If Christ is the first born how can he be God

[Klee shay]

Re: Thread subject

Are you in doubt as to my belief in the Lord Jesus Christ as my own personal savior for the past 69 years?

Peace,

Quasar

Quasar
Are you saying that you have been calling yourself a Christian for 69 years?
If this is so, then your in trouble my friend. I will add you to my prayer list.
God Bless you, find you and keep you. May you hear his voice as he calls you.
jg

"For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on." LUKE 18:32

Sound familiar? :wink:

 

[Klee shay]

Re: Thread subject

I know that those who do not know Jesus is God, do not know Jesus, nor do they know God the Father.

You don't know anything about anyone else's relationship with God, but you do know doctrine and practice indoctrinating God into the heart of believers. Jesus warned against the Pharisees of using the letter of the Law to keep other's from the Kingdom of God also, while not entering in themselves.

Jesus called those in the Old Testament who said they knew God but did not believe that he was God, vipers and hypocrites.

Not correct. Jesus admonished them for denying what he did in his Father's name. Jesus never taught that he was God. One with God, yes absolutely, but Jesus himself never taught that he was God. If you can find a scripture where he does, then I would be interested in seeing it to better my understanding.

I have no righteousness of my own. I only have the righteousness of Jesus Christ imputed to me as he came in the flesh to overcome sins wickedness.

Your understanding comes from doctrine and it is this doctrine which teaches you that you're a humble servant who is only the messenger. This justifies any harsh treatment you deliver towards others for it is not YOUR righteousness but the Lord's.

you know Jesus Christ as LORD then you know him as God almighty. If you do not know Jesus as LORD then you have been deceived.

Deceived by the testimony of John the Baptist that he was the Son of God?
Deceived by the testimony of Jesus that he was the Son of God?
Deceived by the testimony of Peter that he was Christ, the Son of the living God?

You would call these testimonies lies and those who believe them deceived?

 

[Quasar]

Thread subject

Greetings:

Quote by jgredline:

>>>Quasar
Are you saying that you have been calling yourself a Christian for 69 years?
If this is so, then your in trouble my friend. I will add you to my prayer list.
God Bless you, find you and keep you. May you hear his voice as he calls you. jg<<<


I would appreciate any and all prayers from my brothers and sisters in Christ. Thank you, and I will pray for you as well.


Quote by Solo:

>>>I know that those who do not know Jesus is God, do not know Jesus, nor do they know God the Father. Jesus called those in the Old Testament who said they knew God but did not believe that he was God, vipers and hypocrites. I have no righteousness of my own. I only have the righteousness of Jesus Christ imputed to me as he came in the flesh to overcome sins wickedness. If you know Jesus Christ as LORD then you know him as God almighty. If you do not know Jesus as LORD then you have been deceived.<<<


<SNIP> Since you have made false accusations, it is clear you don't read; and if you do, you don't understand. And I will pray for you that the Holy Spirit will start giving you the motivation of reading and understanding of His Holy Bible. FYI, I hold a BA from Prairie Bible Institute, in Three Hills, Alberta, Canada, in ministry/pastoral [BAM/PA] and an MA from Liberty University, in education, Christian history, theology and prophecy.

I have also held memberships in the Presbyterian, Brethren, Methodist [Not United], Lutheran [MO Syn.], and So. Baptist, where I still hold a membership. Though I now refer to myself as non-denominational, because I reject some of the false doctrine and theology, still retained by mainstream Christianity. To complete the profile, I am also a WW2 Vet, who spent two years in the Pacific/Asiatic theater with the Army Air Corps. And now, please give us your qualifications.


Quote by Mutzrein:

>>>In that case Vic - what does this mean? - taken from John 17.

"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. "Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world. "Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them."<<<


Right on the mark! One of the most common errors made by Christians who do not understand, the Father and the Son are two entirely separate personages, who are ONE, THROUGH THE ONE SPIRIT, IN THE VERY SAME WAY ALL WE BELIEVERS ARE ONE IN BOTH THE FATHER AND THE SON. BUT WE ARE ALL VERY SEPARATE AND UNIQUE PERSONS, IN THE VERY SAME WAY THE FATHER AND THE SON ARE. Jn.17:21-22 and 1 Cor.12:12013.


Quote by Klee shay:

>>>You don't know anything about anyone else's relationship with God, but you do know doctrine and practice indoctrinating God into the heart of believers. Jesus warned against the Pharisees of using the letter of the Law to keep other's from the Kingdom of God also, while not entering in themselves.<<<


AMEN TO THAT, BROTHER!


Blessings,


Quasar

 

[Quasar]

Thread subject

Quotes by jgredline and MrV:

>>>MrVersatile48 wrote:
Just time to say Christ was not created

John 1, Colossians 1 & Hebrews 1 make it crystal clear that Christ is the Almighty Creator in human form

That's why only He could pay the penalty for sin

Hebrew 'Elohim', translated 'the Lord', is plural - yet it is consistently used with singular verbs, to demonstrate the 3-in-1 Godhead

Jesus is called the Lord because He IS

Must go

Ian


Your exactly right. That is my point. There are many people on this board who actully believe Jesus was created. I sit back read their retorict and laugh.
_________________
God is one in essence, but three in persons.God has one nature,but three centers of consciousness.That is,there is only one What in God, but there are three whos.There is one it, but three I’s.This is a mystery, but not a contradiction.<<<


First of all, the human [man/God] Jesus did not exist until the Holy Spirit incarnated His created Spirit through the virgin Mary, in Mt.1:20, Lk,1:35, 2:6, and Heb.10:5-6. When He received His deity, empowered to give/baptise with the Holy Spirit [Mt.3:11, Mk.1:8, Lk.3:16, Jn.1:33, 20:21-22, 1 Jn.3:24, 1 Jn.4:13 and Acts 2:1-3]. It is also at this very scenario that Jesus became the Son of God, and literally, God the Son! Now do any of you doubt my thorough belief in Jesus deity? If you still do, then you haven't read what I have posted.

As well as to perform more than nineteen noteable miracles, of healing the blind, the deaf, people with terminal illnesses, drive demons out of people, read the minds of others, and to raise people from the dead! No ordinary human being has ever had such powers as that. Both Paul and Thomas rightfully called Him God, in Jn.20:28 and Titus 2:13, as well as The Father calling Him God, in Ps.45:6-7 and in Isa.7:14, that were repeated when they were fulfilled in Mt.1:23 and Heb.1:8-9.

But what about the actual origins of the pre-incarnated Jesus we are told about in His own 'autobiography,' written by Solomon, through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, in Pr.8:22-36. The very same inspiration, God breathed, as that which is found in Ps.22, written by David and in Isa.52 and 53, written by the prophet, Isaiah.

The entire chapter of Pr.8 is about the wisdom of God, the amenties, and WHAT it is. However, when it comes to verses 22-36, it is about WHO the wisdom of God is, which is without any doubt in the world, the pre-incarnated Spirit of Jesus. As found in 1 Cor.1:24 and Col.2:2-3, as the wisdom, power and knowledge of God.

That the Spirit of the pre-incarnated Jesus is clearly delineated in the following Scriptures:

"The Lord POSSESSED me in the beginning of His way, before His works of old. I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning or ever the earth was. When there were no depths [oceans], I WAS BROUGHT FORTH - when there were no fountains abounding with water. Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was, I WAS BROUGHT FORTH." Pr.8:22-25 KJV.

Note the following passages in connection with the term, POSSESSER.

"And he blessed him, and said, 'Blessed be Abram of the Most High God, POSSESSOR OF HEAVEN AND EARTH." Gen.14:19 KJV.

"And Abram said to the king of Sodom, 'I have lifted up mine hand unto the Lord, the Most High God, the POSSESSOR OF HEAVEN AND EARTH." Gen.14:22 KJV. [Ditto for the NASB].


From the the Amplified Bible, the translation is, "...POSSESSOR AND MAKER of heaven and earth." From the NIV, that part of the passage is rendered, "...Creator of heaven and earth."


And again from, the NIV, the passage in Pr.8:22-25 reads as follows:

"The Lord brought me forth as the first of His works, before His deeds of old; I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began. When there were no oceans, I WAS GIVEN BIRTH, when there were no springs abounding with water; before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I WAS GIVEN BIRTH."


Pr.8:30, states, "Then I WAS THE CRAFTSMAN AT HIS SIDE. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in His presence." Which is in perfect harmony with Jn.1:1-2, Gen.1:26 and 11:7.

It is also in complete harmony with Col.1:15, where Paul states that He is the FIRSTBORN over all creation. And the term FIRSTBORN in vs 15 means exactly the same as it does in vs 18, exactly what the Word of God intended it to mean.

With reference to Jesus prayer to His Father in Jn.17:21-22, it pertains to all we believers being ONE with both He and our Father in heaven as they are, is it not? It doesn't matter whether you call it 'essence' or 'persons,' we are all ONE, THROUGH THE ONE BODY OF CHRIST, BY ONE SPIRIT [1 Cor.12:12-13], BUT WE ARE ALL INDIVIDUAL AND UNIQUE PERSONS, IN THE VERY SAME WAY THE FATHER AND THE SON ARE!

In addition to that, the Scriptures clearly identify God as the Holy Spirit, by Jesus, Paul and John. [Jn.4:24; 2 Cor.3:17-18; Col.1:15 and 1 Jn.4:12]. Therefore, the Holy Spirit IS ALSO THE FATHER OF THE INCARNATED JESUS. [Mt.1:20 and Lk.1:35]. God identified Himself as the Holy Spirit in Gen.1:2 and Lev.11:44.

All of the above is from the Word of God, so if you feel any laughter coming on, it will be at the Scriptures, not at me! It is the Scriptural description of God/Jesus. And just how does it differ from the doctrine of the Trinity?

1.It proves the pre-incarnated Spirit of Jesus was created and is not co-eternal with the Holy Spirit of God.

2. Yet it also proves the divinity of the Son of God, God the Son, Jesus Christ.

3. It proves there is only one God in the OT, but there are two from the incarnated birth of Jesus Christ. See Rev.20:6 and 21:22-23.

4. It proves the Son is not co-equal with the Holy Spirit of God, as in Jn.14:28.

5. It proves God is the Holy Spirit and the Father, that reveal the altered Mt.28:19 and insert of 1 Jn.5:7 to be fraudulent.

6. It proves there is no such thing as the "essence" of three persons making one God, because there are only two, rather than three.

7. There is but one Holy Spirit, not two, if it can be clearly seen, that God is Spirit.

That's sufficient for this post!

Peace,

Quasar

 

[Vic C.]

Right on the mark! One of the most common errors made by Christians who do not understand, the Father and the Son are two entirely separate personages, who are ONE,

That's my point and it has been my belief for quite a while. :-?

This thread is getting stupid, people. It seems some of you are so intent to post your beliefs that you are not reading other member's post properly. People are being accused of things they don't even believe.

For instance:

The issue here IS NOT ABOUT THE DEITY OF JESUS CHRIST, but rather the proper description of God as it has been passed on to us from the Word of God Himself. Jesus is not only the Son of God, he is literally God the Son, as well [Ps.45:6-7, Isa.7:14, Mt.1:23 and Heb.1:8-9].

Here we have not only an admittance of believing Jesus is the Son of God but also that He is literally God the Son. Yet, here are some responses to that poster:

I know I will not be able to change your mind and nor am I trying to change your mine. My defense of the faith and proper exposition is for people like Oscar who is learning and is hungry for truth. I do Pray that the Holy Spirit (Wisdom) will speak to your and other peoples hearts that deny Jesus is GOD.

Then again I am smart enough to believe in the deity of Christ, so go figure.

... do you confess that Jesus is the Son of God?

Am I the only one reading the posts or did I misread what I quoted? :-?

 

[Solo]

Re: Thread subject

I know that those who do not know Jesus is God, do not know Jesus, nor do they know God the Father.

You don't know anything about anyone else's relationship with God, but you do know doctrine and practice indoctrinating God into the heart of believers. Jesus warned against the Pharisees of using the letter of the Law to keep other's from the Kingdom of God also, while not entering in themselves.

I know much about other's relationship with God from the indwelling Holy Spirit who has taught me these last 23 years of discerning evil spirits and the Spirit of God, truth and lies, good and evil. The Pharisees claimed to know God, but Jesus set them straight when he said their father was the devil, and that they did not know the father because they did not know him. The Pharisees continually attempted to kill Jesus, but the time was not yet, until God determined that he would give himself a ransom for the many. Here is what the Pharisees were going to stone Jesus for:

32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. John 10:32-33

The Spirit of God is amazing as he reveals the spiritual condition of others so that a believer can pray, instruct, and reprove if necessary.

Jesus called those in the Old Testament who said they knew God but did not believe that he was God, vipers and hypocrites.

Not correct. Jesus admonished them for denying what he did in his Father's name. Jesus never taught that he was God. One with God, yes absolutely, but Jesus himself never taught that he was God. If you can find a scripture where he does, then I would be interested in seeing it to better my understanding.

Jesus admonished the unbelievers in the Old Testament for denying him being God, the Christ, the Redeemer, the Saviour. The Unbelieving recognized that he was claiming to be God as indicated in the above scripture of John 10:32-33.

I have no righteousness of my own. I only have the righteousness of Jesus Christ imputed to me as he came in the flesh to overcome sins wickedness.

Your understanding comes from doctrine and it is this doctrine which teaches you that you're a humble servant who is only the messenger. This justifies any harsh treatment you deliver towards others for it is not YOUR righteousness but the Lord's.

My understanding comes from God's doctrine as revealed by his Holy Spirit, and not doctrines of devils by which the enemy of God deceived many. Instructing, reproving, and correcting with the truth of the Word to those who are interested and seeking God is not harsh treatment of others. Delivering the truth so that the lies and deceptions of the enemy can be manifested for all to see is harsh to those of the enemy's ranks.

you know Jesus Christ as LORD then you know him as God almighty. If you do not know Jesus as LORD then you have been deceived.

Deceived by the testimony of John the Baptist that he was the Son of God?

John the Baptist declared Jesus as Jehovah and Elohim, LORD and God.
See Isaiah 40:3-5 for the prophesy fulfilled with John the Baptist crying in the wilderness preparing the way of the LORD JEHOVAH, making the paths of GOD ELOHIM straight.

3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. 4 Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: 5 And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it. Isaiah 40:3

Deceived by the testimony of Jesus that he was the Son of God?

19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Matthew 28:19

7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. Matthew 4:7

Jesus said to him, Away from me, Satan! For it is written: "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.
Matthew 4:10

No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known. John 1:18

You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am [the one I claim to be], you will indeed die in your sins. John 8:23-24

I tell you the truth, Jesus answered, before Abraham was born, I am! John 8:58

I and the Father are one. John 10:30

But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father. John 10:38

For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form Colossians 2:9

When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades. Revelation 1:17-18


Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus' glory and spoke about him. John 12:41 - As the context shows, this implied the Tetragrammaton in Isaiah 6:1 refers to Jesus.

Deceived by the testimony of Peter that he was Christ, the Son of the living God?

Peter recognized Jesus Christ as Lord God.

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1 Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

1 Peter 2:3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

1 Peter 2:13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

1 Peter 3:6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.

1 Peter 3:12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.

1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

2 Peter 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

2 Peter 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Peter 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

2 Peter 1:14 Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.

2 Peter 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

2 Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

2 Peter 2:11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.

2 Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

2 Peter 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

2 Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

You would call these testimonies lies and those who believe them deceived?

The testimonies of the writers of the Word of God that reveal that Jesus is God Almighty are not lies, and those that believe that Jesus is God Almighty believe this only because the Father in Heaven revealed this to them. The human understanding will not permit the belief that God is one God in three persons, this can only be done by faith. It is easier for the human understanding to belief that God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit can not be one God; it doesn't take much faith to believe this.

.

 

[jgredline]

AMEN!!

 

[Quasar]

Thread subject

In one ear and out the other! Like Jesus said in LK.16:31, there are those who reject the truth, even if someone returned from the dead to prove it to them!

Ask a dozen trinitarians to explain their doctrine to you, and like on this thread, you will have twelve different solutions! Straight out of la la land!

You have only to understand God is the Holy Spirit and is also, therefore, the Father of the incarnated Jesus. All it takes, is reading your Bibles rather than the man made Creeds.

Blessings,

Quasar

 

[jgredline]

Re: Thread subject

In one ear and out the other! Like Jesus said in LK.16:31, there are those who reject the truth, even if someone returned from the dead to prove it to them!

Ask a dozen trinitarians to explain their doctrine to you, and like on this thread, you will have twelve different solutions! Straight out of la la land!

You have only to understand God is the Holy Spirit and is also, therefore, the Father of the incarnated Jesus. All it takes, is reading your Bibles rather than the man made Creeds.

Blessings,

Quasar

Quasar
Exactly. You need to read your bible to see that you must be born again to understand the scriptures. I know where your coming from but its simply not true.
Quasar
Do you believe that Jesus Christ is was and always will be God?

 

[mutzrein]

This thread is getting stupid, people. It seems some of you are so intent to post your beliefs that you are not reading other member's post properly. People are being accused of things they don't even believe.

And Vic. Some people are not even reponding to posts at all. :-? Could it be you missed it?

 

[Klee shay]

Re: Thread subject

I know much about other's relationship with God from the indwelling Holy Spirit who has taught me these last 23 years of discerning evil spirits and the Spirit of God, truth and lies, good and evil.

Then I hope you don't mind if I test this claim against scripture:

9. The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of the temptatons, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgement to be punished:

10. But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government, Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

11. Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusations against them before the Lord.

I know you are capable of judgement, but is it righteous judgement? We all have to ask ourselves this question every day.

The Pharisees claimed to know God, but Jesus set them straight when he said their father was the devil, and that they did not know the father because they did not know him. The Pharisees continually attempted to kill Jesus, but the time was not yet, until God determined that he would give himself a ransom for the many. Here is what the Pharisees were going to stone Jesus for:

32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. John 10:32-33

The Pharisees claimed to represent God but knew him not. Which is proven with the scripture you have provided. Is it such a strange concept then, as Christian representatives we also claim to know the one true God while completely missing the Spirit of God in others? Instead, labelling them all of the antichrist who do not agree with the common, socially acceptable translation of this era.

How many people have died under this premise of denying the one true God of the day? The traps of the Pharisees are also the traps of the Christians, no matter which denomination you choose.

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

So by what do you adhere to your understanding of the scriptures? I realise you've suggested it in your comment bellow.

The Spirit of God is amazing as he reveals the spiritual condition of others so that a believer can pray, instruct, and reprove if necessary.

Yes the Spirit of God is amazing and it does reveal much about the motivations of others. Yet it does not judge before the last day of judgement and this is where you should evaluate your conduct.

We are accountable to God in all our conduct and this is why Jesus taught very astutely the importance of loving one another. It isn't just a concept, it's a way of life in Christ to bring God pleasure.

Jesus admonished the unbelievers in the Old Testament for denying him being God, the Christ, the Redeemer, the Saviour. The Unbelieving recognized that he was claiming to be God as indicated in the above scripture of John 10:32-33.

Please show me where Jesus admonished them for not believeing he was God? In his own words please.

For I see in JOHN 10:36 which replies to their charge of blasphemy. "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thous blasphemist; because I said, I am the Son of God?"

Jesus highlighted the grounds of their charge of blasphemy as the Son of God. If anything he set the record straight. For if they did believe he was calling himself God, Jesus remedied that with the clarification of his sonship?

My understanding comes from God's doctrine as revealed by his Holy Spirit, and not doctrines of devils by which the enemy of God deceived many. Instructing, reproving, and correcting with the truth of the Word to those who are interested and seeking God is not harsh treatment of others. Delivering the truth so that the lies and deceptions of the enemy can be manifested for all to see is harsh to those of the enemy's ranks.

The man who chooses not to heed the example of Peter is presumptuous in their understanding of God. Peter denied knowing Jesus more than once when he was taken to Pilate. If this Apostle who saw Jesus, touched Jesus and walked with him was susceptible to the doctrines of devils then who are you to be perfected in Christ so soon?

No-one has been judged as righteous yet and rewarded accordingly. This is reserved for after the last day of judgement and Christ returns.

John the Baptist declared Jesus as Jehovah and Elohim, LORD and God.
See Isaiah 40:3-5 for the prophesy fulfilled with John the Baptist crying in the wilderness preparing the way of the LORD JEHOVAH, making the paths of GOD ELOHIM straight.

I do not see that as the true testimony from John the Baptist. Let me return to scripture for a moment:

"John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me." JOHN 1:15

"For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." JOHN 1:17-18

"He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said thE prophet Esaias." JOHN 1:23

"The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me. And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel therefore am I come baptising with water. And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptise with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God." JOHN 1:29-34

There is no ambiguity here as to who exactly John was confessing. "And I knew him not," John says twice! No ambiguity as to who Jesus was before John made manifest to ISRAEL the Lamb of God and the Son of God who was prefered before him.

3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. 4 Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: 5 And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it. Isaiah 40:3

John the Baptist confessed that he knew him not, but you say you know through history who Isaiah was referring to?

Jesus was made manifest to Israel by a voice crying in the wilderness and baptizing with water, but the actual testimony John the Baptist gave was of the Lamb of God, the Son of God and one who was preferred before him.

Deceived by the testimony of Jesus that he was the Son of God?

19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Matthew 28:19

7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. Matthew 4:7

Jesus said to him, Away from me, Satan! For it is written: "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.
Matthew 4:10

No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known. John 1:18

You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am [the one I claim to be], you will indeed die in your sins. John 8:23-24

I tell you the truth, Jesus answered, before Abraham was born, I am! John 8:58

I and the Father are one. John 10:30

But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father. John 10:38

For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form Colossians 2:9

When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades. Revelation 1:17-18

I don't know what bible you're using but my original King James Version doesn't use some of those titles yours has. I guess that's the benefit (or loss) of newer translations. You can get a more suscinct version of what mankind really wants to believe.

Do you think the people of Israel would have been so beguilded by other Gods, if their rulers stuck with the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and continued to teach as such? I still have one God and Jesus is his annointed representative - a son with the authority of God but who does not seek to grasp his throne for himself. That was the enemy's goal. :wink:

Deceived by the testimony of Peter that he was Christ, the Son of the living God?

Peter recognized Jesus Christ as Lord God.

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1 Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

1 Peter 2:3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

1 Peter 2:13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

1 Peter 3:6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.

1 Peter 3:12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.

1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

2 Peter 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

2 Peter 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Peter 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

2 Peter 1:14 Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.

2 Peter 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

2 Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

2 Peter 2:11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.

2 Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

2 Peter 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

2 Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

I have absolutely nothing against these blessed teachings of Peter, so long as it's seen through his first revelation from God the Father.

"And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. and Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjonas: for flesh and bloth hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven." MATTHEW 16:16-17

It comes as no surprise that you didn't use this in your rendition of Peter's testimonies, for flesh and blood didn't reveal to Peter who he was, but the Father. The Father desired that Jesus be declared as Christ the Son of the living God. This effected Peter in all his teachings and it should us as well.

The testimonies of the writers of the Word of God that reveal that Jesus is God Almighty are not lies, and those that believe that Jesus is God Almighty believe this only because the Father in Heaven revealed this to them.

Are you forgetting that flesh and blood did not reveal to Peter that Jesus was Christ, the Son of the living God?

The human understanding will not permit the belief that God is one God in three persons, this can only be done by faith. It is easier for the human understanding to belief that God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit can not be one God; it doesn't take much faith to believe this

And yet John the Baptist played his part in God's plan after confessing, "And I knew him not."

I believe Jesus and God are one. I believe Jesus is the Son of God the Lamb of God and our means to salvation. Yet it was the Father, whom Jesus also taught me to give all the glory to. After all, Jesus did not seek to steal his father's throne but rather through obedience to his father's will, even until death - he will be given his own throne and his own kingdom in all righteousness.

And why? Because his father is good and this is what Jesus wanted us to see.

 

[Klee shay]

Sorry double post

 

[Solo]

Re: Thread subject

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I know much about other's relationship with God from the indwelling Holy Spirit who has taught me these last 23 years of discerning evil spirits and the Spirit of God, truth and lies, good and evil.

Then I hope you don't mind if I test this claim against scripture:

[quote="II PETER:9-11":a1ace]9. The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of the temptatons, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgement to be punished:

10. But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government, Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

11. Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusations against them before the Lord.

[/quote:a1ace]

3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. 2 Corinthians 11:3-4

6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. Galatians 1:6-6-9

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Matthew 24:23-27

I know you are capable of judgement, but is it righteous judgement? We all have to ask ourselves this question every day.

51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. 53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

54 And he said also to the people, When ye see a cloud rise out of the west, straightway ye say, There cometh a shower; and so it is. 55 And when ye see the south wind blow, ye say, There will be heat; and it cometh to pass. 56 Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time? 57 Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right? Luke 12:51-57

The Pharisees claimed to know God, but Jesus set them straight when he said their father was the devil, and that they did not know the father because they did not know him. The Pharisees continually attempted to kill Jesus, but the time was not yet, until God determined that he would give himself a ransom for the many. Here is what the Pharisees were going to stone Jesus for:

32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. John 10:32-33

The Pharisees claimed to represent God but knew him not. Which is proven with the scripture you have provided. Is it such a strange concept then, as Christian representatives we also claim to know the one true God while completely missing the Spirit of God in others? Instead, labelling them all of the antichrist who do not agree with the common, socially acceptable translation of this era.

The scriptures as inspired by the Holy Spirit and interpreted by the Holy Spirit reveal that the test of a spirit being from God or not is that every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God; this spirit is antichrist.

1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1 John 4:1-3

How many people have died under this premise of denying the one true God of the day? The traps of the Pharisees are also the traps of the Christians, no matter which denomination you choose.

The warnings of God given to mankind through his Word by the Holy Spirit will be heeded by those who come to Jesus Christ, the light. Those who refuse Jesus Christ are eternally condemned already, and those who believe that they are doing God's work will kill believers as they have all through history. One who proclaims the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ will not go through this life without being attacked, and possibly killed. You see, those who are born of God are not citizens of the world, but are only passing through until they arrive at the Master's mansions.

[quote="II PETER 1:20":a1ace]Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

So by what do you adhere to your understanding of the scriptures? I realise you've suggested it in your comment bellow.

The Spirit of God is amazing as he reveals the spiritual condition of others so that a believer can pray, instruct, and reprove if necessary.

Yes the Spirit of God is amazing and it does reveal much about the motivations of others. Yet it does not judge before the last day of judgement and this is where you should evaluate your conduct.
[/quote:a1ace]

Our spiritual discernment as believers is encourged as we go into the world. Jesus told us than many false prophets were in the world, and many would come. He said that they were wolves dressed in sheep's clothing. We are to be aware of these false prophets and teachers, and to alert our brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus of the same. We are to stand up and blow the trumpet to warn our brothers and sisters of the enemy's position and tactics, so that they do not get swallowed in the mired hole of bondage created by satan. We are all led astray by our own lusts whatever they are, and in order to keep from falling into the garbage of the enemy, we are to walk in the spirit and not in the flesh. You are doing to me exactly what I am doing to those who do not believe that Jesus is God. I don't know the difficulty in understanding the concept of God being one in three persons. It comes very easy for me, and I give the credit to the Holy Spirit. You ask me not to judge, yet you judge me. Kind of silly isn't it.

We are accountable to God in all our conduct and this is why Jesus taught very astutely the importance of loving one another. It isn't just a concept, it's a way of life in Christ to bring God pleasure.

Paul said that those who preach another gospel other than the gospel of Jesus, let them be accursed. Did Paul fail to love them? What motivated him to proclaim them accursed? Could this be the reason that some proclaim that Paul, the Apostle chosen by the risen Christ Jesus, is a false prophet, teacher (which is a lie from satan himself)?

Jesus admonished the unbelievers in the Old Testament for denying him being God, the Christ, the Redeemer, the Saviour. The Unbelieving recognized that he was claiming to be God as indicated in the above scripture of John 10:32-33.

Please show me where Jesus admonished them for not believeing he was God? In his own words please.

Jesus was not the Son of God until he was born of Mary in the flesh. Before this time Jesus was the Word God, Jehovah God, Almighty God, Everlasting Father. (Isaiah 9:6)

After God came in the flesh as Jesus Christ, Immanuel (God with us) he taught the Jews who God is, and to repent, believe, and follow Him. Jesus told the Jews that he was before Abraham, and that he was the I am. The Jews knew very well that Moses said that the LORD JEHOVAH GOD said to tell them that HE was I AM.

57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. John 8:57-59

13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations. Exodus 3:13-15

For I see in JOHN 10:36 which replies to their charge of blasphemy. "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thous blasphemist; because I said, I am the Son of God?"

Jesus highlighted the grounds of their charge of blasphemy as the Son of God. If anything he set the record straight. For if they did believe he was calling himself God, Jesus remedied that with the clarification of his sonship?

The Jews knew full well who Jesus was claiming to be as he called himself the Son of God. They recognized that he was claiming to be the ONE JEHOVAH God. That is why they were going to stone him. They had Jesus killed because they believed, he as a man, was claiming to be God.

30 I and my Father are one. 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. John 10:30-33

My understanding comes from God's doctrine as revealed by his Holy Spirit, and not doctrines of devils by which the enemy of God deceived many. Instructing, reproving, and correcting with the truth of the Word to those who are interested and seeking God is not harsh treatment of others. Delivering the truth so that the lies and deceptions of the enemy can be manifested for all to see is harsh to those of the enemy's ranks.

The man who chooses not to heed the example of Peter is presumptuous in their understanding of God. Peter denied knowing Jesus more than once when he was taken to Pilate. If this Apostle who saw Jesus, touched Jesus and walked with him was susceptible to the doctrines of devils then who are you to be perfected in Christ so soon?

You speak of Peter and Jesus prior to the crucifixion and prior to the Holy Spirit at Pentacost. Apples and Oranges. The fact is that there are many who believe that they are Christians, and they have not been born again, born of God as Jesus teaches in John 3. It is those individuals that require prayer and instruction in the Word of God so that the false teachers and false prophets do not bring them into bondage to a lie. If you do not see the importance of proclaiming the gospel of Jesus Christ to the world, then you are misunderstanding the commission given to us by the LORD Jesus Christ.

No-one has been judged as righteous yet and rewarded accordingly. This is reserved for after the last day of judgement and Christ returns.

And all will be judged and all will be given a reward according to their works. Those that are not born again will be cast away into everlasting punishment. Those who are born again will enter into eternal life.

John the Baptist declared Jesus as Jehovah and Elohim, LORD and God.
See Isaiah 40:3-5 for the prophesy fulfilled with John the Baptist crying in the wilderness preparing the way of the LORD JEHOVAH, making the paths of GOD ELOHIM straight.

I do not see that as the true testimony from John the Baptist. Let me return to scripture for a moment:

"John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me." JOHN 1:15

"For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." JOHN 1:17-18

"He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said thE prophet Esaias." JOHN 1:23

"The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me. And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel therefore am I come baptising with water. And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptise with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God." JOHN 1:29-34

There is no ambiguity here as to who exactly John was confessing. "And I knew him not," John says twice! No ambiguity as to who Jesus was before John made manifest to ISRAEL the Lamb of God and the Son of God who was prefered before him.

John the Baptist was born before Jesus was born. John came physically into the world six months before Jesus (Luke 1). John is speaking to the crowd introducing Jesus, the Lamb of God, to them and he says that Jesus was before him and he knew him not even though John was born before Jesus. John was speaking that Jesus was before John which is true because Jesus is the Word. Also, the gospels record that John the Baptist was the one preparing the way of the LORD JEHOVAH, making straight the path of God ELOHIM.

3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. 4 Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: 5 And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it. Isaiah 40:3

John the Baptist confessed that he knew him not, but you say you know through history who Isaiah was referring to?

Jesus was made manifest to Israel by a voice crying in the wilderness and baptizing with water, but the actual testimony John the Baptist gave was of the Lamb of God, the Son of God and one who was preferred before him.

Isaiah prophesied that one crying in the wilderness would prepare the way of LORD JEHOVAH, and make straight the path of God ELOHIM. All four gospels declare that John was the voice in the wilderness, and that he was preparing the way for Jesus Christ, the Son of God, God incarnate. Believe the Word of God or not. We all have this charge before us.

[quote="Klee shay":a1ace]
Deceived by the testimony of Jesus that he was the Son of God?

19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Matthew 28:19

7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. Matthew 4:7

Jesus said to him, Away from me, Satan! For it is written: "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.
Matthew 4:10

No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known. John 1:18

You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am [the one I claim to be], you will indeed die in your sins. John 8:23-24

I tell you the truth, Jesus answered, before Abraham was born, I am! John 8:58

I and the Father are one. John 10:30

But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father. John 10:38

For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form Colossians 2:9

When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades. Revelation 1:17-18

I don't know what bible you're using but my original King James Version doesn't use some of those titles yours has. I guess that's the benefit (or loss) of newer translations. You can get a more suscinct version of what mankind really wants to believe.

Do you think the people of Israel would have been so beguilded by other Gods, if their rulers stuck with the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and continued to teach as such? I still have one God and Jesus is his annointed representative - a son with the authority of God but who does not seek to grasp his throne for himself. That was the enemy's goal. :wink:[/quote:a1ace]

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Matthew 28:19 KJV

Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. Matthew 4:7 KJV

Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Matthew 4:10 KJV

No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. John 1:18 KJV

23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:23-24 KJV

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. John 8:58 KJV

I and my Father are one. John 10:30 KJV

But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. John 10:38 KJV

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Colossians 2:9 KJV

17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. Revelation 1:17-18 KJV

I believe that the Jews were blinded as God intended, so that the word would go out to the Gentiles, and I believe that the throne of Son of God is the throne given to Him by God, and that the Son of God's throne is God's throne as Hebrews declares.

1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. 2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. 3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory. 4 And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke. Isaiah 6:1-4

37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: 38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? 39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. 41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.

42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue: 43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. 45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. 46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. John 12:44-48

[quote="Klee shay":a1ace]
Deceived by the testimony of Peter that he was Christ, the Son of the living God?

Peter recognized Jesus Christ as Lord God.

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1 Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

1 Peter 2:3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

1 Peter 2:13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

1 Peter 3:6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.

1 Peter 3:12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.

1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

2 Peter 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

2 Peter 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Peter 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

2 Peter 1:14 Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.

2 Peter 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

2 Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

2 Peter 2:11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.

2 Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

2 Peter 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

2 Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

I have absolutely nothing against these blessed teachings of Peter, so long as it's seen through his first revelation from God the Father.

"And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. and Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjonas: for flesh and bloth hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven." MATTHEW 16:16-17

It comes as no surprise that you didn't use this in your rendition of Peter's testimonies, for flesh and blood didn't reveal to Peter who he was, but the Father. The Father desired that Jesus be declared as Christ the Son of the living God. This effected Peter in all his teachings and it should us as well.
[/quote:a1ace]

Exactly, and flesh and blood did not reveal to me that Jesus is God Almighty the Everlasting Father. God the Father did, through his Holy Spirit which dwells within me.

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6

The testimonies of the writers of the Word of God that reveal that Jesus is God Almighty are not lies, and those that believe that Jesus is God Almighty believe this only because the Father in Heaven revealed this to them.

Are you forgetting that flesh and blood did not reveal to Peter that Jesus was Christ, the Son of the living God?

God the Father revealed the Word of God to the writers of the scriptures by the inspiration of God the Spirit, and the interpretation of the Word of God is the Spirit and is of no private interpretation of flesh and blood. Flesh and blood will not enter the Kingdom of God.

The human understanding will not permit the belief that God is one God in three persons, this can only be done by faith. It is easier for the human understanding to belief that God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit can not be one God; it doesn't take much faith to believe this

And yet John the Baptist played his part in God's plan after confessing, "And I knew him not."

When Jesus was the Word, creator God, John the baptist did not know him, but after John the Baptist was born, he knew Jesus because John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit even from the womb.

13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. 14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth. 15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. Luke 1:13-15

I believe Jesus and God are one. I believe Jesus is the Son of God the Lamb of God and our means to salvation. Yet it was the Father, whom Jesus also taught me to give all the glory to. After all, Jesus did not seek to steal his father's throne but rather through obedience to his father's will, even until death - he will be given his own throne and his own kingdom in all righteousness.

And why? Because his father is good and this is what Jesus wanted us to see.

Jesus thought it not robbery to make himself equal to God.

4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Philipians 2:4-11
.

 

[Oscar3]

Klee sha
Do they have bibles in australia ?

 

[Quasar]

Re: Thread subject

In one ear and out the other! Like Jesus said in LK.16:31, there are those who reject the truth, even if someone returned from the dead to prove it to them!

Ask a dozen trinitarians to explain their doctrine to you, and like on this thread, you will have twelve different solutions! Straight out of la la land!

You have only to understand God is the Holy Spirit and is also, therefore, the Father of the incarnated Jesus. All it takes, is reading your Bibles rather than the man made Creeds.

Blessings,

Quasar

Quasar
Exactly. You need to read your bible to see that you must be born again to understand the scriptures. I know where your coming from but its simply not true.
Quasar
Do you believe that Jesus Christ is was and always will be God?

Listen carefully! Your immature argument reveals your complete lack of understanding of the Bible pertaining to the Scriptural description of God, and is the epitome of ignorance. You have been lead to the light and if you read it, you didn't understand it.

If you would like to compare credentials - go for it! I hold two degrees from two different Bible Institutes with PG work with three others, beginning in '41! What's yours?

As do all amateurs when they are unable to support their claims with Scripture, they attack the person who opposes their views. I highly recommend that you focus on the subject and off the attacks on people in the future!

Peace,

Quasar

 

[Oscar3]

Quesar
What bible institudes did you get your degrees in?
I think its great
Have you written any books?
Do you have a web site?
Thanks Oscar

 

[mutzrein]

This thread is getting stupid, people. It seems some of you are so intent to post your beliefs that you are not reading other member's post properly. People are being accused of things they don't even believe.

And Vic. Some people are not even reponding to posts at all. :-? Could it be you missed it?

Are ya there Vic? Haven't seen a response to this one yet. Cheers.