How Should Christians React When...

[handy]

How Should Chrisitans react when the ungodly profane what is holy to us?

Bill O'Reilly was on quite the tear today. Some gay militants dressed in bizzare outfits as transvestite nuns went before Archbishop George Niederauer to take communion. And, the Archbishop served it to them.

O'Reilly was really hot about it, called it a hate crime and said that if such disrespect happened in a Mosque, most likely the activists would have been dragged out and stoned. And, he's probably right about that, especially if they dared to do so in a Muslim country such as Iran. (Opps, sorry that's right, there are NO GAYS IN IRAN!)

He would like to see the mayor of San Francisco condemn the act, and would like to have the Church prosecute the militants for tresspassing and disturbing the peace. He wants all Christians everywhere to take a stand against this sort of hateful behavior.

Now, I like O'Reilly and I can certainly understand why such a thing got his Irish up. Does mine as well, and I'm not even full-blooded Irish. Nor am I Catholic. But, I'm wondering if Bill's call to the Christian community is really what Christ would call us to do?

Admittedly, provocation is great. Christ says to 'turn the other cheek' but that is when we are personally attacked. The attacks seen just within the past few weeks are not personal, but rather profane what is holy to us, namely Communion. Just a couple of weeks ago, the Folsom Street Fair profaned communion with their poster depicting Jesus and the disciples at the Last Supper in a sexually explicit way and now the "Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence" make a mockery of communion by going forth to be served in full drag as queer nuns.

Now, I'm somewhat of an activist myself. I've written letters to congressmen, stood holding signs, made telephone calls and exhorted brothers and sisters to stand tall and send a message over various issues. But these issues have tended to be 'life' issues such as abortion and euthansia. Here we do have what is obviously an 'act of hate' so to speak that would be condemned by every newspaper editor in the nation if it had happened at a Mosque, Synagogue, or even a Black Church. But, as it was a main-line Christian church, the San Francisco Chronicle said the story simply wasn't newsworthy and therefore didn't report on it at all. Neither has any other major news source with the exception of KNEW Radio and our feisty Irishman.

So, the purpose of this thread is to discuss what we as Chrisitans should do when hate groups descrate our holy sanctuaries. Should we turn the other cheek, or put our foot down? And, if we allow what is holy to us to be descreated so openly and without consequense, what does that bode for continued freedom of religion in America?

**NOTE** It is not the purpose of this thread to bash/support Gays and/or Catholics. There are plenty of other threads at this site dedicated to those purposes. Whatever theological differences there may exist between the RCC and Protestant denominations have no bearing on this discussion. The militants, (whom we cannot assume speak for all homosexuals) were mocking Christianity and Holy Communion, not 'just' the Catholic Church.

 

[handy]

Yet another example of mocking Christianity:

The chocolate sculpture entitled "My Sweet Lord" is making a re-appearance.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071017/ap_ ... jMSqnQbbUC

 

[Devekut]

You know Handy, I do not neccessarily see something wrong in this choclate sculpture. We all supported the rights of the cartoonists to draw pictures of Muhammad.

Of course, I would never ( I hope) do anything to disrespect Christ. But I do sense a hint of hypocrisy in a religion that constantly demands the country conform to its morality, using very public means to make these demands, then becoming shocked when the sacred becomes regarded as the property of culture. Christians try to even influence legislation in favor of Christian morality. We put Christ out there, put Him into politics, into culture and society. I don't know if its a reasonable expectation that all should have to then regard Him on our terms.

 

[Vic C.]

Yet another example of mocking Christianity:

The chocolate sculpture entitled "My Sweet Lord" is making a re-appearance.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071017/ap_ ... jMSqnQbbUC

This time it is being displayed as part of an exhibit in a gallery. I still don't like it. :-?

The sculpture is actually a new version of "My Sweet Lord," created with 200 pounds of chocolate over three days. The original was stored in a Brooklyn facility where mice nibbled away at its hands, ears, nose and feet, forcing Cavallaro to toss the original and recast the sculpture.

Hahaha, there's a message in there, somewhere. ;-)

 

[handy]

Devekut,

I'm not questioning anyone's 'right' to mock Christ or Christianity and I certainly would never expect all to regard Christ in the same manner that Christians regard Him. I'm questioning what, as a Christian, my response to such public mocking should be. Or rather, what the Christian community, as a whole should do.

Christ said to 'turn the other cheek'. This is what we should do when we are personally attacked. But, is it the best course when specifically Chrisitanity or more broadly any religion is attacked in a nation that was founded on the belief that one has the freedom to their own religious expression.

BTW, I posted the "My Sweet Lord" as an example, but I don't consider it as egregious as the 'sisters' going up for communion. Artists are free to make whatever representations they want. The question is why are so many 'wanting' to mock Christ, and what we as Christians should do about it. Christians are not going to be like the Muslims and drag bodies out to the streets to be beaten and burned. (At least not the Christians in this day and age. A few hundred years ago it was different.) But, again, should we turn the other cheek or put our foot down and demand religious respect?

Myself, I don't think we should pressure the mayor of San Francisco to charge the 'sisters'. But, I don't think they should have been served communion either.

 

[Veritas]

How Should Chrisitans react when the ungodly profane what is holy to us?

They shouldn't have been allowed to commune or come in with the rest of the worshipers. It's one thing for a church to be open to all who sincerely want forgiveness regardless of what they look like or have done and quite another to intentionly dress in such a way to outwardly scoff and offend

Now, I like O'Reilly and I can certainly understand why such a thing got his Irish up. Does mine as well, and I'm not even full-blooded Irish. Nor am I Catholic. But, I'm wondering if Bill's call to the Christian community is really what Christ would call us to do?

I disagree with Bill. The mayor has nothing to do with this. Its the churches responsibility. I'm assuming they could have been led out the door of the church peacefully. If violence did ensue at that point, then the secular authorities would have somehting to do with this.

So, the purpose of this thread is to discuss what we as Chrisitans should do when hate groups descrate our holy sanctuaries. Should we turn the other cheek, or put our foot down? And, if we allow what is holy to us to be descreated so openly and without consequense, what does that bode for continued freedom of religion in America?

Don't let them in if they are only there to cause trouble. Right now I think this has nothing to do with freedom of religion in America because the church freely let them in and served them communion.

 

[Christian Commando]

People, people- hehe- take it easy now-

Look, those people who wanted to mock God, His Word and Christ, let them. Remember, God declares- "vengence is mine, sayeth the Lord". Let God worry about what will happen to those who mock Him.

Remember as well people, the battle we fight, is not of the flesh,- "forgive them, for they know not what they do" Jesus said. The battle is of the spirit.

Realize, these people, not believing in God, Christ or the Truth of thier Word, are ignorantly doing this by the deception of Satan or his demons influencing them. Remember also, Christ tells us to love those who hate us. Why? Because they don't know any better what they are doing.

Jesus asks us, what does it prophet a man to love those who already love him, but love those that hate him, that his witness may change thier thinking.

If we can't turn around and lovingly speak to them when they pull such stunts and seek to witness Christ to them and possibly save a soul to God, what purpose have we for God's Grace shown to us?

Paul declares, he petitioned God 3 times to remove a "thorn of the flesh", a messenger of Satan sent to buffet him. God said sorry, nope. For My Grace is sufficient for thee".

No, love them and seek to witness Christ to them, both in speech and in actions. A prominent Minister of past centuries had a problem like Paul had. Unlike Paul tho, this man neither had the love nor patience to put up with the "thorn". He had the man thrown out. And yes, as others said told him after the service, it most certainly hurt his witness for Christ to the people gathered to hear him speak.

Think about it people. how has God and Christ called us to be in the eyes of the unsaved for them, and what the Holy Spirit shows us to be, thru God's Word towards them?

God Bless!!

 

[Arcanebiomech]

How Should Chrisitans react when the ungodly profane what is holy to us?

Bill O'Reilly was on quite the tear today. Some gay militants dressed in bizzare outfits as transvestite nuns went before Archbishop George Niederauer to take communion. And, the Archbishop served it to them.

O'Reilly was really hot about it, called it a hate crime and said that if such disrespect happened in a Mosque, most likely the activists would have been dragged out and stoned. And, he's probably right about that, especially if they dared to do so in a Muslim country such as Iran. (Opps, sorry that's right, there are NO GAYS IN IRAN!)

He would like to see the mayor of San Francisco condemn the act, and would like to have the Church prosecute the militants for tresspassing and disturbing the peace. He wants all Christians everywhere to take a stand against this sort of hateful behavior.

Now, I like O'Reilly and I can certainly understand why such a thing got his Irish up. Does mine as well, and I'm not even full-blooded Irish. Nor am I Catholic. But, I'm wondering if Bill's call to the Christian community is really what Christ would call us to do?

Admittedly, provocation is great. Christ says to 'turn the other cheek' but that is when we are personally attacked. The attacks seen just within the past few weeks are not personal, but rather profane what is holy to us, namely Communion. Just a couple of weeks ago, the Folsom Street Fair profaned communion with their poster depicting Jesus and the disciples at the Last Supper in a sexually explicit way and now the "Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence" make a mockery of communion by going forth to be served in full drag as queer nuns.

Now, I'm somewhat of an activist myself. I've written letters to congressmen, stood holding signs, made telephone calls and exhorted brothers and sisters to stand tall and send a message over various issues. But these issues have tended to be 'life' issues such as abortion and euthansia. Here we do have what is obviously an 'act of hate' so to speak that would be condemned by every newspaper editor in the nation if it had happened at a Mosque, Synagogue, or even a Black Church. But, as it was a main-line Christian church, the San Francisco Chronicle said the story simply wasn't newsworthy and therefore didn't report on it at all. Neither has any other major news source with the exception of KNEW Radio and our feisty Irishman.

So, the purpose of this thread is to discuss what we as Chrisitans should do when hate groups descrate our holy sanctuaries. Should we turn the other cheek, or put our foot down? And, if we allow what is holy to us to be descreated so openly and without consequense, what does that bode for continued freedom of religion in America?

**NOTE** It is not the purpose of this thread to bash/support Gays and/or Catholics. There are plenty of other threads at this site dedicated to those purposes. Whatever theological differences there may exist between the RCC and Protestant denominations have no bearing on this discussion. The militants, (whom we cannot assume speak for all homosexuals) were mocking Christianity and Holy Communion, not 'just' the Catholic Church.

Jesus would just shrug and walk away. If people are being foolish don't give them your attention. Is this the bit where I get to say "turn the other cheek"? Don't be angry about blasphemers, God can handle himself, its his decision as to what happens to them.