How do you interpret a comandment of picking up a cross and denying your self?

[Ervin]

I become a member of this Christian forum about two or three months ago and I posted like a publick confession to all on the forum. I spoke about what I did to end up in prison and the consequencess that has on me now and my post got deleted I got banned from posting.

[Edited by staff]

How do the rest of you understand this verse or two in question? [Edited by staff]
Please read the ToS before posting again.

Thanks

 

[Digger]

I'll comment on the scripture reference in question.



Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Mat 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Clearly we see that we must lose our life in order to find it. We also see that losing our life has to do with denying ourselves and following Jesus.

Paul expanded on this quite clearly when he wrote...

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

So we are baptised into the death of Christ and are thus buried with Him. This involves our old man being crucified with Him and remember in Mat 16:24 Jesus said we must pick up our cross which is an instrument of death.

Paul writes to the Galatians...

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

This is something that those who belong to Christ have done. Their flesh has been crucified which means it has been put to death. These people have lost their life as it says in Mat 16:25.

What does this death mean?

Well as it says in Rom 6:4-5 it is to make way for being raised up with Christ. We see a parallel scripture in Colossians.

Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Thus as Jesus illustrated in Mat 16:24 we die that we may live. The old dies that the new may be born.

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

What does this mean for a Christian? Well it means a totally new way of life.

Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

The new way of life is a life yielded to God. The flesh with its passions and desires have been crucified and thus the sins of the flesh have ceased.

1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

We live to the will of God and not according to the flesh.

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

It is the law of the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ that set us free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Jesus reconciled the human race to God and by abiding in Christ we can individually be reconciled and made pure having our former sins washed away.

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?



In a nutshell we die to self so we can live for God. We do this through abiding in Jesus Christ having completely forsaken our previous life of sin.

 

[WIP]

How do you interpret a comandment of picking up a cross and denying your self?

My interpretation is that I see myself as the filthy rag I am and put all of my faith and trust in the Christ, Jesus and not on my own ability.

 

[John O]

In the process of repentance we see two elements at work the blood and the cross.
The blood covers our sin the cross breaks of the sin from our lives. This means that when I sin, fall short or choose me first over God and others I can come quickly and ask forgiveness and the blood (the sacrifice made by Jesus) covers my sin the problem is that I can't seem to stop sinning.

This is where the power of the cross comes into force, as we come to Jesus and ask forgiveness we also need to ask for His help to remove the desire for those sins from our lives. We can not do it of ourselves as will power will only last so long before it crashes and burns usually worse than we were before.

Repentance is the beginning step of transformation and this transformation comes as we become more sensitive to the sin choosing to withdraw from it more and more as our sensitivity and our conscience is built up. The Cross and the denial of self is the method God uses to develop our sensitivity and to restore our conscience.

God does not expect you or me suddenly to become a perfect Christian over night, He understands it is a process and the journey of learned obedience is more important than a perfect saint. The perfect Christian is revealed layer by layer as we respond to Jesus in our lives. Just as a diamond is revealed within a rock.

Remember as a good friend of mind says "Before I was a Christian I was a lying, swearing, smoking drinking sinner but after I was saved I was I was a lying, swearing, smoking drinking believer. Each day I learned that the sin no longer interested me and I was transformed one piece of revelation at a time".

 

[Digger]

In the process of repentance we see two elements at work the blood and the cross.
The blood covers our sin the cross breaks of the sin from our lives. This means that when I sin, fall short or choose me first over God and others I can come quickly and ask forgiveness and the blood (the sacrifice made by Jesus) covers my sin the problem is that I can't seem to stop sinning.

This is where the power of the cross comes into force, as we come to Jesus and ask forgiveness we also need to ask for His help to remove the desire for those sins from our lives. We can not do it of ourselves as will power will only last so long before it crashes and burns usually worse than we were before.

Repentance is the beginning step of transformation and this transformation comes as we become more sensitive to the sin choosing to withdraw from it more and more as our sensitivity and our conscience is built up. The Cross and the denial of self is the method God uses to develop our sensitivity and to restore our conscience.

God does not expect you or me suddenly to become a perfect Christian over night, He understands it is a process and the journey of learned obedience is more important than a perfect saint. The perfect Christian is revealed layer by layer as we respond to Jesus in our lives. Just as a diamond is revealed within a rock.

Remember as a good friend of mind says "Before I was a Christian I was a lying, swearing, smoking drinking sinner but after I was saved I was I was a lying, swearing, smoking drinking believer. Each day I learned that the sin no longer interested me and I was transformed one piece of revelation at a time".

You are in error.

The Bible specifically states that those that are Christ's HAVE crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. You are teaching the opposite of that in saying that it is a gradual process. There are no scriptures that speak of a gradual process of sinning less and less.

Look at your last statement,

"Before I was a Christian I was a lying, swearing, smoking drinking sinner but after I was saved I was I was a lying, swearing, smoking drinking believer."

What sort of salvation is that? Saved from what? Certainly not saved from the bondage of sin because the individual in question is still doing what he did before.

They are still under the dominion of sin and have not been set free.

You say this,

The blood covers our sin the cross breaks of the sin from our lives. This means that when I sin, fall short or choose me first over God and others I can come quickly and ask forgiveness and the blood (the sacrifice made by Jesus) covers my sin the problem is that I can't seem to stop sinning.

That is not what Peter taught...

1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God. What do you do with that scripture? Pretend it doesn't exist?

How about this passage...

2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

You are still in bondage to lust.

The truth is that you never actually repented. God is not going to change your desires, you have to change your desires in repentance. God will empower you but He will not do it for you.

Here is the change of desires in verse 11.

2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
2Co 7:11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

Look at what James wrote...

Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

It speaks for itself doesn't it?

Be careful of the "perfection strawman," no babe in Christ is perfect, yet they are not in rebellion anymore. When all rebellion has been put away through a genuine repentance and conversion the individual is in a position to yield and thus be perfected by God. Thus a babe in Christ will grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ. Their heart has been purified and they follow God like a child.

 

[elijah23]

I become a member of this Christian forum about two or three months ago and I posted like a publick confession to all on the forum. I spoke about what I did to end up in prison and the consequencess that has on me now and my post got deleted I got banned from posting.

[Edited by staff]

How do the rest of you understand this verse or two in question? [Edited by staff]
Please read the ToS before posting again.

Thanks

To pick up a cross and deny yourself simply means to be unselfish. Walk with the Lord.