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How many seeds di abraham have ?

  • Thread starter Thread starter savedbygrace57
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savedbygrace57

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jn 8:


37I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

We have here, the Lord Jesus christ making a statement, that has confused many, and to this day, people believe that this was the only seed of abraham that the scripture refers to, but is it really ? Is there another seed of abraham spoken about in the scripture ?

Well first of all, to be ones seed, that means they have a father..

matt 3:

9And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

The historical jews were aware of this relationship with abraham by natural descent..

But back to Jn 8, jesus makes this astounding statement, after having already admitting that the jews had abraham as their natural father..but now he says this:

39They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

Jesus seemingly contradicts what he just asserted in vs 37..for thats what seed signifys, children..

So basically jesus is now saying , if ye were abrahams seed[children] ye would do the works of abraham..To all you james haters..notice Jesus says works of abraham..for faith without works is dead..


But back to the point, Jesus isnt contradicting himself, because abraham had two seeds..one natural and one spiritual..

paul alludes to this here 9:


6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

See, paul speaks like christ did in jn 8..he admits to a physical seed of abraham, but divorces it from another seed, the children..which isaac represented against ishmael, whom also was abrahams physical seed..

The story of isaach and ishmael gives biblical evidence to abe having two seeds proceeding from his loins..any true bible believer cannot deny that..

But, it was only one seed of abraham to whom the promises were made.gal 3:

16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ

see this, it wasnt to both seeds of abraham to whom the promises were made, but to your seed, as of one..which is christ..

Christ is of the spiritual seed..and so are believers vs

29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

in other words, both seeds of abraham, cant be the children of promise..

Isaach was a child of promise, so was christ his antitype..but ishmael was produced by the flesh only, and wasnt the child of promise God promised abe and sarah..now was he ?

all the seed to whom the promises were made, was christ and his members, because they are one..1 cor 12:

12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

So the seed of abraham, whom the promises were made gal 3:

16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ

The seed singular, was christ and his members which make up the one seed, christ..


Now, here is where it gets sticky..but bear with me please..

The spiritual seed of abraham, still had to be born physically into the world, before they could be born again spiritually..

So, hence, there was a physical line of abrahams descendants that was preserved for the spiritual seed..

here it is, matt 1:


1The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

2Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren;

3And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram;

4And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon;

5And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse;

6And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;

7And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa;

8And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias;

9And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias;

10And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias;

11And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:

12And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel;

13And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor;

14And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud;

15And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob;

16And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

17So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.

18Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

This natural abrahamic line was preserved in order the seed could be born.which was christ..notice this geneology, ishamael is not here, neither is easu..David was mentioned..

This is why Jesus says, he is the root and offspring of david rev 22:

16I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring[seed] of David, and the bright and morning star.

as made according to the flesh as the seed of david..rom 1:

3Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

as I have shown, this seed of david has come by way of the seed of abraham matt 1 1

It was this natural line of the spiritual seed, that Jesus identifies with in his incarnation..heb 2:


16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

It was this line of flesh and blood he took on..heb 2:

14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

what children ? These here rom 9:


7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

The children of promise, the spiritual seed of abraham that had to be born naturally at first..

So in closing, remeber pauls prayer..rom 9:

3For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

Paul here isnt talking about all the fleshly seed of abraham, say like the ishmaels..but the children of promise who were made the seed of david or abraham according to the flesh rom 1:

3Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

It was this kinsmen according to the flesh he yearned to see converted to the glory of God..

How do you know thats what paul had in mind when he said kinsmen according to the flesh ? By verses 4-5

4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

5Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is

#1, it was to that portion of israel to whom the promises were made..

we know this was christ..gal 3:

16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

also, all the promises of God to the jews were fulfilled in christ 2 cor 2:
20For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us

rom 15:

8Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

and secondly..vs 5:

5Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is

as i have shown earlier, the flesh line of the seed of abraham, matt 1:1-18

This could only mean therefore, that paul according to will of God, was yearning for the conversion of his brethern according to the flesh, the election of grace in the nation of israel.

which he himself was a part of rom 11:

1I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

and he was given to believe, others at that time were still in the nation vs

5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant[ of physical jews] according to the election of grace.

amen..paul could wish himself accursed for this his kinsmen according to the flesh..the physical jews who were of that seed of promise..or children of promise vs rom 9:

6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

I know this work will come under terrible attack by the enemie of Gods holy word..but if there be any of the election of grace , they will be given ears to hear..
__________________
 
Abraham as Christ stood as a head and Representative of a family, Adam stood as the federal head and natural head of Gods elect, and he was also designated the natural head of the non elect, but not their federal head, for the devil was their federal head, for he was a father in the beginning as was adam..Jn 8:

44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

1 jn 3:

8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth [and His seed] from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Just as Adam sinned in the beginning, and all whom He represented sinned in the beginning rom 5:12, so like wise as the devil sinned in the beginning, so did all for whom he represented, for both were heads or fathers..

Now Abraham was the head of a natural family, that is all who descended from him biologically, and too, He was the head of a spiritual family [ Gods elect], who as He was, made partakers of Faith hence gal 3:

So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Not only do His spiritual descendants partake of His Faith, but His works too, thats why Jesus says this Jn 8:

39They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham

This verse is a killer to them who believe that works aren't given as a evidence of true faith..and hence they condemn James..

But what a strange thing for Jesus to say, for had He not just a few verses earlier affirm that the Jews he spake too were Abraham's seed ? vs 37

I know that ye are Abraham's seed [children]; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

So now why did Jesus seem to doubt that they were Abraham's children and say" If ye be Abraham's children ye would do the works of Abraham ?

Its simple, because Abraham was the father or progenitor of two seeds, He had been given by the sovereignty of God two sets of children, a natural family and a spiritual family. Remember what God told his daughter in law Rebekah ? gen 25:23

And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.

She had two nations [ manner of people and two types of descendants of Abraham] within her; which typified that Abraham had two types of descendants from Him, the natural nation of Israel and the spiritual nation of Israel 1 pet 2:

9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

This spiritual nation or family that Abraham was the Father of gen 17:5 were men and women of every ethnic group or nation under heaven:

5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

Notice, God said that He had made Abraham a father of many nations, not he will in the future, but right then and their Abraham was a father made by God, even with children not as yet born into the world, but they were children of promise, as Isaac was..

And we know that these children Abraham had of many nations, must be spiritual, because his children according to the natural flesh were of only one nation..

And as Abraham their Father had been given Faith, God promised to give Abraham's spiritual seed faith as well, and this would manifest them as Abraham's children spiritually, promised in gen 17:5..and belonged to Jesus Christ gal 3:

29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
 
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