How the Lord commanded us to pray.

[thekingdomisathand]

Matthew 6:5-7 “And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 6 But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place;and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.[b]7 And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do.For they think that they will be heard for their many words.

So, why do you speak openly about what is supposed to be secret?
And why do some of you pray for people who you do not know?
Do you know if they have committed the unforgivable sin and that is why they are afflicted?
Or if God has become weary of them and has decided to punish them?
or whether they have been deceived into believing they are of Christ, but actually follow satan and his ilk?
Were you not told to judge wisely? Is praying without knowing these things about a man judging wisely?

And who of you knows about the sins we are not allowed to pray for?
and who of you knows what God said He will give and will not give if you ask Him for it?

And why do most of you still make long prayers with pretense?
Do you know what Amen actually means?
Are not some of you hypocrits who post prayers in order to feel pleasure when others post responses to your prayers?!
Do you know the list of reasons why God doesn't answer some prayers and for others he does?
Did you know there were reasons why He would ignore your prayers?

Did you know that He does not hear the prayers of the unrighteous?
Did you know that because He doesn't hear their prayers that that in itself makes the sinner's prayer null and void no matter how it is stated?


I do not ask you these questions because I do not know the answer, but because I know that you do not know the answers or I would not see what I am seeing.

 

[thekingdomisathand]

...

 

[Deborah13]

Reading the whole of Matt 6 in context what I see, is a teaching about all kinds of hypocrisy.

Luke 18:9-30

New Living Translation (NLT)

Parable of the Pharisee and Tax Collector

9 Then Jesus told this story to some who had great confidence in their own righteousness and scorned everyone else: 10 “Two men went to the Temple to pray. One was a Pharisee, and the other was a despised tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed this prayer: ‘I thank you, God, that I am not a sinner like everyone else. For I don’t cheat, I don’t sin, and I don’t commit adultery. I’m certainly not like that tax collector! 12 I fast twice a week, and I give you a tenth of my income.’
13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance and dared not even lift his eyes to heaven as he prayed. Instead, he beat his chest in sorrow, saying, ‘O God, be merciful to me, for I am a sinner.’ 14I tell you, this sinner, not the Pharisee, returned home justified before God. For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

 

[thekingdomisathand]

And why do some of you pray for people who you do not know?

because he said love thy neighbour and dont give vein repetitions in prayer, and vein means " being selfsish one self its all about ME ME ME". So should someone who has faith keep praying for themelves over and over or also others inbetween so its not vein repetitions and it also shows God that they care for thy neighbour?

Dunno i kind of made that up but it does make sense. lol.

Also didnt jesus pray on the cross and say 'forgive them father'. So Jesus prayed for others.

Also how does that work. Jesus is lord so he must have prayed to himself.

Vain means something else. Selfishness and vanity are different.
The word vain is explained in Ecclesiates as something that has an end and does not continue on.

But I ask more questions and the answers are important and I do hope someone will try to answer the others as well!

Didn't Jesus say "I pray not for the world"?

I like your example Deborah. Come to think of it, didn't Christ say to pray alone?
So why do we pray out loud in groups?
Why do we hold hands?..that's not in the bible....
Why do we stand in circles?....that's not in scripture either.

Who is your neighbor?!

 

[providence]

Thank you for making us think about these things. Matthew 6 does tell us to pray in secret. The broader theme is not to tithe, pray, and fast in order to be seen by men.

But are we then to pray only in secret or only individually? How then do we explain prayer among believers in Acts (Acts 1:13-14,24,2:42,4:24-31,6:6,7:59-60,8:15-17,8:24,12:12,11:5,12:5,13:3,14:23,16:16,16:25, 20:36,28:8,28:15)? And did not Jesus pray aloud on the cross (Luke 23:34,23:46)? And is not Ephesians 3:14-21 a prayer in a letter?

I think you may have 1 John 5:14,5:16 in mind. Things have been written on that, but may God provide us discernment.
http://www.gotquestions.org/sin-unto-death.html
http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=15102
http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=2132

 

[Deborah13]

And why do some of you pray for people who you do not know?

because he said love thy neighbour and dont give vein repetitions in prayer, and vein means " being selfsish one self its all about ME ME ME". So should someone who has faith keep praying for themelves over and over or also others inbetween so its not vein repetitions and it also shows God that they care for thy neighbour?

Dunno i kind of made that up but it does make sense. lol.

Also didnt jesus pray on the cross and say 'forgive them father'. So Jesus prayed for others.

Also how does that work. Jesus is lord so he must have prayed to himself.

Vain means something else. Selfishness and vanity are different.
The word vain is explained in Ecclesiates as something that has an end and does not continue on.

But I ask more questions and the answers are important and I do hope someone will try to answer the others as well!

Didn't Jesus say "I pray not for the world"?

I like your example Deborah. Come to think of it, didn't Christ say to pray alone?
So why do we pray out loud in groups?
Why do we hold hands?..that's not in the bible....
Why do we stand in circles?....that's not in scripture either.

Who is your neighbor?!

Sorry I didn't see this earlier. We have the ability to mention someone inside a post so that they get a "mention" announcement. such @thekingdomisathand .
Good to see you here.

vain = in the GK - battologEsEte - YE-SHOULD-BE-STUTTER-saying - ye-should-be-using-useless-repetitions

Nope I'm not smart but I do know how to cut and paste from a GK interaliner Bible. Trying to learn though.

Yes, Jesus did say to pray alone, too. Most of the time I do. But it is appropriate to pray for others, even out aloud, I think.
Jesus, prayed before casting out a demon, or it may have been for someone sick at least once in the scripture. Whether it was aloud I do not know. I would think He would have been setting the example for the apostles for how they were to pray.
The apostles prayed aloud for people to receive the Holy Spirit and for healing. Healing isn't allows sickness but as my grandson says, someone can be "poor inside" in their soul.
We have no instruction in how we must stand (in line, in a circle), holding hands or not. I think we do this because it a type of coming together in agreement.
We are physical people. Hugs and all you know. The Bible says that where 2 or 3 are gathered together, He is there also. This is not speaking directly about prayer but certainly if He is there, present, that should mean something. He also says "if we agree as touching anything" There is power in a prayer of agreement.

I've prayed many, many times for people I have never met. For people I didn't even know their names. Someone will call, "Please pray, there is a marriage in trouble." I don't need to know their names, the Lord knows. "So and so little boy fell into the camp fire, they flew him out flight for life." We prayed.

The best thing for you to do this do a word search of the Bible and seek out the scriptures for yourself.

Oh [MENTION=90360]providence[/MENTION] gave you a great post.

 

[Deborah13]

praying for themelves over and over or also others inbetween so its not vein repetitions and it also shows God that they care for thy neighbour?

You know, I think you made a very profound statement in that too often we may pray selfish prayers. Lord please do this for me and not pray for others as we should.

 

[Deborah13]

And why do some of you pray for people who you do not know?
Do you know if they have committed the unforgivable sin and that is why they are afflicted?
Or if God has become weary of them and has decided to punish them?
or whether they have been deceived into believing they are of Christ, but actually follow satan and his ilk?
Were you not told to judge wisely? Is praying without knowing these things about a man judging wisely?

We are never told to judge a person salvation. When we pray for say a marriage, is it God's will that a marriage be healed? Yes
Is it God's will that a person be healed? I believe it is, yes.
Is it God's will for people to be saved? yes
Is it God's will for someone to have a job in order to take care of their family? yes
There are times when we cannot know the will of God because it is not clear in His Word, at that time we can pray that His will be done.
"Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven."

 

[Deborah13]

and who of you knows what God said He will give and will not give if you ask Him for it?

He says to ask Him whatever we desire. That doesn't mean we will get it all the time, sometimes people have waited yrs. and then seen a pray answered.
He is our Father, our Abba Father. If we do not ask we are not doing what He clearly said to do.
Amen = "so be it"
The word "amen" is a most remarkable word. It was transliterated directly from the Hebrew into the Greek of the New Testament, then into Latin and into English and many other languages, so that it is practically a universal word. It has been called the best known word in human speech. The word is directly related — in fact, almost identical — to the Hebrew word for "believe" (amam), or faithful. Thus, it came to mean "sure" or "truly", an expression of absolute trust and confidence. — HMM http://v3.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G281&t=KJV
Told I was good at copy and paste.

 

[thekingdomisathand]

Providence. Good to hear from you.
Deborah.

:yes Yes, so be it. Or as I see it Jeremiah 28:6 "The Lord do so" .

Look again.

Where in any one of those examples does it say those people prayed aloud with audience to hear them?
Did Jesus cry out in prayer? Was it in the same format as a prayer?
Who said when the disciples came together to pray they did not pray within their hearts? As Hannah did. 1 Sam 1:9-16

Do you say that Jesus disobedy His own commmand to pray in secret? Did He not have the ability to pray in his heart also?
Did the disciples have this ability also, could they not have prayed together, but in secret; praying for the same thing within their hearts?
And could the writer who wrote what they prayed for not have asked them after the event what lead up to the Spirit acting in that manner and then wrote it down for you to see?



And lastly. Didn't your King tell you how to pray? If another man considered to be holy should pray another way, should you follow his example or instead be obedient to God?

And if a man who is considered to be holy is in disobedience does not the true proverb come into play?
"Dead flies cause the ointment of the apothecary to send forth a stinking savour: so doth a little folly him that is in reputation for wisdom and honour."



You say you pray for people who you have never met.

Did you know that God punishes people and it is not always His will that something or someone should be healed?
Did you know that sometimes God told prophets to tell NATIONS not to pray for a particular people anymore because of their unrighteousness? How do you know that the people you pray for have not offended God?
Did you know the once a man blasphemes the Holy Spirit his life is basically over?
Why should you pray for anyone if you do not know the people you are praying for specifically?
How do you know you are not praying that God may work good works in an evil man's life?

You say that it is God's will for people to be saved?
Does God not make people for the specific purpose of dishonor that they may never be saved?
Did He himself not speak in parables so that prophecy may come true saying
"By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive"?
Christ explaining that "For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them."

And for anyone to answer: Are all prayers supposed to be for good things?

 

[Mike]

I have moved this from the "Prayer Requests and Praises Forum" to the General Forum. The original location is intended for actual prayer and praise; not a discussion about it. This is a more appropriate forum to have this discussion.

 

[Slider]

I like your example Deborah. Come to think of it, didn't Christ say to pray alone?
So why do we pray out loud in groups?
Why do we hold hands?..that's not in the bible....
Why do we stand in circles?....that's not in scripture either.

I hear ya thekingdom.... I've often wondered myself why people pray publically like they do when Matthew 6 says not to (if you want it answered).

As for praying in groups... it can be done as a "Church body". It still has to be private though... An example is found in Acts 12 when many people prayed for Peter's release from Jail. It was still in a house and so it was private, but they were praying as "one body". It's actually kind of a funny story because when Peter knocked on the door, no one believed it and they seemingly left him standing outside for a while!

As for holding hands and standing in circles.... Yea, it's not in the Bible, but it isn't forbidden either. So I don't see anything wrong with it.

 

[tim-from-pa]

I pray in my closet. When I used to teach, I'd say to the class, "Have a good week. Pray in your closets ...." Never opened or closed the class with prayer. If one wants Yahweh's blessings on that gathering for them to learn, one should have prayed that beforehand. One does not come to teach unprepared and gather info at the last minute, so that applies for prayer, too.

 

[divinecloud7]

How the Lord commanded us to pray.

<!-- / -->Matthew 6:5-7 “And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For
they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets,
that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.
6 But
you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to
your Father who is in
the secret place;and
your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.[b]7
And when you pray, do not use vain
repetitions as the heathen do.For they think that they will be heard for their many
words.

Agreed

So, why do you speak openly about what is supposed to be secret?
And why do some of you pray for people who you do not know?
Do you know if they have committed the unforgivable sin and that is why they are afflicted?
Or if God has become weary of them and has decided to punish them?
or whether they have been deceived into believing they are of Christ, but actually follow satan and his ilk?
Were you not told to judge wisely? Is praying without knowing these things about a man judging wisely?

And who of you knows about the sins we are not allowed to pray for?
and who of you knows what God said He will give and will not give if you ask Him for it?

And why do most of you still make long prayers with pretense?
Do you know what Amen actually means?
Are not some of you hypocrits who post prayers in order to feel pleasure when others post responses to your prayers?!
Do you know the list of reasons why God doesn't answer some prayers and for others he does?
Did you know there were reasons why He would ignore your prayers?

Did you know that He does not hear the prayers of the unrighteous?
Did you know that because He doesn't hear their prayers that that in itself makes the sinner's prayer null and void no matter how it is stated?


I do not ask you these questions because I do not know the answer, but because I know that you do not know the answers or I would not see what I am seeing.

These questions; however I question.....for one if he doesn't hear unrighteous peoples prayers then how can those unrighteous people be brought to repentance? Or brought to the table to be cleansed? Just because someone is called unrighteous by another does not make them unrighteous. If GOD the heavenly father and JESUS CHRIST do not answer prayers then how do we; who's ways are not his ways, or our thoughts his thoughts presume to predict what the intent or purpose is.

JOB for example could be construed in such a manner. Or Paul's prayer for removal of the thorn from his side....Hmmmmmmm. Often times we do not see, we are blind trying to lead the blind and this can warrant much distress where there should be none.

"Listen not to man's understanding, but that of GOD's word and his son lord JESUS CHRIST through faith which we are saved."

"The primary question is of our Christian faith and how to obtain or purify it!"

Isaiah 55:8-9
New International Version (NIV)
<sup class="versenum">8 </sup>“For my thoughts<sup class="crossreference" value='(A)'></sup>
are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”<sup class="crossreference" value='(B)'></sup>
declares the Lord.
<sup class="versenum">9 </sup>“As the heavens are
higher than the earth,<sup class="crossreference" value='(C)'></sup>
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts

PROVERB 3:5-6
Trust in the Lord<sup class="crossreference" value='(A)'></sup>
with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
<sup class="versenum">6 </sup>in all your ways
submit to him,
and he will make your paths<sup class="crossreference" value='(B)'></sup>
straight.

<sup class="footnote" value='[a]'>[a]</sup>



Praise be to GOD the heavenly father and his son lord JESUS CHRIST forever>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

[Sparkey]

I do not ask you these questions because I do not know the answer,

It is as you have stated. These are not questions. I utterly reject your attempt to teach here. Come back in the Name of Jesus with praise and thanksgiving in your heart and I will hear you.

 

[thekingdomisathand]

These questions; however I question.....for one if he doesn't hear unrighteous peoples prayers then how can those unrighteous people be brought to repentance? Or brought to the table to be cleansed? Just because someone is called unrighteous by another does not make them unrighteous. If GOD the heavenly father and JESUS CHRIST do not answer prayers then how do we; who's ways are not his ways, or our thoughts his thoughts presume to predict what the intent or purpose is.

JOB for example could be construed in such a manner. Or Paul's prayer for removal of the thorn from his side....Hmmmmmmm. Often times we do not see, we are blind trying to lead the blind and this can warrant much distress where there should be none.

"Listen not to man's understanding, but that of GOD's word and his son lord JESUS CHRIST through faith which we are saved."

"The primary question is of our Christian faith and how to obtain or purify it!"

Excellent!
What did Jesus say?
"Seek first the kingdom and the rest will be added unto you"

Now He was talking about clothing, thrist, and food, but everything God says is wise. Therefore it is able to be applied whenever it is applicable.
So, a man must first become obedient and show God that He has a desire for Him. Then the man when he prays he will be heard.

Before a man begins to be obedient God does not know him and the man does not know God. Why should God do anything goodly to a man who is unknown to Him?
Aren't those people who do not know God evil, every one of them? How then do people expect the Lord to hear them.
Should God help a rapist stop desiring to rape if the man does not know or wish to know God?
And to those who have rejected Him their whole lives and when trajedy strike call out to Him. Should they be heard?
Does not wisdom say:
"Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded; But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof: also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh; When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you"?

And read also Psalms 59 and Psalms 2. It says the same.

So, be obedient first.
If you desire you can pull up all the scriptures saying that He doesn't hear the unrighteous and test what I am saying for yourself. Solomon spoke of it, Job spoke of it, Jesus spoke of it, and it is in psalms also.

Nowhere, that I have seen, and I have studied this, was it written that either of those men prayed out loud in front of an audience. Everyone in Job seemed to be speaking or perhaps writing letters. It is intirely possible for a man to pray, have his prayer answered, then tell a scribe about it so that he can write it down, or even write it down himself so that others would know what he prayed for.

And if Jesus or any of the disciples did pray after being told to pray a specific way then they would be hypocrits or atleast disobedient.
So is everyone who hears the Lord's command on how to pray and does not straight away do it.

Faith cannot be purified. It is given in measure and not all men have it.

The answer to your question about being able to understand God and know what He wants is found in 1 John chapter 2.

 

[Sparkey]

Blessed is the man who comes in the name of the Lord.

I ask you directly. Do you, thekingdomisathand, come in the Name of Jesus?

 

[Eugene]

But I ask more questions and the answers are important

Why? and would you be satisfied with straight answers?

Didn't Jesus say "I pray not for the world"?

Yes!
John 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
Context. I reckon if Jesus was asking prayer for King David He could have exclusive mentioned him instead. Who in fact was Jesus praying for?
Surely you realize God loved the world so much He gave His Son. . .
John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word

didn't Christ say to pray alone?

Again you've having a problem with context if you think we're never to pray together.
Luke 3:21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,. Did Jesus leave the river to be alone to pray?

Matthew 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
1 Thessalonians 5:17 Pray without ceasing. You gonna stay in that closet?
As a child we lived in a home without closets; I reckon we were not allowed to pray huh?
Acts 1:14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication . .
Acts 6:4 But we will give ourselves continually to prayer . . Do you think they remained alone in a closet?

Luke 1:10 And the whole multitude of the people were praying without at the time of incense.
Acts 12:12 And when he had considered the thing, he came to the house of Mary the mother of John, whose surname was Mark; where many were gathered together praying.
Luke 9:28 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.
James 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

So why do we pray out loud in groups?

Individual preference I suppose. If someone in the gathering together asks for prayer should we say no? Is there a penalty for doing so?

Why do we hold hands?..that's not in the bible....
Why do we stand in circles?....that's not in scripture either.

Is the manner of love shown dictated in scripture? I personally do not stand around holding hands in circles in prayer; Colossians 2:2, That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love. If called on to pray for those who ask for prayer I'm normally in a pew.

Who is your neighbor?!

Luke 10:29-37 explains this. 29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?

 

[providence]

Where in any one of those examples does it say those people prayed aloud with audience to hear them?
Did Jesus cry out in prayer? Was it in the same format as a prayer?
Who said when the disciples came together to pray they did not pray within their hearts? As Hannah did. 1 Sam 1:9-16
Do you say that Jesus disobedy His own commmand to pray in secret? Did He not have the ability to pray in his heart also?
Did the disciples have this ability also, could they not have prayed together, but in secret; praying for the same thing within their hearts?
And could the writer who wrote what they prayed for not have asked them after the event what lead up to the Spirit acting in that manner and then wrote it down for you to see?

In Acts 21:5-6 they prayed on the shore, not in a closet, house, street corner of the city or boat. In Acts 4:24-31 they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and if Stephen did pray in silence while being stoned (Acts 7:59-60), he did not live to retell that prayer. Stephen's prayer parallels that of Jesus when crucified (Luke 23:34,46): “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.†This was a prayer for the ungodly while doing their acts of ungodliness (Matthew 5:44-45, Matthew 9:12-13). Stephen's prayer was fruitful (James 5:16) since one of those people, either unknown or not known in a good way to Stephen, was Paul (Acts 7:58), who by undesired grace was spared for a time and later saved (and truly forgiven) and through whom (Acts 9:15) many are here today.

 

[thekingdomisathand]

Where in any one of those examples does it say those people prayed aloud with audience to hear them?
Did Jesus cry out in prayer? Was it in the same format as a prayer?
Who said when the disciples came together to pray they did not pray within their hearts? As Hannah did. 1 Sam 1:9-16
Do you say that Jesus disobedy His own commmand to pray in secret? Did He not have the ability to pray in his heart also?
Did the disciples have this ability also, could they not have prayed together, but in secret; praying for the same thing within their hearts?
And could the writer who wrote what they prayed for not have asked them after the event what lead up to the Spirit acting in that manner and then wrote it down for you to see?

In Acts 21:5-6 they prayed on the shore, not in a closet, house, street corner of the city or boat. In Acts 4:24-31 they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and if Stephen did pray in silence while being stoned (Acts 7:59-60), he did not live to retell that prayer. Stephen's prayer parallels that of Jesus when crucified (Luke 23:34,46): “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” This was a prayer for the ungodly while doing their acts of ungodliness (Matthew 5:44-45, Matthew 9:12-13). Stephen's prayer was fruitful (James 5:16) since one of those people, either unknown or not known in a good way to Stephen, was Paul (Acts 7:58), who by undesired grace was spared for a time and later saved (and truly forgiven) and through whom (Acts 9:15) many are here today.

In none of those examples does it say those men prayed out loud. In fact, some of those scriptures said "He SAID" this, this, and that. If it was a prayer then it would be in the format of a prayer. Just because a man speaks to God does not mean he is praying. Also, if you say Jesus prayed aloud then you also say He is a hypocrit for He would have disobeyed His own command.
When the Lord said closet He meant a space alone for when He prayed He even went only a stone's throw away. If you are outside then the world is the closet, but you are to pray so that none hear you. If you are in a group and no place alone is available then you are to pray in your heart.

"I will have mercy, not sacrifice"