I don't trust dreams

[Alfred Persson]

Never had a dream reveal divine truth in over 50 years, but lots of bad that taught lies. Same with my only "out of the body vision". It was not from God.

I believe angels (including satan and demons) can "download" a "virtual reality" telepathically into the brain, and make people think they are experiencing a dream or vision that is revealing divine truth, or the future etc. They can even convince one has been abducted by "aliens" and impregnated.

I only trust scripture for truth. We can read Bible prophecy and not wonder "is this a false prophecy?". If its in scripture depicted as God's truth, then its "true". Its "objective", not subjective. It only requires we interpret it correctly, based upon what the text says = facts.

On my site I discuss my "vision". No sense repeating it here:

Test The Spirits in Dreams Visions Abductions | End Time News

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.(1 Jn. 4:1 NKJ) I had an "out of body" experience where the illusion I had traveled to heaven was very real, but Scripture implies Demons can "download" a...

endtimenews.net

 

[Hidden In Him]

Never had a dream reveal divine truth in over 50 years, but lots of bad that taught lies. Same with my only "out of the body vision". It was not from God.

I believe angels (including satan and demons) can "download" a "virtual reality" telepathically into the brain, and make people think they are experiencing a dream or vision that is revealing divine truth, or the future etc. They can even convince one has been abducted by "aliens" and impregnated.

I only trust scripture for truth. We can read Bible prophecy and not wonder "is this a false prophecy?". If its in scripture depicted as God's truth, then its "true". Its "objective", not subjective. It only requires we interpret it correctly, based upon what the text says = facts.

Alfred, let's discuss the dreams from scripture that the children of God have had then. Why do you think they trusted in dreams, whereas you do not?

 

[Alfred Persson]

Alfred, let's discuss the dreams from scripture that the children of God have had then. Why do you think they trusted in dreams, whereas you do not?

I don't rule out divine instruction from dreams. Scripture says it happens. But when you count the divine dreams in scripture, in the context of all the dreams people had in scripture....divine dreams are rare, very rare.

My personal experience mirrors that. Of all the "supernaturally inspired dreams and visions" I had, 100% of them weren't "of God".

Satan and demons communicate telepathically.

Christ said the devil snatches the word from some people after they hear the gospel. Paul says Satan blinds the mind to the glorious light of the gospel.

"Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. (Lk. 8:12 NKJ)

Satan must accomplish that by telepathically convincing his victim what he heard isn't true. And he must do this without his victim realizing it. That implies he does it telepathically. Anecdotal proof would be what happens during seances, or ufo alien encounters.

As my bad visions and dreams sometimes were as real as the Matrix was to Neo in the movie, its evident these "simulations" were "downloaded" or "streamed" into my mind and seemed to be real. If I didn't know better (because God the Holy Spirit keeps me), I would have been convinced.


Now we know why the Bible reveals the entire earth is under the devil's influence. Fact is, every unsaved person is being misled by demonic influence, just as we were before being saved:

1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,
2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. (Eph. 2:1-3 NKJ)

 

[Hidden In Him]

I don't rule out divine instruction from dreams. Scripture says it happens. But when you count the divine dreams in scripture, in the context of all the dreams people had in scripture....divine dreams are rare, very rare.

List the dreams mentioned in scripture that you think were not "divine dreams," as you call them.

 

[Alfred Persson]

List the dreams mentioned in scripture that you think were not "divine dreams," as you call them.

7 Then Saul said to his servants, "Find me a woman who is a medium, that I may go to her and inquire of her." And his servants said to him, "In fact, there is a woman who is a medium at En Dor."
8 So Saul disguised himself and put on other clothes, and he went, and two men with him; and they came to the woman by night. And he said, "Please conduct a seance for me, and bring up for me the one I shall name to you."
9 Then the woman said to him, "Look, you know what Saul has done, how he has cut off the mediums and the spiritists from the land. Why then do you lay a snare for my life, to cause me to die?"
10 And Saul swore to her by the LORD, saying, "As the LORD lives, no punishment shall come upon you for this thing."
11 Then the woman said, "Whom shall I bring up for you?" And he said, "Bring up Samuel for me."
12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice. And the woman spoke to Saul, saying, "Why have you deceived me? For you are Saul!"
13 And the king said to her, "Do not be afraid. What did you see?" And the woman said to Saul, "I saw a spirit ascending out of the earth."
14 So he said to her, "What is his form?" And she said, "An old man is coming up, and he is covered with a mantle." And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground and bowed down.
15 Now Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" And Saul answered, "I am deeply distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God has departed from me and does not answer me anymore, neither by prophets nor by dreams. Therefore I have called you, that you may reveal to me what I should do."
16 Then Samuel said: "Why then do you ask me, seeing the LORD has departed from you and has become your enemy?
17 "And the LORD has done for Himself as He spoke by me. For the LORD has torn the kingdom out of your hand and given it to your neighbor, David.
18 "Because you did not obey the voice of the LORD nor execute His fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore the LORD has done this thing to you this day.
19 "Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with you into the hand of the Philistines. And tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The LORD will also deliver the army of Israel into the hand of the Philistines." (1 Sam. 28:7-19 NKJ)

This vision is not from God. Satan masqueraded as Samuel, that is why the medium saw an "elohim" and not the human spirit of Samuel. This surprised her, causing her to cry out.

Samuel, a true prophet of God who obeyed God in life, would obey Him in death. Satan agrees God has departed from Saul and would not answer him by prophets like the real Samuel.

Satan, who does not know the future, makes a mistake about timing, thinking Saul would die the next day. That was a false prophecy, Saul died three or more days later (compare 1 Sam. 30:1, 17)


Satan "streamed" this "matrix like simulation" to the medium's mind. Remember, our brains interpret electric impulses from the ears, eyes, body, to "see". Human scientists by directly stimulating the brain's visual cortex can also make people "see" things.

"The prophet who has a dream, let him tell a dream;
And he who has My word, let him speak My word faithfully.
What is the chaff to the wheat?" says the LORD. (Jer. 23:28 NKJ)

Scripture warns in the end time dreamers will come, hurling insults at Satan and demons like unthinking brutes:

Yet in the same manner these men, also by dreaming, defile the flesh, and reject authority, and revile angelic majesties. (Jude 1:8 NAS)

"What is the chaff to the wheat" Asks Yahweh God?

"His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather the wheat into His barn; but the chaff He will burn with unquenchable fire." (Lk. 3:17 NKJ)

 

[Who Me]

Alfred, let's discuss the dreams from scripture that the children of God have had then. Why do you think they trusted in dreams, whereas you do not?

Basicly they did not have personal copies of the torch, they would have memorised large portions of the torch from public readings.
This means any dreams or visions from God would be important to them.
But those same dreams were clearly from God, they were not vague.

Today we have multiple copies of the bible, we do not need dreams and missions to motivate us in to holy living.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Satan "streamed" this "matrix like simulation" to the medium's mind

LoL. For starters, this is one vision. I can show you about 15 in scripture that are from God, so to say that "most of the dreams and visions in scripture are not divinely inspired" is a stretch, in the extreme. Secondly, Alfred, there are numerous problems with your interpretation here.

1. If this was merely a witch conjuring a spirit to imitate Samuel, why did she freak out upon seeing Samuel. "11 Then the woman asked, “Whom shall I bring up for you?” “Bring up Samuel,” he said. 12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out at the top of her voice and said to Saul, “Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!”

2. If this was a spirit and not the actual Samuel, why does the word of God not specify this? Throughout the entire narrative, the Lord confirms it was indeed Samuel. "20 Immediately Saul fell full length on the ground, filled with fear because of Samuel’s words. His strength was gone, for he had eaten nothing all that day and all that night." This is not part of the medium's mere testimony, this is the word of God itself testifying that it actually was the spirit of Samuel Saul conversed with. Though it is likely not your intention, your interpretation actually makes the word of God out to be a liar here, Alfred.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Scripture warns in the end time dreamers will come, hurling insults at Satan and demons like unthinking brutes:

Yet in the same manner these men, also by dreaming, defile the flesh, and reject authority, and revile angelic majesties. (Jude 1:8 NAS)

Sorry. Absolutely 100% contradictory to the written word of God here, Alfred.

16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: 17 'And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams. 18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days; And they shall prophesy. 19 I will show wonders in heaven above And signs in the earth beneath: Blood and fire and vapor of smoke. 20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord. 21 And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the Lord Shall be saved.' (Acts 216-21)

Alfred, your verse in Jude 1:8 (not translated well btw) was written about the Gnostics, who operated in occultism. They were not representative of the true church, who were also operating in dreams and visions back then. By interpreting it the way you have, you make what even the apostles were receiving to be demonic, and that is not true. They were operating in the real thing, and the real thing still occurs today. Or do you think Joel 2 has now been completely fulfilled?

 

[Angelina]

7 Then Saul said to his servants, "Find me a woman who is a medium, that I may go to her and inquire of her." And his servants said to him, "In fact, there is a woman who is a medium at En Dor."
8 So Saul disguised himself and put on other clothes, and he went, and two men with him; and they came to the woman by night. And he said, "Please conduct a seance for me, and bring up for me the one I shall name to you."
9 Then the woman said to him, "Look, you know what Saul has done, how he has cut off the mediums and the spiritists from the land. Why then do you lay a snare for my life, to cause me to die?"
10 And Saul swore to her by the LORD, saying, "As the LORD lives, no punishment shall come upon you for this thing."
11 Then the woman said, "Whom shall I bring up for you?" And he said, "Bring up Samuel for me."
12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice. And the woman spoke to Saul, saying, "Why have you deceived me? For you are Saul!"
13 And the king said to her, "Do not be afraid. What did you see?" And the woman said to Saul, "I saw a spirit ascending out of the earth."
14 So he said to her, "What is his form?" And she said, "An old man is coming up, and he is covered with a mantle." And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground and bowed down.
15 Now Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" And Saul answered, "I am deeply distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God has departed from me and does not answer me anymore, neither by prophets nor by dreams. Therefore I have called you, that you may reveal to me what I should do."
16 Then Samuel said: "Why then do you ask me, seeing the LORD has departed from you and has become your enemy?
17 "And the LORD has done for Himself as He spoke by me. For the LORD has torn the kingdom out of your hand and given it to your neighbor, David.
18 "Because you did not obey the voice of the LORD nor execute His fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore the LORD has done this thing to you this day.
19 "Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with you into the hand of the Philistines. And tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The LORD will also deliver the army of Israel into the hand of the Philistines." (1 Sam. 28:7-19 NKJ)

This vision is not from God. Satan masqueraded as Samuel, that is why the medium saw an "elohim" and not the human spirit of Samuel. This surprised her, causing her to cry out.

Samuel, a true prophet of God who obeyed God in life, would obey Him in death. Satan agrees God has departed from Saul and would not answer him by prophets like the real Samuel.

Satan, who does not know the future, makes a mistake about timing, thinking Saul would die the next day. That was a false prophecy, Saul died three or more days later (compare 1 Sam. 30:1, 17)


Satan "streamed" this "matrix like simulation" to the medium's mind. Remember, our brains interpret electric impulses from the ears, eyes, body, to "see". Human scientists by directly stimulating the brain's visual cortex can also make people "see" things.

"The prophet who has a dream, let him tell a dream;
And he who has My word, let him speak My word faithfully.
What is the chaff to the wheat?" says the LORD. (Jer. 23:28 NKJ)

Scripture warns in the end time dreamers will come, hurling insults at Satan and demons like unthinking brutes:

Yet in the same manner these men, also by dreaming, defile the flesh, and reject authority, and revile angelic majesties. (Jude 1:8 NAS)

"What is the chaff to the wheat" Asks Yahweh God?

"His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather the wheat into His barn; but the chaff He will burn with unquenchable fire." (Lk. 3:17 NKJ)

That is the most ridiculous conclusion I have ever heard. Alfred Persson. If that was from Satan, would he not have appeared? Listen, everything Samuel said to Saul came to pass. Satan would not be telling Saul the truth. At that time Saul banned sorcery and divination from his kingdom, but because he was desperate to hear a word from the Lord through Samuel, he tricked the witch from Endor to bring him up from the dead. Why do you think it was banned as a rule in his kingdom? It was because it was possible, and it was an abomination in God's eyes.

Tomorrow shall you and thy sons be with me.—The Hebrew word here rendered “tomorrow,” machar, need not signify “the next day,” but some near future time. (Bishop Wordsworth commentary)

 

[Alfred Persson]

LoL. For starters, this is one vision. I can show you about 15 in scripture that are from God, so to say that "most of the dreams and visions in scripture are not divinely inspired" is a stretch, in the extreme. Secondly, Alfred, there are numerous problems with your interpretation here.

1. If this was merely a witch conjuring a spirit to imitate Samuel, why did she freak out upon seeing Samuel. "11 Then the woman asked, “Whom shall I bring up for you?” “Bring up Samuel,” he said. 12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out at the top of her voice and said to Saul, “Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!”

2. If this was a spirit and not the actual Samuel, why does the word of God not specify this? Throughout the entire narrative, the Lord confirms it was indeed Samuel. "20 Immediately Saul fell full length on the ground, filled with fear because of Samuel’s words. His strength was gone, for he had eaten nothing all that day and all that night." This is not part of the medium's mere testimony, this is the word of God itself testifying that it actually was the spirit of Samuel Saul conversed with. Though it is likely not your intention, your interpretation actually makes the word of God out to be a liar here, Alfred.

Again, I agree scripture says God used dreams to communicate. But I also claim of the 40 authors of scripture books, only a few claimed dreams and even then they don't claim it was a daily occurrence. They recount them as a rare event.

My personal stance is like those many Bible book writers who evidently didn't claim divine dreams, nor did they dispute these exist. There is nothing "LOL" about that, unless insanity as gripped you.

None of my "supernaturally inspired dreams", and I have had these, were "of God". Satan or demons tried to seduce my soul into immorality, or believe lies. Some of these dreams were as real as if I was awake. And I had a similar "vision" where everything seemed real, which I recount on my site:

Test The Spirits in Dreams Visions Abductions | End Time News

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.(1 Jn. 4:1 NKJ) I had an "out of body" experience where the illusion I had traveled to heaven was very real, but Scripture implies Demons can "download" a...

endtimenews.net

As for the Medium, you ask why she "freaked out". She expected "to see a human spirit", instead she saw an elohim. That is what angels are:

And the king said to her, "Do not be afraid; but what do you see?" And the woman said to Saul, "I see a divine being (0430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym) coming up out of the earth." (1 Sam. 28:13 NAS)

THEREFORE, It wasn't Samuel's spirit, he is not a divine being. Simple logic, not "LOL" unless one is irrational, laughing out loud like some loon in an asylum.

You ask why scripture didn't explain this. Scripture expects readers to think as they read.

Saul is breaking God's command, trying to contact the dead. Why does God command we not speak to the dead? Think.

Our loving Father God is protecting us from deception by evil Satan and his demons who masquerade as a deceased loved one.

If God expected dreamers to arrive at His truth equal to those who study the bible, why did He say:

"The prophet who has a dream, let him tell a dream; And he who has My word, let him speak My word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat?" says the LORD. (Jer. 23:28 NKJ)

A thinking reader would conclude dreams are not as informative as scripture, that dreams can be the source of lies.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Sorry. Absolutely 100% contradictory to the written word of God here, Alfred.

16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: 17 'And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams. 18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days; And they shall prophesy. 19 I will show wonders in heaven above And signs in the earth beneath: Blood and fire and vapor of smoke. 20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord. 21 And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the Lord Shall be saved.' (Acts 216-21)

Alfred, your verse in Jude 1:8 (not translated well btw) was written about the Gnostics, who operated in occultism. They were not representative of the true church, who were also operating in dreams and visions back then. By interpreting it the way you have, you make what even the apostles were receiving to be demonic, and that is not true. They were operating in the real thing, and the real thing still occurs today. Or do you think Joel 2 has now been completely fulfilled?

Incorrect. Both scripture statements are true. The Holy Spirit will use dreams in the end time to communicate truth.

But existing alongside these "wheat", chaff was sown by the devil. They will follow their demonic dreams, which teach them to act irrationally, immorally, stupidly.

Both will exist in the end time. That is 100% self consistent, truth.

24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field;
25 "but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way.
26 "But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared.
27 "So the servants of the owner came and said to him,`Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?'
28 "He said to them,`An enemy has done this.' The servants said to him,`Do you want us then to go and gather them up?'
29 "But he said,`No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them.
30 `Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn."'"
(Matt. 13:24-30 NKJ)

 

[Alfred Persson]

That is the most ridiculous conclusion I have ever heard. Alfred Persson. If that was from Satan, would he not have appeared? Listen, everything Samuel said to Saul came to pass. Satan would not be telling Saul the truth. At that time Saul banned sorcery and divination from his kingdom, but because he was desperate to hear a word from the Lord through Samuel, he tricked the witch from Endor to bring him up from the dead. Why do you think it was banned as a rule in his kingdom? It was because it was possible, and it was an abomination in God's eyes.

Tomorrow shall you and thy sons be with me.—The Hebrew word here rendered “tomorrow,” machar, need not signify “the next day,” but some near future time. (Bishop Wordsworth commentary)

I don't understand your argument: "If that was from Satan, would he not have appeared?" Why would Satan appear as he wanted to deceive Saul? Saul didn't ask for Satan's help.

Nothing came to pass like Satan pretending to be Saul, predicted. Saul and his sons did NOT die the next day.

The elephant in the room is missing in your reply. WHY did God command the Israelites "don't speak to the dead"? Would a God of love keep his children from speaking to their parents after they died? Not if they could, that would be unloving.

God forbids speaking to the dead because we can't, because Satan and demons will appear disguised as the dead to deceive us. That is what happened to Saul. That is why this text exists in the Bible. Not to teach good things happen to those who disobey God's command, only bad things.

 

[hawkman]

I don't rule out divine instruction from dreams. Scripture says it happens. But when you count the divine dreams in scripture, in the context of all the dreams people had in scripture....divine dreams are rare, very rare.

Alfred Persson , you have not listed one single dream talked about in the bible that was not from God , so are there any ?

 

[Alfred Persson]

Alfred Persson , you have not listed one single dream talked about in the bible that was not from God , so are there any ?

2 For the idols speak delusion; The diviners envision lies, And tell false dreams; They comfort in vain. Therefore the people wend their way like sheep; They are in trouble because there is no shepherd.
3 "My anger is kindled against the shepherds, And I will punish the goatherds. For the LORD of hosts will visit His flock, The house of Judah, And will make them as His royal horse in the battle. (Zech. 10:2-3 NKJ)
1 "If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder,
2 "and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying,`Let us go after other gods'-- which you have not known--`and let us serve them,'
3 "you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the LORD your God is testing you to know whether you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
4 "You shall walk after the LORD your God and fear Him, and keep His commandments and obey His voice, and you shall serve Him and hold fast to Him.
5 "But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has spoken in order to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the house of bondage, to entice you from the way in which the LORD your God commanded you to walk. So you shall put away the evil from your midst. (Deut. 13:1-5 NKJ)

Its odd Christians don't know the devices Satan uses to deceive, the Bible lists them all. Paul claims he and the Corinthians were not ignorant of them:

lest Satan should take advantage of us; for we are not ignorant of his devices. (2 Cor. 2:11 NKJ)

Again, let me be clear. I know scripture says God may use dreams, but I also know scripture depicts this as a rare event and warns about "false dreams" deceiving people.

That's all I did, warn against accepting dreams as divinely inspired when scripture refers to such so rarely and warns about false dreams.

In my experience, every "supernaturally inspired dream" or vision I had these last 50 plus years as a Christian, were "Not of God." They were attempts at seducing my soul to immorality, or falsehood.

 

[hawkman]

2 For the idols speak delusion; The diviners envision lies, And tell false dreams; They comfort in vain. Therefore the people wend their way like sheep; They are in trouble because there is no shepherd.
3 "My anger is kindled against the shepherds, And I will punish the goatherds. For the LORD of hosts will visit His flock, The house of Judah, And will make them as His royal horse in the battle. (Zech. 10:2-3 NKJ)
1 "If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder,
2 "and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying,`Let us go after other gods'-- which you have not known--`and let us serve them,'
3 "you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the LORD your God is testing you to know whether you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
4 "You shall walk after the LORD your God and fear Him, and keep His commandments and obey His voice, and you shall serve Him and hold fast to Him.
5 "But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has spoken in order to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the house of bondage, to entice you from the way in which the LORD your God commanded you to walk. So you shall put away the evil from your midst. (Deut. 13:1-5 NKJ)

Its odd Christians don't know the devices Satan uses to deceive, the Bible lists them all. Paul claims he and the Corinthians were not ignorant of them:

lest Satan should take advantage of us; for we are not ignorant of his devices. (2 Cor. 2:11 NKJ)

Again, let me be clear. I know scripture says God may use dreams, but I also know scripture depicts this as a rare event and warns about "false dreams" deceiving people.

That's all I did, warn against accepting dreams as divinely inspired when scripture refers to such so rarely and warns about false dreams.

In my experience, every "supernaturally inspired dream" or vision I had these last 50 plus years as a Christian, were "Not of God." They were attempts at seducing my soul to immorality, or falsehood.

Yes , I know about false dreams but I thought you had a list of false dreams you had found in the bible .

 

[Angelina]

I don't understand your argument: "If that was from Satan, would he not have appeared?" Why would Satan appear as he wanted to deceive Saul? Saul didn't ask for Satan's help.

Nothing came to pass like Satan pretending to be Saul, predicted. Saul and his sons did NOT die the next day.

The elephant in the room is missing in your reply. WHY did God command the Israelites "don't speak to the dead"? Would a God of love keep his children from speaking to their parents after they died? Not if they could, that would be unloving.

God forbids speaking to the dead because we can't, because Satan and demons will appear disguised as the dead to deceive us. That is what happened to Saul. That is why this text exists in the Bible. Not to teach good things happen to those who disobey God's command, only bad things.

You have no evidence to prove that it was Satan except the fact that the outcome of what Samuel had said was 3 days off? So it must be from Satan? Yet the actual prophecy he spoke was fulfilled.
The word "tomorrow" used in 1 Sam. 28:19 is Machar 4279
Strong's Lexicon
machar: Tomorrow, in time to come, in the future
Original Word: מָחָר
Pronunciation: mah-khar'
Definition: Tomorrow, in time to come, in the future
Meaning: deferred, the morrow, tomorrow, hereafter

The word "tomorrow" used in this case indicates time to come rather than that very day. Your argument here is moot..

 

[Alfred Persson]

Yes , I know about false dreams but I thought you had a list of false dreams you had found in the bible .

I never claimed the bible had a list. The vision of the medium is just like a "vivid dream". Look it up. Its a dream one has while partially awake. Some people manipulate their emotions to have "vivid dreams".

Scripture warns about false prophets. While no list is given, a few examples can be found, but they are now dead.

Scripture warns Satan has influence over the entire world, but no list is given how he accomplishes that:

The whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one. (1 Jn. 5:19 NKJ)

So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. (Rev. 12:9 NKJ)

Inductively, Scripture reveals Satan "blinds minds" against the glorious gospel by telepathic means:

"Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. (Lk. 8:12 NKJ)

That could include dreams that convince people to turn away from Christ, to immorality or falsehood.

 

[hawkman]

I never claimed the bible had a list.

You said "count " , where is your count of dreams not from God that are in the bible ?

I don't rule out divine instruction from dreams. Scripture says it happens. But when you count the divine dreams in scripture, in the context of all the dreams people had in scripture....divine dreams are rare, very rare.

So you only have conjecture and no numbers ? Do you have something to offer we can count ?

 

[Alfred Persson]

You said "count " , where is your count of dreams not from God that are in the bible ?

So you only have conjecture and no numbers ? Do you have something to offer we can count ?

Not "conjecture", inductive logic.

Scripture refers to dreamers...false dreams. It also refers to false prophets, false prophecy. In neither case is there a count given.

Notice how often God is quoted, or a Bible writer makes a definitive statement about truth. While I haven't counted the times to make a list, its everywhere and often.

Compare that to how often a dream is cited for doctrine.

Although I haven't taken the time to list every doctrine taught by citing God, or directly taught by Christ, a prophet, or apostle, I can't recall one time when a dream is cited for doctrine.

can you?

 

[hawkman]

Not "conjecture", inductive logic.

Scripture refers to dreamers...false dreams. It also refers to false prophets, false prophecy. In neither case is there a count given.

Notice how often God is quoted, or a Bible writer makes a definitive statement about truth. While I haven't counted the times to make a list, its everywhere and often.

Compare that to how often a dream is cited for doctrine.

Although I haven't taken the time to list every doctrine taught by citing God, or directly taught by Christ, a prophet, or apostle, I can't recall one time when a dream is cited for doctrine.

can you?

Count you said and you can't . Now you want to change the subject , I understand .