He wrought in Christ when He raised Him from the Dead, and set Him at His own right hand in the heavenly places.

Let us notice the beginning of eph 1:19, His prayer for those saints was that they may know [ by experience] what is the exceeding greatness of His [ God's ] Power to us-ward " who believe according to the working of His mighty power " Paul is here stating plainly to them how and why they believed; for it was not by their freewill as the lie tells us, but by the working of God's Mighty Power, by His Spiritual Quickening Power, for it produces the same results that David mentioned in ps 80:18b

For as already stated, calling upon the name of the LORD and believing upon His name is one and the same. There is no more cleared evidence scripturally that shows us how one is able to believe on Him, that is Jesus Christ, or believe upon His name i.e

jn 1:

12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

phil 1:

29For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

1 jn 3:23

And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

So all these references and many more about believing on His name or believing on Him, is the result of God's quickening, the working of His Mighty Power, the same exact power that raised up His Son from the dead, because we too were dead eph 2:

1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

 

[savedbygrace57]

How do True believers come to Believe ? continued !



Paul is explaining that the Ephesian saints, the Faithful in Christ Jesus per eph 1:

1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

That they became believers "according to the operation of the Might of His Strength" which He also caused to operate in Christ in raising Him from the dead !

This is because the power He caused to operate in Christ [ The Head], He also causes to operate in the Body, His body [which lay dead in trespasses and sins], each member of His body shall partake of the resurrection power of the Head, for the body must participate in the power that operates in the Head. You see when Christ spoke of raising up the Temple of His body, it prefigured His spiritually dead body consisting of all its members. Jn 2:


19Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

20Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

21But he spake of the temple of his body.

This too shadows forth, His temple or Body members that died in Adam, would be raised up by Him !

For believers are #1 His Body per rom 12:

5So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

1 cor 12:

27Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

eph 1:

22And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

23Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Question : How long has Christ been the Head of His Body ?

col 1:

24Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

And # 2 Believers are His Temple per 1 cor 3:

16Know ye not that ye are the temple of God [or Christ], and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? or Christ because He dwells in believers [ eph 3:17]

eph 2:


20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

1 pet 2:

5Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house [Temple], an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

So the raising up of His Body, His Temple prefigured the raising up [from the dead] His Spiritual Temple or Body. This is also shadowed forth in Isa 26:

19Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise.

Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

Hosea 6:

2After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

All of His elect body, that died in Adam and partake of that death by nature, He will raise up, He will surely revive from the dead.

All this elect body who by nature are dead in sin per eph 2: 1, shall live by His quickening power, and they shall believe by that Power !

 

[mondar]

bump

 

[smaller]

God ELECTS to MOVE the 'god of this world' OFF of their MINDS enough to know that God LOVES them.

The reality is that GOD DOES LOVE all mankind, and in fact DIED and ROSE for ALL mankind. Gods LOVE then is A REALITY for ALL MEN, but MOST are blinded and remain BLINDED by the intentions of God for this exact and Divine Purpose.

Romans 11:

32 For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

The DISOBEDIENCE? What IS that? It is the 'god of this world' WHO PREVIOUSLY BLINDED all believers.

The DISOBEDIENT hatred in men INCLUSIVE of BELIEVERS will tangibly ripple when they read that statement and they will DENY IT within.

IF you were previously an UNbeliever (all of us were) then YOU TOO were blinded by the 'god of this world.'

How far you awaken IS ALSO UP TO GOD. No man can make himself SEE MORE than what GOD ALLOWS.

s

 

[Dennyh]

So if God chooses for me to be saved then I will be saved, period. Correct?

 

[savedbygrace57]

watchman:

All men have been given grace to receive grace,

Not all men, only the church, those chosen in Christ [ their Head] before the world began.

 

[savedbygrace57]

So if God chooses for me to be saved then I will be saved, period. Correct?

Yes. Thats why Christ died to save [ make believers] ! His death has failed of its purpose if does not produce believers in himself.

 

[Dennyh]

So if God chooses for me to be saved then I will be saved, period. Correct?

Yes. Thats why Christ died to save [ make believers] !

Even if I never hear the gospel?

 

[mondar]

God ELECTS to MOVE the 'god of this world' OFF of their MINDS enough to know that God LOVES them.

The reality is that GOD DOES LOVE all mankind, and in fact DIED and ROSE for ALL mankind. Gods LOVE then is A REALITY for ALL MEN, but MOST are blinded and remain BLINDED by the intentions of God for this exact and Divine Purpose.

Romans 11:

32 For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

The DISOBEDIENCE? What IS that? It is the 'god of this world' WHO PREVIOUSLY BLINDED all believers.

The DISOBEDIENT hatred in men INCLUSIVE of BELIEVERS will tangibly ripple when they read that statement and they will DENY IT within.

IF you were previously an UNbeliever (all of us were) then YOU TOO were blinded by the 'god of this world.'

How far you awaken IS ALSO UP TO GOD. No man can make himself SEE MORE than what GOD ALLOWS.

s

The word "all" (pas pasa pan) can be understood not in a universalism sense. This is true if the context is speaking of a group. Romans 11:26 begins speaking of a group of people, and that all of a certain group shall be saved. That group is named as "Israel." So the context is speaking of "all" Israel.
26 and so all Israel shall be saved: even as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer; He shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Two verses later he speaks of how this Israel was an enemy of the Gospel.
28 As touching the gospel, they are enemies for your sake: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sake.

Then in the verse you quote, he speaks of all being shut up unto disobedience. Again, he is speaking in this context of whoever he is calling "Israel" being disobedient. The final "all" in this context cannot be separated from the rest of the context. The term Israel does not have to be repeated everytime Paul uses the term "all." He is not speaking in universalistic terms, but in terms of all within a group.
32 For God hath shut up all unto disobedience, that he might have mercy upon all.

My conclusion is that you have quoted the verse out of context and have not established universalism.

 

[smaller]

The word "all" (pas pasa pan) can be understood not in a universalism sense. This is true if the context is speaking of a group. Romans 11:26 begins speaking of a group of people, and that all of a certain group shall be saved. That group is named as "Israel." So the context is speaking of "all" Israel.
26 and so all Israel shall be saved: even as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer; He shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Two verses later he speaks of how this Israel was an enemy of the Gospel.
28 As touching the gospel, they are enemies for your sake: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sake.

Then in the verse you quote, he speaks of all being shut up unto disobedience. Again, he is speaking in this context of whoever he is calling "Israel" being disobedient. The final "all" in this context cannot be separated from the rest of the context. The term Israel does not have to be repeated everytime Paul uses the term "all." He is not speaking in universalistic terms, but in terms of all within a group.
32 For God hath shut up all unto disobedience, that he might have mercy upon all.

My conclusion is that you have quoted the verse out of context and have not established universalism.

There is no doubt that all men are bound to disobedience. It's called indwelling sin. That IS a 'universal principle' of the Gospel that firmly applies to ALL MEN. All have sinned and have sin. Sin is disobedience. It was not just unbelieving Israel that was/is disobedient. Context does not funnel this matter down to only them when the facts are obviously that all are so bound, by INDWELLING SIN.

It is also a universal principle that the 'god of this world' blinds the minds of unbelievers, all. Even US prior to belief were unbelievers, thusly blinded.

Make of that what you will.

s

 

[savedbygrace57]

Even if I never hear the gospel?

Yes, Hearing the Gospel is Just being informed of the good news of ones salvation eph 1:

13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

It was my salvation before I heard about it.

Me hearing about my salvation, contributed absolutely nothing to Christ saving me by His work on the cross.

 

[Dennyh]

Yes, Hearing the Gospel is Just being informed of the good news of ones salvation eph 1:

13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

It was my salvation before I heard about it.

Me hearing about my salvation, contributed absolutely nothing to Christ saving me by His work on the cross.

So there is no reason(eternally speaking) for people to share the gospel because God will save those He wants to save?

 

[savedbygrace57]

So there is no reason(eternally speaking) for people to share the gospel because God will save those He wants to save?

Did not I just post that the gospel informs some of their salvation ? Is not that a reason to witness the gospel ?

Yes, Hearing the Gospel is Just being informed of the good news of ones salvation eph 1:

13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

So one of the reasons for Gospel witnessing is for God to confirm the testimony of it unto His own.

1 cor 1:

6because our testimony about Christ was confirmed in you.

 

[Dennyh]

Did not I just post that the gospel informs some of their salvation ? Is not that a reason to witness the gospel ?

.

Okay, just making sure we are on the same page.

So for example, if I feel that I am saved and for every method of measuring seem to be saved, yet later in life turn away from God. Then what?

In other words, if I were predestined by God for salvation yet consciously choose to ignore, reject, and hate God am I still predestined to heaven?

If I am not predestined to heaven, yet love God and actively seek a relationship with Him am I still not getting to spend eternity with Him?


These are honest questions and are not meant to insult your beliefs. I am sorry if it has seemed that way.

 

[savedbygrace57]

denn:

In other words, if I were predestined by God for salvation yet consciously choose to ignore, reject, and hate God am I still predestined to heaven?

Yes. You just have not yet been born again while you hate God, reject God and ect.

But born again you will be if you have been predestinated to God for salvation, in Gods own time.

 

[Dennyh]

denn:



Yes. You just have not yet been born again while you hate God, reject God and ect.

But born again you will be if you have been predestinated to God for salvation, in Gods own time.

What if you die hating and cursing God? Can you still be predestined to heaven?

 

[savedbygrace57]

denn:

What if you die hating and cursing God?

Then you were not predestined to life, but to death.

 

[Dennyh]

So how do I find out if I am predestined to heaven or not?