How to handle the apparently misogynistic passages such as 1 Timothy 2:8-15?

[Tenchi]

I explained this in post #28 about complementarianism and second wave feminism. Neither is in the bible, but both are the status quo in the church we have to confront with.

But you were attacking Paul's words, regardless, as though he was an anti-feminist.

Man and woman being "leader" and "helper" is a literal reading of Adam and Eve's roles in the garden, in most old translations the Hebrew word ezer is rendered as "helper". Unfortunately, this title in English comes with a negative connotation of inferiority, it's synonymous with "assistant", "servant", "supporter".

Then the object of your attack ought to be secular societies' ideas about women, not the Bible.

Neverthelss, the stereotype of "helper" is established, it brings forth complementarianism, which often further leads to abuse of power, since "power corrupts, absolute power absolutely corrupts."

A complementarian view might lead to abuse. It might not. Simply stating that it will in this broad, sweeping way, however, doesn't establish the truth of your statement. And any man being careful of God's word, giving it the supreme authority it is due in his thinking and conduct, whether he be complementarian in view or otherwise, cannot descend into abuse of his spouse for the Scripture about which he is careful flatly prohibits it.

You can ignore all of these and bury your head in the Scripture, but the devil doesn't ignore you, he doesn't leave you alone, this is a unique challenge in our time which we must confront.

Well, go ahead and confront, if you like. But attacking the Bible isn't necessary to doing so - especially when you distort and misconstrue its contents.

I didn't distort it, Saint Auguistine did.

Yes, you did distort Paul's words, regardless of what Augustine may or may not have done.

That had always been the traditional Catholic teaching,

Surely, you're aware that Roman Catholic teaching often diverges from Scripture.

It has totally distorted our view of human sexuality, I intended to discuss this with you in the other thread, but you kept evading it.

Other thread? Evading? I don't know what you're referring to here.

Yes, the bible does condemn the cultural narrative, but the bible doesn't ignores it, it doesn't pretend no other cultural narrative exists, and it certainly doesn't forbid or discourage us from reading secular sources.

I've not said that the Bible did.

If you believe that God has authority over all heavens and earth, then nothing is "secular", everything is sacred.

This is a giant non sequitur. And God in His word separates Himself very clearly from a great many things that are a part of the "secular." Read 2 Corinthians 6:14-18, or James 4:4, or 1 John 2:15.

The word of God is sufficient and authoritative, but WE are NOT sufficient or authoritative, WE need guidance sent from God, this much is clearly indicated by the word of God itself

Yes. I've not suggested otherwise.

If you know that the issue of vanity and status was an issue in the Ephesus church, and you acknowledge that women were leaders in the early church, then you clearly have read and studied some extrabiblical materials about the historical background.

"Extra-biblical materials" aren't at all necessary, merely a careful reading of Paul's words.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

But you were attacking Paul's words, regardless, as though he was an anti-feminist.

Consider it the five stage of grief - denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance. The word of God is counterintuitive, nobody accepts it immediately and genuinely, spiritual growth is a slow progress for everyone. Besides, what's wrong about being an anti-feminist? Today's third wave feminism is against, not for women's wellbeing, it is full of vitriol and resentment with nothing positive to offer.

Then the object of your attack ought to be secular societies' ideas about women, not the Bible.

I told you before that although the bible is inspired by God, translations are not, there're errors, inaccuracies and confirmation bias of the translator in all versions, including KJV. The more you study the original language, the more of such errors and inaccuracies you'd know. That doesn't add but rather closes the distance between you and God. The word "helper" is one good example, "silence" in the OP's passages is another, the orginal word means a mild, peaceable manner as opposed to the "wrath and doubting" in 1 Tim. 2:8.

A complementarian view might lead to abuse. It might not. Simply stating that it will in this broad, sweeping way, however, doesn't establish the truth of your statement. And any man being careful of God's word, giving it the supreme authority it is due in his thinking and conduct, whether he be complementarian in view or otherwise, cannot descend into abuse of his spouse for the Scripture about which he is careful flatly prohibits it.

But some men apparently do, as I pointed out at the end of the OP. Such scandals dishonor God and cause more damage to the church than any attack and accusation from the secular world.

Well, go ahead and confront, if you like. But attacking the Bible isn't necessary to doing so - especially when you distort and misconstrue its contents.

Yes, you did distort Paul's words, regardless of what Augustine may or may not have done.

Surely, you're aware that Roman Catholic teaching often diverges from Scripture.

Other thread? Evading? I don't know what you're referring to here.

I explained that the bible portions like these passages are polemic in nature, they are written to challenge a pre-existing worldview. If you wanna explain what these passages really mean, then you must face and challenge your listener's pre-existing worldview as well. Otherwise, you're just stuck in the denial and anger phases as I mentioned. You're now driven by your emotion, reacting to my post line by line without solid reasoning in coherent sentences, it's like shooting the messenger.

I've not said that the Bible did.

This is a giant non sequitur. And God in His word separates Himself very clearly from a great many things that are a part of the "secular." Read 2 Corinthians 6:14-18, or James 4:4, or 1 John 2:15.

This is the evading and dodging I'm talking about by dismissing it as a "non sequitur". God doesn't separate us from "secular", He only separates us from evil.

"I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one." - Jn. 17:15
"Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil." - Matt. 6:13

Yes. I've not suggested otherwise.

"Extra-biblical materials" aren't at all necessary, merely a careful reading of Paul's words.

No they're not, but they're a means to an end.