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How do you pray to the trinity?

For centuries in Judaism we have said 'hear Yisrael the Lord our God, the Lord is One'. I bet you didn't get it...... Elohim, a plural representation of God is our Lord, and they are one. This has been the Jewish understanding. Likewise, the Lord-our God, are one, would be the Christian understanding of Messiah being of one essence with God.

My point would be that Judaism has been delving into this mystery about the oneness of 'Elohim' long before Christianity came along. A plural oneness. It's not something new, but in relation to this Christianity is new, as is the doctrine of the trinity that the church holds in an attempt to grasp this age old nugget of truth. That the Lord (and) our God (are) one. Yhwh is Elohim, Meaning, the Lord=Yhwh here. Which is why when you say Jesus is Lord you are saying Jesus is Yhwh. Because the Lord is our God, they are one. Shema Yisrael!
 
Malachi said:
The correct term would be "mysteriousness" or "incomprehensibility". Certainly not "craziness", which would be blasphemy. I am not suggesting that that was your intent. However, it is critical that we choose our words carefully when speaking of the Godhead.

Also, to the "natural" man the things of God are "foolishness". But to the "spiritual man" they are the things of the Spirit (1 Cor 2:9-16), which are frequently incomprehensible even to regenerated Christians. Infinite and eternal God cannot be comprehended by finite and mortal man in all of His fulness.
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I find that a cop out because Messiah said that the Spirit of truth would dwell and led us and remind us of all he said. He also said that he spoke in parables to those who did not believe, but to those who did believe were given the wisdom to hear the plain meaning. He did not leave us orphan, nor did he ever say he would leave us a book. He said he would leave us part of himself. And that we would be one as He is one with God.

I'm sorry you feel i'm leaning toward blaspheming. I have openly stated that I am not Christian so you should expect to find expressions and beliefs that you and the church may find heretical. I am free to particiapte in this section of the forum, no? (an honest question, no malice intended).
 
Much later all 3 become 1 God in the modern versions of the Doctrine. But all 3 are their own person. ?????
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Brother Mike,
Apparently, you are still having difficulties with the doctrine of the Trinity and disputing that Christians (including the Catholic Church) hold to a true doctrine.

But you can set aside all Catholic teaching, all Protestant teaching, all Evangelical teaching and simply open your Bible. You will see throughout Scripture that God is THREE Divine Persons. We simply have to believe it, rather than find excuses not to believe it.

Let's take just one example (Mt 3:16,17 KJV). We see here:
1. Jesus, the Son of God, the eternal Word of God, very God Himself, coming out of the water.
2. We see the Spirit of God, God the Holy Spirit, descending as a dove from Heaven, and lighting upon Him.
3. We hear the voice of God the Father, speaking from Heaven and saying, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased".

If that does not satisfy a Christian's heart and mind regarding this doctrine, nothing else will.
 
Brother Mike said:
It's not vague. The post is about Praying to the Trinity. The Trinity doctrine does not believe Jesus is God the Father, or the Creator. The Oneness and Modalist Doctrines believe that.



Trinity states there are 2, later in 381ad it became 3. All of tthe same essence of God.

Much later all 3 become 1 God in the modern versions of the Doctrine. But all 3 are their own person. ?????

However, the Athanasian Creed, (much newer) Said these 3 become 1.

The Part on how they end up just 1 God is called the mystery of Christain Faith.

The Mystery on how they become 1 God is added in the doctrine, and does not need explained at all.

In fact it's beyond human reasoning. The Souther Baptist state it's to hard for Finite man to understand.

Methodist say it's a puzzle.

Cathloics say it's a Mystery.

So..................... The mystery part is already in the Modern Trinity Doctrines, and hence since it's part of the doctrines themselves, then it can't be explained. If the ones that make the doctrines can't explain it, we don't even stand of chance of explaining it.

A Modalist or Oneness Person will attempt to explain it, but they are not Trinitarian.
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I disagree with the way you are answering here Brother Mike.
You say that Jesus was not the creator.
But that is contrary to John 1:3;
You did not address that I pray directly to Jesus and get my prayers answered.
You keep speaking of oneness and modalism, and I can add partialism and arianism.
I understand them all.
But the statement another poster made that "Jesus is not the Father" is very much a vague answer.
To make such a statement, one should add why they believe that to be so.
I can say "God is God".
I will be correct in saying so, but it would be a vague answer none the less unless I added a reason for my statement.
I believe that understanding the Trinity is truly a mystery and the way we pray to the Trinity is between our understanding and God.
 
Having been led of the spirit of Jesus Christ: Romans 8:1-9-14-39.
No, I don't pray to a trinity, But we do pray to the Father, in Jesus name, such as an example: Father! we thank you In the precious name of thy Son, Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour, amen.

http://www.triumphpro.com/newsflash_010.htm
 
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Rollo Tamasi said:
I disagree with the way you are answering here Brother Mike.
You say that Jesus was not the creator.
But that is contrary to John 1:3;
You did not address that I pray directly to Jesus and get my prayers answered.
You keep speaking of oneness and modalism, and I can add partialism and arianism.
I understand them all.
But the statement another poster made that "Jesus is not the Father" is very much a vague answer.
To make such a statement, one should add why they believe that to be so.
I can say "God is God".
I will be correct in saying so, but it would be a vague answer none the less unless I added a reason for my statement.
I believe that understanding the Trinity is truly a mystery and the way we pray to the Trinity is between our understanding and God.
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We have One God and three persons.Each one ( which are three) have their own task.I have posted this before.
 
Rollo Tamasi said:
I disagree with the way you are answering here Brother Mike.
You say that Jesus was not the creator.
But that is contrary to John 1:3;
You did not address that I pray directly to Jesus and get my prayers answered.
You keep speaking of oneness and modalism, and I can add partialism and arianism.
I understand them all.
But the statement another poster made that "Jesus is not the Father" is very much a vague answer.
To make such a statement, one should add why they believe that to be so.
I can say "God is God".
I will be correct in saying so, but it would be a vague answer none the less unless I added a reason for my statement.
I believe that understanding the Trinity is truly a mystery and the way we pray to the Trinity is between our understanding and God.
Click to expand...

Traditionaly Trinity maintains that Jesus is not the Father, Not the Holy Spirit and so on.

More Modern Jesus is the 2nd person in the Godhead.

I assume they were just quoting the Trinity belief, That Jesus is not the FAther, since the Post is about praying to the Trinity.

As for Jesus being the Creator in John 1:3.

Well, you need to visit what I posted in my other thread about the Original Trinity doctrine. It's sort of Long. Oneness believes that Jesus is the Creator, or God manifest in 3 parts. This Makes Jesus the Creator.
Trinity is 3 are One.

However, Since you are a scholar and want to check something out. The Key Word in John 1:3 is the Greek word DIA.

All things were made "BY-DIA" Him and "Without" him nothing was made.

The Word is translated correct enough, but DIA means by something, as in passing by something or because of something. It's not in the sense like, "This picture was created by "Rollo"!!!!

Col 1:16 kjva For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Col 1:16 says all things By him and For him.

It would indicate he made everying for hiself.

However, all scriptures must match perfectly, so if we translate DIA a bit better we see they do.
Dia means a channel or act through something (Strongs)
On account of, or because of, the reason for. (Thayer)

So, DIA means through as in bypass, because of, for something.

Other translations show this better, but the KJV has a couple other scripture that put the together.

Rom 11:36 kjva For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

For of Him, because of Him, and through Him are all things.

Heb 1:2 kjva Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

In the Last days the FAther has spoken to us by his son whom the FAther made all things through and because of the Son.

Everything the Father Created, was through, and because of His son.

That makes Jesus not the creator, but the 2nd person in the Godhead tirnity doctrine.

Don't ask for scipture where Jesus is the second person of the Godhead, I am just quoting mans modern version.
 
WalterandDebbie said:
Having been led of the spirit of Jesus Christ: Romans 8:1-9-14-39.
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Good quote!

9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.
​
I love how Paul speaks about the law of the Spirit and how without it we are not pleasing nor submitting to 'God's law'. Aweseome chapter of this book btw!
 
Brother Mike said:
Traditionaly Trinity maintains that Jesus is not the Father, Not the Holy Spirit and so on.

More Modern Jesus is the 2nd person in the Godhead.

I assume they were just quoting the Trinity belief, That Jesus is not the FAther, since the Post is about praying to the Trinity.

As for Jesus being the Creator in John 1:3.

Well, you need to visit what I posted in my other thread about the Original Trinity doctrine. It's sort of Long. Oneness believes that Jesus is the Creator, or God manifest in 3 parts. This Makes Jesus the Creator.
Trinity is 3 are One.

However, Since you are a scholar and want to check something out. The Key Word in John 1:3 is the Greek word DIA.

All things were made "BY-DIA" Him and "Without" him nothing was made.

The Word is translated correct enough, but DIA means by something, as in passing by something or because of something. It's not in the sense like, "This picture was created by "Rollo"!!!!

Col 1:16 kjva For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Col 1:16 says all things By him and For him.

It would indicate he made everying for hiself.

However, all scriptures must match perfectly, so if we translate DIA a bit better we see they do.
Dia means a channel or act through something (Strongs)
On account of, or because of, the reason for. (Thayer)

So, DIA means through as in bypass, because of, for something.

Other translations show this better, but the KJV has a couple other scripture that put the together.

Rom 11:36 kjva For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

For of Him, because of Him, and through Him are all things.

Heb 1:2 kjva Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

In the Last days the FAther has spoken to us by his son whom the FAther made all things through and because of the Son.

Everything the Father Created, was through, and because of His son.

That makes Jesus not the creator, but the 2nd person in the Godhead tirnity doctrine.

Don't ask for scipture where Jesus is the second person of the Godhead, I am just quoting mans modern version.
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Thank you for the answer Brother Mike.
So you are saying that Jesus is not the Creator.
I'll have to research that further.
 
Rollo Tamasi said:
Thank you for the answer Brother Mike.
So you are saying that Jesus is not the Creator.
I'll have to research that further.
Click to expand...
Brother Mike said:
Traditionaly Trinity maintains that Jesus is not the Father, Not the Holy Spirit and so on.

More Modern Jesus is the 2nd person in the Godhead.

I assume they were just quoting the Trinity belief, That Jesus is not the FAther, since the Post is about praying to the Trinity.

As for Jesus being the Creator in John 1:3.

Well, you need to visit what I posted in my other thread about the Original Trinity doctrine. It's sort of Long. Oneness believes that Jesus is the Creator, or God manifest in 3 parts. This Makes Jesus the Creator.
Trinity is 3 are One.

However, Since you are a scholar and want to check something out. The Key Word in John 1:3 is the Greek word DIA.

All things were made "BY-DIA" Him and "Without" him nothing was made.

The Word is translated correct enough, but DIA means by something, as in passing by something or because of something. It's not in the sense like, "This picture was created by "Rollo"!!!!

Col 1:16 kjva For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Col 1:16 says all things By him and For him.

It would indicate he made everying for hiself.

However, all scriptures must match perfectly, so if we translate DIA a bit better we see they do.
Dia means a channel or act through something (Strongs)
On account of, or because of, the reason for. (Thayer)

So, DIA means through as in bypass, because of, for something.

Other translations show this better, but the KJV has a couple other scripture that put the together.

Rom 11:36 kjva For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

For of Him, because of Him, and through Him are all things.

Heb 1:2 kjva Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

In the Last days the FAther has spoken to us by his son whom the FAther made all things through and because of the Son.

Everything the Father Created, was through, and because of His son.

That makes Jesus not the creator, but the 2nd person in the Godhead tirnity doctrine.

Don't ask for scipture where Jesus is the second person of the Godhead, I am just quoting mans modern version.
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I have a problem with this.
If Jesus was not the Creator, but just an instrument that God the Father used for creation, then you are putting Jesus in the same class as a "servant" rather than part of the Godhead.
Could God the Father have created anything without Jesus?
If you say yes, then Jesus is no longer God.
If you say no, then Jesus is God the Creator.
A better way to explain it is to say we don't fully understand the Trinity.
 
Rollo Tamasi said:
Thank you for the answer Brother Mike.
So you are saying that Jesus is not the Creator.
I'll have to research that further.
Click to expand...

Amen, don't take my word for it. There are so many things that are not scripture we believe, just because we have heard those things over and over.

Scripture clearly says the Father Created all things for Jesus.

In Fact, Scripture also says Jesus forknown before the foundation of the World that all things were to be in him and under him.

So, everything made was predestined to be under and through the Lord Jesus before the World was even made.

So when folks try to say that some were predestined and use a few scriptures, I will tie it all together and show that everything created was predestined to be subject to the Lord Jesus, not just a few picked out by God.

Funny thing Doctrine.

My wife and I were talking about the Marriage supper of the Lamb. I always pictured sitting down with everyone and having a great meal. Abraham, Paul, Peter, the whole gang there.

Reading Rev 19 the only place it's mentioned, the marraige looks like when we are gathered together for the great super, and it's birds eating the flesh of kings.

Not what I pictured, but I showed the wife, and I asked here where is the scripture with the super we eat?

There is none.

Kathi said:
The Creator then is God?
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Both were Called God. The Father called his son God in Hebrews. The Father refered to Jesus as Servant in the OT ISa 49:

Trinity believes there are 3 beings. The Father is the creator, Jesus is the Son, and the Holy Spirit, is the Holy Spirit. 1st, 2nd and 3rd person in the Godhead.

Trinity does not believe the Son of God created everything, but is the 2nd person in the Godhead.

It's Oneness and Modalist that believe Jesus is God incarnate, the Word part of God, or the God that was made flesh. Trinity never made such claims.

Scripture says the Father is the Creator, not the Son and Trinity does not contradict any scriptures at all.

Modern Trinity doctrines say that the 3 are 1 God.

The Original says Jesus is of the same substance as the FAther, or same God essence.

However, they still keep them seperate until the mystery part of the Christain faith.
3 distinct beings become 1 somehow.
 
I just make a traditional Sign-of-the-Cross to cover all the players at the same time. Although the H.S. does get double-billing.
 
YosefHayim said:
Do you pray to certain persons for certain things?

Or since 3 is 1, do you pray to Jesus and the Holy Ghost when you say "Dear Heavenly Father," and finish the prayer to The Father and the Holy Ghost when you say "In Jesus' Name Amen".
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I say "Dear Heavenly Father" or "Father in Heaven"....I end the prayer with "In Jesus' Name".
 
Shimshon said:
For centuries in Judaism we have said 'hear Yisrael the Lord our God, the Lord is One'. I bet you didn't get it...... Elohim, a plural representation of God is our Lord, and they are one. This has been the Jewish understanding. Likewise, the Lord-our God, are one, would be the Christian understanding of Messiah being of one essence with God.

My point would be that Judaism has been delving into this mystery about the oneness of 'Elohim' long before Christianity came along. A plural oneness. It's not something new, but in relation to this Christianity is new, as is the doctrine of the trinity that the church holds in an attempt to grasp this age old nugget of truth. That the Lord (and) our God (are) one. Yhwh is Elohim, Meaning, the Lord=Yhwh here. Which is why when you say Jesus is Lord you are saying Jesus is Yhwh. Because the Lord is our God, they are one. Shema Yisrael!
Click to expand...

The Lord our God is one (Achad).
The two shall become one (achad) flesh.
Achad: one, a unity

Ponder that.
 
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