How do your church traditions measure up to scripture?

[Jethro Bodine]

Share your experiences, knowledge, examples, etc. about church tradition vs. the scriptures.
Do you consider yourself open and courageous enough to personally challenging non-scriptural teachings and traditions in the church today?

 

[Mike S]

Give us examples of what you consider non-scriptural teaching.

 

[turnorburn]

How many examples are we allowed?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Give us examples of what you consider non-scriptural teaching.

...plurality of elders, one pastor only, membership requirements, frequency of communion, congregational voting...you know, those kinds of things.

Maybe you can share what traditions and teachings have eventually led you to choose the place you call church now, if that has been a factor in that decision.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

How many examples are we allowed?

Any and all, except, of course, those that would require us to violate the TOS regarding a certain very large church that starts with a 'C' and ends with a 'C'. And I'm not talking about the Church of Christ.

 

[turnorburn]

Then i can't play Jethro because the field isn't level.. your welcome to view my thread its chock full of traditions..

 

[Obadiah]

You know, in thinking about this I'm reminded of the last church I was heavily involved in. The pastor was very good at going straight to scripture on everything. If they had a tradition that was against scripture, he didn't hesitate to point that out and work to change it. So by the time I left I think most of their "traditions" on the surface aligned fairly well with scripture. At least I can't think of any that I could say went against scripture.

The problem was it was almost all just on the surface. They claimed to promote Christian fellowship, but within minutes of a scheduled activity reaching the time it was scheduled to end, even though there were groups of people standing around having actual fellowship, someone in charge of locking up the building was turning off lights to drive people out, and "one way" locking the doors so once a person stepped outside if even just for a minute, they were locked out in the cold and rain. Naturally they would just get in their cars and leave. They constantly talked about being good disciples and making new disciples, but in 7 or 8 years of attendance there I never saw one activity that promoted this beyond it being talked about in a few sermons. In all that time there was no outreach to the community. There was no attempt to bring the community into the church. In my first year there they had a couple of events or activities that could inspire fellowship which could lead to building good disciples, but after my first year they were all cancelled. I was a board member for some time and eventually a paid employee of the church. From those positions I constantly tried to suggest ideas on how to accomplish these "stated" goals (things I have personally lead in the past and personally seen work in other churches as well as things I have seen others do with success) but it was ignored every single time. I was even flat out stonewalled on my biggest and most important suggestion. There was simply no faith in God in hardly anyone from the head pastor on down to take over and build His disciples and His church, so they were all afraid to actually try to DO anything. The head pastor, some time after I left, actually admitted to the board that he simply didn't really believe in God at all, and had no faith. (Which wasn't much of a surprise to me after what I had been seeing on the inside, although still extremely disappointing when I heard it became reality.) I could go on and on, but what's the use.

While I don't think most of what they promoted and said or most of their traditions (as stated, not necessarily as practiced) were "unscriptural", any real life effective application of it was completely lacking. In this way they didn't even come close to living up to scripture.

 

[Obadiah]

...plurality of elders, one pastor only, membership requirements, frequency of communion, congregational voting...you know, those kinds of things.

Maybe you can share what traditions and teachings have eventually led you to choose the place you call church now, if that has been a factor in that decision.

I'm not so sure the things you've mentioned here are necessarily unscriptural. These things are really more a matter of opinion where scripture leaves no clear answers and, maybe, the choice is actually ours with no preference by God.

As for what traditions and teachings have eventually led me to choose the place I call church now, none really. I'm in a small town where there are a few churches, but all seem about the same to me. They all seem to have the same problems I left, so I'm not part of any of them right now. I would love to find one I could be part of again, but see no point in being part of a church that doesn't practice what they preach even a small amount, and where I would just be banging my sore head against a brick wall again.

 

[turnorburn]

Just when it seems the body of Christ in your area couldn't be happier.. this happens in an attempt to undo everything that's been a blessing..

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

We must be watchful that this doesn't happen and when it does handle it in an appropriate manner

*edit: had to remove the "If"

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The head pastor, some time after I left, actually admitted to the board that he simply didn't really believe in God at all, and had no faith. (Which wasn't much of a surprise to me after what I had been seeing on the inside, although still extremely disappointing when I heard it became reality.)

This is why I'd actually like to go back to the charismatic church community.
They were passionate about God because they actually knew him and lived and fellowshiped with him by the Spirit daily. I detest churches where everyone is stiff and you can't tell if they're just going to church because they think it's what they're supposed to do, or if they really have an actual, felt, manifest relationship with him. Tradition shelters so many of the former.

There was simply no faith in God in hardly anyone from the head pastor on down to take over and build His disciples and His church, so they were all afraid to actually try to DO anything.

I suggest that thinking that Christians and the church exist solely to evangelize is a misguided church tradition. Making disciples of Christ is more than just birthing them into the kingdom. It also means encouraging them and teaching them and feeding them and growing them up into the image and stature of Christ. Right up to the day they exit the body of flesh. Tradition has taught so many churches that they exist solely for the purpose of getting people saved.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Just when it seems the body of Christ in your area couldn't be happier.. this happens in an attempt to undo everything that's been a blessing..

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

We must be watchful that this doesn't happen and when it does handle it in an appropriate manner

*edit: had to remove the "If"

I think of this often when I see how misguided, Spirit-less tradition has robbed the church of the truth and fellowship of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Obadiah]

This is why I'd actually like to go back to the charismatic church community.

Ther is one about 3 miles away that I attended for a while. But sadly the speaking in tongues without translation issue got in the way for me. Especially when one of the pastors made it clears that speaking in tongues was pretty much required if you were anything more than just a baby Christian. I have a hard time with that concept, so I don't go there anymore.

By the way, just to be open, I'm not personally against or disbelieving in the gift of tongues, only against the misuse of it or the unscriptural importance some church leaders put on it. I have spoken and prayed in tongues, but have never felt the Lord lead me to do it publicly. I assume that's probably because I've never been in a situation where there was any real purpose for it while at the same time someone with the gift of interpretation was also present.

...I suggest that thinking that Christians and the church exist solely to evangelize is a misguided church tradition. Making disciples of Christ is more than just birthing them into the kingdom. It also means encouraging them and teaching them and feeding them and growing them up into the image and stature of Christ. Right up to the day they exit the body of flesh. Tradition has taught so many churches that they exist solely for the purpose of getting people saved.

And this is exactly the way the one I recently left says they believe as well. But it's in words only and they do nothing to make this happen. By the time I left all they were having was 1 Sunday morning worship service (where the attendance had dropped to about 1/3 of normal) and a couple of your typical segregated Bible studies during the week that were usually poorly prepared and very elementary in content, and only attended by a small handful of people. Nothing more to help build discipleship at all.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

By the time I left all they were having was 1 Sunday morning worship service (where the attendance had dropped to about 1/3 of normal) and a couple of your typical segregated Bible studies during the week that were usually poorly prepared and very elementary in content, and only attended by a small handful of people. Nothing more to help build discipleship at all.

You just described a tradition that has many churches in it's grip. The type of meeting where the meat and potatoes of the Christian life are to be hashed out in open Bible study and discussion and sharing end up being relegated to poorly equipped, extra-curricular, incomplete meetings held at non-traditional times, which because of that makes them entirely optional, and therefore, poorly attended.

The Sunday morning service largely conducted according to the traditions of man, not conducted in accordance with the NT pattern in our Bibles and which actual practice has shown to work the best, is the sacred cow that grabs everyone's obedience and attention. An obedience and attention pulled out of people by the guilt placed on them by the demands of tradition, not the Spirit of God.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Ther is one about 3 miles away that I attended for a while. But sadly the speaking in tongues without translation issue got in the way for me. Especially when one of the pastors made it clears that speaking in tongues was pretty much required if you were anything more than just a baby Christian. I have a hard time with that concept, so I don't go there anymore.

Well, like any church, even among the more non-traditional ones you have to discern which ones are handling the truth well, and which one's aren't.

 

[Obadiah]

You just described a tradition that has many churches in it's grip. The type of meeting where the meat and potatoes of the Christian life are to be hashed out in open Bible study and discussion and sharing but end up being relegated to poorly equipped, extra-curricular, incomplete meetings held at non-traditional times, and because of that makes them entirely optional, and therefore, poorly attended.

The Sunday morning service largely conducted according to the traditions of man, not conducted in accordance with the NT pattern in our Bibles, is the sacred cow that grabs everyone's obedience and attention. An obedience and attention pulled out of people by the guilt placed on them by the demands of tradition, not the Spirit of God.

Sadly this seems to be true in the churches I visited or inquired about around here lately. I don't think it's a good reason to not go at all, but I have to admit lately I've given up. This is primarily a rural area with a few small towns dotted around it, so choices are limited compared to the major cities. There is one church in particular with a pastor who is a personal friend of mine, that I think is conducting itself a lot more Biblicaly. I mean, they are even taking in homeless people, feeding them and giving them a roof over their heads despite the fact that they are probably violating several laws by doing this! They are charismatic in that they believe in and rely on the power of the Holy Spirit, but they do not abuse gifts like tongues. The pastor is a knowledgeable person who truly studies the scripture and has even published some successful books on it. But it's 25 miles away. When I get involved in a church I need to be a lot more involved than just going one time a week on a Sunday morning, so the distance (cost of driving as well as the time involved) is just too much of a hindrance.

Fortunately my full time job is with a Christian company and, even though they are not a church or officially a mission or anything like that, we do pray with and for our people, we talk about the Lord, and we take them to church of any other Christian activities if they desire. It's really a Christian ministry for me that is making use of the gifts and talents God has given me so it gives me opportunity to fellowship with other Christians, help other Christians grow, and get help with my own growth as well. Were it not for that, I'd be pretty lost as to what to do right now.