How to test Christians who claim having the gift of healing?

[Dave Slayer]

How do you test Christians who claim having the gift of healing? What if you know of someone who says they can heal by the Holy Spirit through them? How do you test that? And if someone has the gift of healing, how should it happen according to the scriptures? Should the healings be instantaneous? Should they occur with others witnessing? Can they happen without any witnesses?

I have a middle ear infection that I would like healed. Should I go to this person to have it healed? If I get healed, how soon should I expect the healing to take place?

 

[AAA]

For a condition like a middle ear infection, where many (the majority?) resolve with no treatment at all, the only way to test any therapeutic intervention, is a double blind randomized trial. This is an experiment that would go like this:

A large sample of people with middle ear infections agree to have a 50% chance to receive a treatment by the so-called healer, and a 50% chance to get a sham treatment by a non-healer (like a lawyer or a ditch-digger, or someone who doesn't claim to have any special healing touch or capability). The patients cannot know which of the 2 treatments (the one by the healer and the sham treatment) they are receiving. The assignment to one treatment or the other really is random: often, a sealed envelope is opened revealing the treatment assignment.

These 2 groups are then followed up carefully to determine how many recover, or how many recover without needing any extra treatments, or how quickly each group recovers, etc.

The people determining whether a patient has recovered or not should also not be aware of which treatment the patients received (double blind: neither the patient nor the person assessing the outcome are aware of treatment assignment).

There is always the possibility that, by chance, a treatment effect will be identified where there really isn't one, just as there is a possibility that if you toss a coin 6 times, you might get heads 5 of those 6 times. There is also a possibility that a real treatment effect might be missed. If the sample of patients is appropriately large, these chances are diminished, and one can be very sure of the results. One can become even more sure if repeated adequately sized studies all show the same results.

Faith healers, if they have a real effect in this world, ought to be testable in this way, just as the effect of an antibiotic, or any other therapeutic intervention can be tested in this way. This is the only intellectually honest way to know.

 

[handy]

Here's my on healings and healers.

I do believe that there is a gift of healing, but I think that it is more or less part of a "package" that comes with the spirit. In other words, any and all Chrisitans can be an avenue of God's healing. Now, that there might be some Christians who are more open to bringing God's healing to others is true enough and we can say that those are especially gifted as healers, just as we can say that some are especially gifted as teachers, even though any and all Christians can teach others truths, just as we do here at this forum.

The thing is, I don't think anyone is healed by another person. I believe that healing is done by the Spirit based upon the faith of the person seeking the healing. When I see hundreds of people lining up to be "healed" by a certain man, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth because that man is most likely a false prophet motivated more to separate people from their money rather than from their illnesses. A true Christian who is bringing the gospel to others by way of the gift of healing isn't going to accept payment for it. Their emphasis would be to bring about spiritual healing in opening up the gospel to the sick so that they can in faith be healed of their illness. A person truly gifted with the gift of healing most likely wouldn't become all that famous, but rather would always point to God.

The reason why there are some folks genuinely healed by the false prophets is because although they might have come to the prophet, it was God that they had the faith in and it was God who healed them. For the most part, all those famous "healers" out there are charletan's who leave a wake of spiritually shipwreaked folks behind when what those folks thought was healing was nothing more than trickery.

Dave, if you want your ear infection healed, and believe that this person is someone who is gifted with healing, remember that it isn't that the person is magical in any way. Go to the person with you faith firmly placed in God, ask that s/he pray for you, annoint you with oil, and then believe that God will heal you.

As for whether or not it should be instantaneous or whether or not there need be witnessess, I'd say most likely for the first and not at all for the second.

Just remember that it is YOUR faith that is at play here. If you want healing for your ear infection, you just go to the folks in your own church and ask if they would lay hands upon you, and pray with you for healing. I very well remember an older lady in a church I once went to doing this. A number of us went to her and laid hands upon her. As we prayed, I felt what I can only describe as something like a hot thread being pulled from the palm of my hand into her side. And, she was healed, completely, right then and there. Now, it certainly wasn't anything about me that caused that, it was her faith and the Spirit that did it. Perhaps it was my palm because mine just happened to be in the right place at the right time, or perhaps everyone felt the same thing I did. Doesn't really matter, because she had faith that God would heal her, and He did so.

 

[Dave Slayer]

So are some Christians just blessed with the gift of praying for people to be healed? Many who claim to have the gift of healing will often say that you aren't guranteed to be healed, or it depends on how much faith you have in getting healed.

 

[Nick]

or it depends on how much faith you have in getting healed.

that bit is definately not right - as that is works.

 

[justvisiting]

So are some Christians just blessed with the gift of praying for people to be healed? Many who claim to have the gift of healing will often say that you aren't guranteed to be healed, or it depends on how much faith you have in getting healed.

I wish I had the power to heal a lot of people. I see some things in this world that really hurt to witness...especially starving children, deformed, etc.
I believe the time is coming when miracles will be more evident...the closer we get to the return of Christ.
A believer actually is given the power to heal. It is a gift...if God gives it. It's something that is granted from God.
1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
1Co 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

Act 5:14 And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.)
Act 5:15 Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them.
Act 5:16 There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.
Act 19:11 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:
Act 19:12 So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.

 

[justvisiting]

For a condition like a middle ear infection, where many (the majority?) resolve with no treatment at all, the only way to test any therapeutic intervention, is a double blind randomized trial. This is an experiment that would go like this:

A large sample of people with middle ear infections agree to have a 50% chance to receive a treatment by the so-called healer, and a 50% chance to get a sham treatment by a non-healer (like a lawyer or a ditch-digger, or someone who doesn't claim to have any special healing touch or capability). The patients cannot know which of the 2 treatments (the one by the healer and the sham treatment) they are receiving. The assignment to one treatment or the other really is random: often, a sealed envelope is opened revealing the treatment assignment.

These 2 groups are then followed up carefully to determine how many recover, or how many recover without needing any extra treatments, or how quickly each group recovers, etc.

The people determining whether a patient has recovered or not should also not be aware of which treatment the patients received (double blind: neither the patient nor the person assessing the outcome are aware of treatment assignment).

There is always the possibility that, by chance, a treatment effect will be identified where there really isn't one, just as there is a possibility that if you toss a coin 6 times, you might get heads 5 of those 6 times. There is also a possibility that a real treatment effect might be missed. If the sample of patients is appropriately large, these chances are diminished, and one can be very sure of the results. One can become even more sure if repeated adequately sized studies all show the same results.

Faith healers, if they have a real effect in this world, ought to be testable in this way, just as the effect of an antibiotic, or any other therapeutic intervention can be tested in this way. This is the only intellectually honest way to know.

You wouldn't believe it if it was right in front of you anyway.
Double blind randomized samples

 

[Ed the Ned]

I am very skepticle about faith healers! If a faith healer acts and talks like Benny Hinn then NO! he is not a faith healerm but a CON. Faith healing is an area of Christianity where many fo the so called "faith healers" have done more to destroy Christianity than advance the kingdom of God.
This running around and "let the bodies hit the floor" garbage is far from the prayer of faith in James 5.
If the focus is on the healer then it is false, if the focus is on God and what is biblical then I will be more inclined to believe, but Benny Hinn is a good benchmark to work from.

 

[Dave Slayer]

It seems to me that most of the healings done today are quite small compared to the healings in the Bible. I know people who say they know people who have been healed but won't take their own sick family members to be healed. Why is that? It's always hearsay it seems like. How come we never see someone who was born blind given site? Has God limited His healing power to headaches and bad knees?

 

[handy]

Many who claim to have the gift of healing will often say that you aren't guranteed to be healed, or it depends on how much faith you have in getting healed.

I think that is what is referred to as "CYB". It provides for a convenient "out" for when the healing doesn't work. "I'll take your money to heal you, but if it doesn't work, it's your fault."

It seems to me that most of the healings done today are quite small compared to the healings in the Bible. I know people who say they know people who have been healed but won't take their own sick family members to be healed. Why is that? It's always hearsay it seems like. How come we never see someone who was born blind given site? Has God limited His healing power to headaches and bad knees?

I know that some will go ballistic here for me to say this, but I really think that are two reasons for this:
One, because we have alternatives. The blind do have sight restored. The lame can walk again. It's called modern medicine. I was going blind. My eyesight had always been bad and there came a time when it got to the point that it was so bad, corrective lenses could no longer correct my vision. I prayed that the Lord would restore my sight. Then, there is a really long story of an amazing way that, in spite of that the FDA banned the need surgery in the States, in spite of the fact that I was spit poor, and in spite of the fact that I no insurance, I was able to recieve a sight restoring surgery in Canada. I still wear glasses for walking around and driving and such, but I'm sitting right now with no glasses or anything and can see perfectly well to write this. It's an amazing story of God's provision.

Could He had restored my vision via miracle? Yes. Without a doubt He could have. Was it because of my "lack of faith" in Him that He didn't. No, not at all, because I don't for a moment lack in faith that He could have.

So, why no miracle? This gets into my second reason as to why we don't see the healings that are described in the Bible all that often anymore. Let me ask this? Why should He have worked a miracle regarding my sight? I didn't need one. God doesn't need to prove Himself to me by performing miracles. He does promise to provide for my every need, and He did so and I praise Him for it.

Perhaps He should have provided the miracle so that others would be wowed by my testimony. Hey, I tell others all the time of God's love, of His care, of His provision, of His promise of eternal life. If they are going to reject all the truths about God that I have shared, they'll reject the truth of a miracle as well.

Most people are always whining "I would believe if I had a sign or a miracle" but the truth of the matter is, if they aren't going to believe in the gospel, then they aren't going to believe in a miracle.

Read John 6:1-31.

Here is a summary of what happened:

Jesus was preaching to a crowd of over 5000.
The crowd was hungry.
Jesus performed a miracle and the crowd of 5000 was fed with 5 loaves of bread and two fish.
The crowd was so awed by the miracle they were going to take Jesus by force and make Him king.
Jesus left the area and went to the other side of the sea.
The crowds followed and caught up with Him the very next day.
After a discussion about signs and food this is what the crowd, the very same people who had been miraculously fed just within 24 hours said:
"What then do You do for a sign that we may see and believe You? What work do You perform?"

See what I mean?

 

[justvisiting]

Well Handy
It's not your normal Bible type of miracle...but I am happy for you that your sight is restored. I had to see a doc about two operations myself. Definitely not my first choice, but what do you do? I wonder sometimes whether there is a dispensationalism in miracles. They just don't seem evidently around. There must be some people somewhere that have undeniable, not doctor imposed miracles.
I'm not implying that you should not thank God for the help you got...it's just 2000 years later...I really wish some evidently supernatural stuff...would show up.
I guess God has His good reasons for the way things are now. I think in the future, miracles will be more prevalent as we get closer to the return of Christ.
I wouldn't mind meeting someone that actually has some obvious, undeniable, illness etc. that doctor's couldn't explain...that was healed.

 

[handy]

JV, for your sake, I'll go into detail about my dear friend from church. She was quite old, in her 70's and had something wrong with her liver. The doctors just couldn't seem to do anything for her, since most of the "cures" would have been too much for her old body. She just trouped on, but after a while the pain became so bad that she really was in bad shape. Finally it got to the point of missing church. She was such a wonderful Christian sister, I know I prayed and prayed that the Lord would heal her. I couldn't stand the idea of her being in pain. The thing was, the doctors knew that it wasn't terminal, she was dying or anything, her liver was dieased though, and the surgeries were just too dangerous for someone her age and pain management pills would have zapped her mentally and physically.

Now this was a woman who really did need a miracle.

She came to church one evening, and I was shocked to see this once lively go-getter almost doubled over in pain. She asked if we would pray for her and our pastor asked if anyone in the congregation who wanted to would please come forward to lay hands upon her. This was evening service and not as many folks were there, but she had almost the entire church there, surrounding her. I was just at her back, to the side and when we were led to lay hands on her, I laid my palm right on her side approx. where I though the liver would be. As the pastor and all of prayed together, I felt what seemed like a hot thread go from my palm into her side.

Again, I say, I DON"T have the "gift of healing". This was a one time thing that happened to me, and it happened because of her faith and the fact that we all were joined together praying to God on her behalf. But, as soon as that happened, she began to cry out and say that she was cured. She was able to stand up and gave everyone hugs and was radient with joy.

I went to that church for about another two years before moving out of state. She was there every Sunday, faithfully. Her doctors were amazed at what happened, and no one was happier than they to give her a clean bill of health.

So, yes, there are times when God still provides those miracles.

 

[justvisiting]

Now we're getting somewhere. Right on!

 

[justvisiting]

We used to do this in the church I got Saved in. The pastor would anoint with oil, and the elders and the pastor would lay hands on. The whole congregation would pray with them.
I'm happy to hear of such things.
Handy
Sounds like you are the one that should be praying for Dave.
Maybe you should fly the elders over too.

 

[AAA]

There must be some people somewhere that have undeniable, not doctor imposed miracles.

What do you mean by that?

 

[AAA]

Now we're getting somewhere. Right on!

How, with one anecdote, can we be getting anywhere?

With an anecdote, all you have is one person's recollection of their perception of an event. Either or both of the recollection or the perception could be inaccurate, and you have no way of verifying either. People's recollection and perceptions of events are notoriously inaccurate.

Anecdotal evidence cannot establish the truth of miraculous healings, anymore than it can establish anything at all as true. As far as evidence goes, it is the weakest type possible.

What would you say if I told you that my cat healed my neighbor's skin disorder? Ever since she touched a patch of it when I got her 2 years ago, he claims that he hasn't had a single recurrence, despite having had this problem continuously for about 4 years prior to that. When she touched it, he said he had an intense warm feeling over it that must have had something to do with her healing power. Am I getting somewhere with this story?

 

[justvisiting]

I'd say you're trolling.
Do you think I really care whether you believe in miracles. I believe her.
You don't even believe in Christ...why would I even count your opinion for something.

 

[AAA]

I'd say you're trolling.

Do you think I really care whether you believe in miracles. I believe her.

You don't even believe in Christ...why would I even count your opinion for something.

I care about you JV, because you are a living, conscious creature sharing the earth with me. I keep trying to engage you (in this and other threads) in a discussion precisely because I'm interested in your opinions, and more importantly, how you come to your opinions and how you defend them.

That last part of my last sentence is really important, since that's what apologetics is all about, and that's why I can't legitimately be accused of trolling.

Regarding the last part of your last sentence (above), you beg the following question: There are billions of people who share this planet with you who don't believe in Christ (in fact, as a believer in Christ, you are a member of a minority). Do any of their opinions count for anything with you, or do you only consider the opinions of people who generally believe the same things that you do?

 

[justvisiting]

Handy
Most people are always whining "I would believe if I had a sign or a miracle" but the truth of the matter is, if they aren't going to believe in the gospel, then they aren't going to believe in a miracle.

Read John 6:1-31.

Here is a summary of what happened:

Jesus was preaching to a crowd of over 5000.
The crowd was hungry.
Jesus performed a miracle and the crowd of 5000 was fed with 5 loaves of bread and two fish.
The crowd was so awed by the miracle they were going to take Jesus by force and make Him king.
Jesus left the area and went to the other side of the sea.
The crowds followed and caught up with Him the very next day.
After a discussion about signs and food this is what the crowd, the very same people who had been miraculously fed just within 24 hours said:
"What then do You do for a sign that we may see and believe You? What work do You perform?"

See what I mean?

Totally agree with you on that one Handy