I thought heaven was peaceful?

[ForeverTrue]

Can someone explain these scriptures?

And there was war in heaven; Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels.
Rev. 12:7

And the armies of heaven, wearing fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses.
Rev. 19:14

From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and the violent take it by force.
Matt. 11:12

The above passage from Matthew is in reference to John the Baptist, and is immediately preceded by the following description of him:

Truly I tell you, among those born of women no one has arisen greater than John the Baptist; yet the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Matt. 11:11

Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.
Matt 24:34-35

 

[glorydaz]

Can someone explain these scriptures?

From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and the violent take it by force.
Matt. 11:12

The above passage from Matthew is in reference to John the Baptist, and is immediately preceded by the following description of him:

Truly I tell you, among those born of women no one has arisen greater than John the Baptist; yet the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Matt. 11:11

As to this part of your question....

The force spoken of here is the zeal or striving to enter into the kingdom.

Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

John was preaching the kingdom was "at hand". While he was the greatest under the law, he had not yet entered into the kingdom because Christ was not yet risen.

 

[JudyB]

There are layers in heaven, I believe. Lucifer made war in the beginning and God threw him down to earth. There are heavenly wars, also I believe, and this affects the weather patterns. In the end times, we will see more natural disasters and with more strength.

Matthew 24:7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.

They are fighting over your soul.

 

[Nick]

Those Revelation scriptures you posted are describing the war that has already been fought between God & His angels and Satan & his angels over our souls and power. The battle has already been won by God.

 

[samuel]

Those Revelation scriptures you posted are describing the war that has already been fought between God & His angels and Satan & his angels over our souls and power. The battle has already been won by God.

Those who teach that this war has not taken place, but will in the future. Are teaching that Jesus work at the Cross, was insufficient. He won the victory at the cross over satan, and crushed his head, just as God told Adam and Eve in the garden he would.

Revelation makes reference to this as parenthetical, that is something that has already taken place.

Jesus stands in heaven as our advocate, there is no place for satan there.

 

[JudyB]

I have to disagree with you on that. The book of Revelation is a prophetic book of events that have not occurred yet. John, the apostle, proclaimed that Christ would return as Victorious Lord and vindicate the righteous and judge the wicked.

The book of Revelation is also a book of warning - things were not right with the churches and God called members to commit themselves to live righteous lives - to renew their Spirit and re-commit themselves to the task at hand.

Rev. 1:1 states that the book is "a revelation from Jesus Christ of events that will happen soon." It is a book about the future and about the present. It gives us present guidance about how we should live for him now. It also proclaims Christ's final victory over evil and the reality of Eternal life with HIM.

The book of Revelation unveils Christ's identity and God's plan for the end of the world. It focuses on Jesus Christ, HIS second coming, his victory over evil , and the establishment of HIS Kingdom. These are all future events which were prophesied in Ezekiel and Daniel.

For example: Rev. 1:7 was foretold in Dan 7:13(and Zech 12:10, Matt. 24:30)

Revelation 1: 7 Look, he is coming with the clouds,
and every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him;
and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen.


Daniel 7: 13 "In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence.

 

[JudyB]

Samuel posted: "Jesus stands in heaven as our advocate, there is no place for satan there."

In response, let me display this quote from the book of Job...

Job 1
Job's First Test
6 One day the angels [a] came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. 7 The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?"
Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it."

8 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil."

9 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. 10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face."

12 The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger."
Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.

Job 2
Job's Second Test
1 On another day the angels [a] came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them to present himself before him. 2 And the LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?"
Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it."

3 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason."

4 "Skin for skin!" Satan replied. "A man will give all he has for his own life. 5 But stretch out your hand and strike his flesh and bones, and he will surely curse you to your face."

6 The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, he is in your hands; but you must spare his life."

7 So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD and afflicted Job with painful sores from the soles of his feet to the top of his head. 8 Then Job took a piece of broken pottery and scraped himself with it as he sat among the ashes.

 

[samuel]

Job 1
Job's First Test
6 One day the angels [a] came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. 7 The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?"
Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it."

Old Testament, BC (before Christ), before Christ sacrifice on the Cross. Just how would you be forgiven, and your sins remembered no more, if satan was there all the time bringing them up ????.

The book of Revelation things that HAVE BEEN, ARE, and ARE to COME. Now just where do we draw these lines, there is also another parenthetical verse in Revelation, it has to do with the Christ child being caught to his Fathers Throne (not the rapture).

 

[Nick]

Those Revelation scriptures you posted are describing the war that has already been fought between God & His angels and Satan & his angels over our souls and power. The battle has already been won by God.

Those who teach that this war has not taken place, but will in the future. Are teaching that Jesus work at the Cross, was insufficient. He won the victory at the cross over satan, and crushed his head, just as God told Adam and Eve in the garden he would.

Revelation makes reference to this as parenthetical, that is something that has already taken place.

Jesus stands in heaven as our advocate, there is no place for satan there.

I agree with you, Samuael. That is what I have been saying.

 

[JudyB]

Samuel, you posted:
Old Testament, BC (before Christ), before Christ sacrifice on the Cross. Just how would you be forgiven, and your sins remembered no more, if satan was there all the time bringing them up ????.

satan bringing up our sins does not negate God's forgiveness. He is the 'accuser of the brethren'. he can accuse all he wants; God isn't listening. HIS forgiveness, once given, stands forever.

Revelation 12:10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ. For the accuser of our brothers, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.

He points the finger at us and is the origination of guilt. If he can devour us with guilt, he will.
1 Peter 5:8 Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.

Also, you posted....
The book of Revelation things that HAVE BEEN, ARE, and ARE to COME. Now just where do we draw these lines, there is also another parenthetical verse in Revelation, it has to do with the Christ child being caught to his Fathers Throne (not the rapture).

Revelation 12
1A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. 4His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born. 5She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

Revelation 12:
10Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
"Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Christ.
For the accuser of our brothers,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.
11They overcame him
by the blood of the Lamb
and by the word of their testimony;
they did not love their lives so much
as to shrink from death.
12Therefore rejoice, you heavens
and you who dwell in them!
But woe to the earth and the sea,
because the devil has gone down to you!
He is filled with fury,
because he knows that his time is short."

13When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the desert, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent's reach. 15Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring—those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

This is a futuristic prophesy recorded in Daniel 7:25, as well. Regarding verse 16...
Daniel 7:25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time.

While the woman (Rev. 12:1) represents the faithful and the child (Rev. 12:5) represents Christ, the rest of her children referred to are the rest of the believers who are being tested during the tribulation.


The time, times, and half a time signifies years. Time = 1 year, Times = 2 years, 1/2 time = 1/2 year, so the Church will be protected for3-1/2 years.

But there is the 'other woman' - the false church joined at the hip to the Anti-Christ...that is what this scripture is referring to...

Revelation 17:3, 18
3Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. 18The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth."

God's sacrifice is sufficient. You are mixing apples and oranges. This battle you referring to is Armageddon, the battle to end all battles, humanly and spiritually speaking.

Revelation 16:16-30 (New International Version)

16Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.
17The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and out of the temple came a loud voice from the throne, saying, "It is done!" 18Then there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder and a severe earthquake. No earthquake like it has ever occurred since man has been on earth, so tremendous was the quake. 19The great city split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed. God remembered Babylon the Great and gave her the cup filled with the wine of the fury of his wrath. 20Every island fled away and the mountains could not be found. 21From the sky huge hailstones of about a hundred pounds each fell upon men. And they cursed God on account of the plague of hail, because the plague was so terrible.

Revelation 18: 1 After this I saw another angel coming down from heaven. He had great authority, and the earth was illuminated by his splendor. 2With a mighty voice he shouted:
"Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!

The Rider on the White Horse
11I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. 12His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. "He will rule them with an iron scepter."[a] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

17And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, "Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and mighty men, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, small and great."

Rev.19: 19T hen I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to make war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21The rest of them were killed with the sword that came out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

Rev.20: 1And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.

Revelation 21
The New Jerusalem
1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away." 5He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."

Rev 21: 6 He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son.

10Then he told me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, because the time is near. 11Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy."

Rev. 22:12 "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

The is a Battle to take place that heralds in the end of this present age. The book of Revelation is a book about the future and the present. It offers hope to all believers, especially those who have suffered for their faith by proclaiming Christ's final victory over evil and the reality of eternal life with him. It tells us that Jesus is coming again, evil will be judged, the dead will be raised to judgment, resulting in eternal life or eternal destruction.

 

[JudyB]

Samuel posted.."The book of Revelation things that HAVE BEEN, ARE, and ARE to COME. Now just where do we draw these lines"

WAS,AND IS, AND IS TO COME is another name for the Eternal.

Revelation 1:5 Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits[a] before his throne, 5and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.

Revelation 1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."

Revelation 4:8 Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under his wings. Day and night they never stop saying: "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come."

 

[glorydaz]

Those Revelation scriptures you posted are describing the war that has already been fought between God & His angels and Satan & his angels over our souls and power. The battle has already been won by God.

Those who teach that this war has not taken place, but will in the future. Are teaching that Jesus work at the Cross, was insufficient. He won the victory at the cross over satan, and crushed his head, just as God told Adam and Eve in the garden he would.

Revelation makes reference to this as parenthetical, that is something that has already taken place.

Jesus stands in heaven as our advocate, there is no place for satan there.

I agree with you, Samuael. That is what I have been saying.

I agree, too.

Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

33This he said, signifying what death he should die.

 

[Bick]

Can someone explain these scriptures?

And there was war in heaven; Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels.
Rev. 12:7

And the armies of heaven, wearing fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses.
Rev. 19:14

From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and the violent take it by force.
Matt. 11:12

The above passage from Matthew is in reference to John the Baptist, and is immediately preceded by the following description of him:

Truly I tell you, among those born of women no one has arisen greater than John the Baptist; yet the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Matt. 11:11

Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.
Matt 24:34-35

MY COMMENTS: Indeed, Rev. 12:7 describes a war in heaven where the dragon (Satan) and his angels (messengers) are driven down to the earth by Michael and the other angels (two thirds). I take it for just what it says. My understanding of Revelation is, this was occurs at the middle of the 7 years tribulation. From then on Satan gives power to the anti-christ and the false prophet, and influences the armies of the nations to march against Jerusalem. At that time, Christ Jesus comes back with his angels (heavenly army) to destroy the armies, cast the anti-christ and false prophet alive into the lake of fire, and chain Satan in the abyss for 1000 years.

Matt. 11:12: First of all, an accurate translation, as seen in an Interlinear Greek-English Translation, will show the "kingdom of heaven" should be "the kingdom of the heavens." This refers to the kingdom on earth under the heavens (not in heaven), which was, and is, the hope of Israel. Daniel prophecies in Dan. 7:27:

"..And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the People of the saints of the MOST HIGH."

From John the Baptist on, there were those of the Jews, who were using violence to take the kingdom by force, if possible, IMO.

Matt. 24:34-35, is more difficult to understand, since if "this generation" was those to whom Jesus was speaking at that time, then all the things He described through the end of chapt. 24 would have taken place. But, have they? Not in my opinion.
To me, the key is The parable of the fig tree, Jesus gives before He says "this generation....etc".
The fig tree represents Israel's National Privileges, which, in Jesus day should have had good fruit.
But, Israel didn't have righteous fruit, and the Lord cursed the tree so no fruit would come for the age.
But, in verses 32 & 33, Jesus tells us that "summer is nigh" or "the return of the Lord is near", when the fig tree puts forth its leaves (that is, that at the end of this age, the end of the trib., there will be Israelites having the fruits of righteous....as pictured by the fig tree putting forth its leaves).
And, IMO, it will be "that generation" which will not pass away untill all those things be fulfilled.

 

[samuel]

My understanding of Revelation is, this was occurs at the middle of the 7 years tribulation.

What 7 years?, show me in the Bible where seven years of tribulation is mentioned. But don't! be a talking head about it.

 

[JudaicChristian]

Can someone explain these scriptures?

And there was war in heaven; Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels.
Rev. 12:7

And the armies of heaven, wearing fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses.
Rev. 19:14

From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and the violent take it by force.
Matt. 11:12

The above passage from Matthew is in reference to John the Baptist, and is immediately preceded by the following description of him:

Truly I tell you, among those born of women no one has arisen greater than John the Baptist; yet the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Matt. 11:11

Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.
Matt 24:34-35

The word "Heaven" literally means "place-s." And God called the firmament heaven.

Genesis 1.
6. And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9. And God said, Let the waters under the Heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10. And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
Luke 17:21
nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is among you."

 

[Godfrey]

There are layers in heaven, I believe.

I agree. What I was taught is that, given that Paul speaks of being caught up to the third heaven, God's dwelling place, there are three heavens of which the first is the physical heavens that we see. The second heaven is some intermediate realm which Satan and his demons still have access to - e.g., it may be here that the 'prince of Persia' withstands Gabriel on his mission to Daniel; the NT speaks of "spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms" - Eph.6.12; and presumably it is from this second heaven that Satan is evicted in Revelation 12.

 

[JudaicChristian]

There is also the Bozone layer, where all of the mystical magical beings with satan are, who with a single thought can melt your brains out. :rolling