I'm very confused..

[Common Sense]

I originally wrote this for people who read my blog but decided to post it here to hear what other christians think. I've already posted this on a non-christian website and received many feedbacks. I'd like to hear from christians as well.

CLICK HERE FOR MY THOUGHTS ON CHRISTIANITY

 

[Solo]

I originally wrote this for people who read my blog but decided to post it here to hear what other christians think. I've already posted this on a non-christian website and received many feedbacks. I'd like to hear from christians as well.

CLICK HERE FOR MY THOUGHTS ON CHRISTIANITY

Common Sense,

The fact is that God created the heavens and the earth, and in it he established man and woman with one commandment. Do not eat of the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil. They disobeyed and sin entered the creation that God had made and found good. God told Adam and Eve that if they ate of the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil they would die. They began to physically die, and they were booted out of the paradise that God had made for them. Each offspring from Adam and Eve inherited the sin nature and the wages of sin passed on to all generations is death. All are condemned as the Bible teaches in Romans 1 and there is no one with an excuse.

Now, is God only just therefore all sinners must die? Yes unless his mercy establishes a means by which we can escape eternal condemnation. That means was planned before the foundations of the world whereby Jesus Christ would give himself as the payment for our sin. Jesus was born sinless as God is his Father. Sin passes on to us from Adam, therefore since man was not Jesus father, Jesus is sinless. Jesus died on the cross for our sins, past, present, and future. Jesus told Nicodemus that in order to enter into the kingdom of heaven we must be born again. That is we must be born of the water, the physical birth, and born of the Spirit, the spiritual birth. How are we born again?

First we must recognize who we are. Are we children of God, or are we children of satan? If we are not for God we are against him. If we are not God's children then we are the children of satan. There are no fence sitters. The only way to become a child of God is to believe that Jesus died for our sins.

Are you a sinner?

If you answered yes, then do you believe in your heart that Jesus died for your sins, and that God raised him from the dead?

If you answered yes, then do you want to be obedient to Jesus as Lord and Savior?

If you answered yes, then based on the verse of scripture in Romans 10 with your confession here if you were to die tonight, where would you spend eternity?

The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. Romans 10:811

You will be led by the Holy Spirit as you become honest with yourself during this time of seeking truth. You will be able to pray for God to forgive your sins as you repent turning to His way, and establish in your life a time of prayer and Bible reading as you walk in the truths of the Lord.

Michael

 

[Common Sense]

Solo,

thanks for the quick reply. i've heard what you said many times before and i would completely agree with you if i were to look at it from a christian's view. however, how can you physically or chemically or mathematically prove that God created the heavens and the earth? how can you prove that there's such an entity as "God"? i don't know if you read everything in the link i provided in the first post, but i did state that i went to christian schools all my life and grew up in a christian environment so i pretty much know the christian argument and everything you said. since no christians can really "prove" the existence of God or his work, they usually end up telling me it all depends on how much faith i have. and i clearly indicated in my blog why i think just having "faith" is not a good way to believe in a religion.

as far as me being a sinner, my answer would also vary depending on how i look at it. if i believe there's no God, the bible wouldn't be real, and i wouldn't consider myself as a sinner. if i believe there is God, i would consider myself as a sinner.

i'm looking for more detailed, specific answers for my questions. i want the answers that prove why christianity is real and why i should believe in it. not why i'm a sinner and how humans became sinners. i would really appreciate if you could provide answers/proofs that non-christians can also agree upon.

 

[Judy]

I believe gotquestions.org gave a good answer to your question I posted it below.
But let me ask you something, prove to me that God doesn't exists. :wink:

Question: "Is God real? How can I know for sure that God is real?"

Answer: We know that God is real because He has revealed Himself to us in three ways: in creation, in His Word, and in His Son, Jesus Christ.

The most basic proof of God’s existence is simply what He has made. “For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that [unbelievers] are without excuse†(Romans 1:20). “The heavens declare the glory of God / And the firmament sheweth His handiwork†(Psalm 19:1).

If I found a wristwatch in the middle of a field, I would not assume that it just “appeared†out of nowhere or that it had always existed. Based on the watch’s design, I would assume it had a designer. But I see far greater design and precision in the world around us. Our measurement of time is not based on wristwatches, but on God’s handiworkâ€â€the regular rotation of the earth (and the radioactive properties of the cesium-133 atom). The universe displays great design, and this argues for a Great Designer.

If I found an encoded message, I would seek out a cryptographer to help break the code. My assumption would be that there is an intelligent sender of the message, someone who created the code. How complex is the DNA “code†that we carry in every cell of our bodies? Does not the complexity and purpose of DNA argue for an Intelligent Writer of the code?

Not only has God made an intricate and finely tuned physical world, He has also instilled a sense of eternity in the heart of every person (Ecclesiastes 3:11). Mankind has an innate perception that there is more to life than meets the eye, that there is an existence higher than this earthly routine. Our sense of eternity manifests itself in at least two ways: law-making and worship.

Every civilization throughout history has valued certain moral laws, which are surprisingly similar from culture to culture. For example, the ideal of love is universally esteemed, while the act of lying is universally condemned. This common moralityâ€â€this global understanding of right and wrongâ€â€points to a Supreme Moral Being who gave us such scruples.

In the same way, people all over the world, regardless of culture, have always cultivated a system of worship. The object of worship may vary, but the sense of a “higher power†is an undeniable part of being human. Our propensity to worship accords with the fact that God created us “in His own image†(Genesis 1:27).

God has also revealed Himself to us through His Word, the Bible. Throughout scripture, the existence of God is treated as a self-evident fact (Genesis 1:1; Exodus 3:14). When Benjamin Franklin wrote his Autobiography, he did not waste time trying to prove his own existence. Likewise, God does not spend much time proving His existence in His book. The life-changing nature of the Bible, its integrity, and the miracles which accompanied its writing should be enough to warrant a closer look.

The third way in which God revealed Himself is through His Son, Jesus Christ (John 14:6-11). “In the beginning was the Word: the Word was with God, and the Word was God. . . . And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us†(John 1:1, 14). In Jesus Christ “dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily†(Colossians 2:9).

In Jesus’ amazing life, He kept the entire Old Testament law perfectly and fulfilled the prophecies concerning the Messiah (Matthew 5:17). He performed countless acts of compassion and public miracles to authenticate His message and bear witness to His deity (John 21:24-25). Then, three days after His crucifixion, He rose from the dead, a fact affirmed by hundreds of eyewitnesses (1 Corinthians 15:6). The historical record abounds with “proof†of who Jesus is. As the Apostle Paul said, “This thing was not done in a corner†(Acts 26:26).

We realize that there will always be skeptics who have their own ideas concerning God and will read the evidence accordingly. And there will be some whom no amount of proof will convince (Psalm 14:1). It all comes down to faith (Hebrews 11:6).

Recommended Resource: I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist by Norm Geisler and Frank Turek.

http://www.gotquestions.org/is-God-real.html

 

[cj]

i'm looking for more detailed, specific answers for my questions. i want the answers that prove why christianity is real and why i should believe in it. not why i'm a sinner and how humans became sinners. i would really appreciate if you could provide answers/proofs that non-christians can also agree upon.

CommonSense, perhaps if you just ask one question it might be a better starting point than asking for an entire account of man's spiritual significance/reality and journey.



That aside, the very fact that Solo attempted to provide you with an answer is all the "proof" that is needed.

No, the proof was not in His answer, the proof is in the reason/motive for his answer.

He believes in God, and so he moves according to his belief.

The problem is not Solo and his answer not "proving" anything in your estimation, the problem is in your blindness to the truth of a matter.



Take the following for instance......

In science there really is no such thing as white. Fact is, white is a combination of all colors.

Here's a dictionary definition of white....... "White is a color (more accurately it contains all the colors of the visible spectrum and is sometimes described as an achromatic colorâ€â€black is the absence of color) that has high brightness but zero hue."


So there it is, white contains all colors. But in all honesty, when most of us look at white we just see it as another color; without the slightest thought that it contains any other color.


So how wrong is out "common sense" take on the color white?

And if on something as simple as a color, how wrong might we be on something as complex as the matter of a God who created and upholds all things?


Fact is,.... one of the many starting points for a man's understand of God is the admitting by this man that he really knows nothing.

And, if you really consider it, this in and of itself is a basic "common sense" principle. Think about it.

If a man believes he knows a particular thing about a specific matter, he is more likely to be hindered in making a "common sense" decision, or even have a "common sense" view of it. What will more often happen is that because of his pre-established viewpoint, he will either have a proper view or an improper view of the said matter.


CS, understand this, on the one hand God is very complex, but on the other hand God is very simple.

Maybe the color white is a good analogy of this; just as white seems simple to see, white is in fact/reality a very complex matter.


Here's a reality/proof for you,....... it is impossible for you to live out your life on this earth (to a degree) without coming in contact with "Christian" thought expressed in people.

This fact alone is "proof" of God.

Touch these people and you'll find out they have form just like you. Speak to them and they will speak to you. In fact, in every way you "prove" that you are real they also can 'prove that they are real.

See CS, reality is not ink on paper, reality is life. And just as you are convinced that the thoughts you have are real, so to is the believer in God convinced that his or her thoughts are real,

So why are your's anymore real than theirs?

Your's aren't.

The truth is, thoughts are only as real as the the person who thinks these thoughts.


Now, this leaves us with a bit of a conundrum, as it does not really settle anything at this moment, right?

See, this is where faith........ in God....... and in what He has declared....... comes into play.


CS,..... one day a believer may die and in this death it becomes evident that all that this believer thought is not true.

But, he may die and find out that all that he believed.... is true.

What then?



Which is really the question,.... in which we are confronted by a matter that the bible refers to as "our hope."


Scripture tells us that "for the joy before Him, He (Jesus) endure the cross."

In this case, if it were a another man that was being spoken of, one could use the word "hope" in place of the word joy. But in truth, our hope should and will be our joy.


This is a fact of life on this earth today CS, an unbeliever has no hope in the sense that a Christian believer does. The unbeliever can't as the unbeliever rejects the matter of Christian hope.

Given this situation, it now becomes a matter of which will be found to be, not right or wrong, but eternal or not eternal, reality or not reality,.... proven true or not proven true?

And what will be found will either prove God or disprove Him.


This is what "believing in God" declares,..... that at this point God has chosen to reveal Himself in a matter called "hope", and not in a way of "proof".

Now you are within your "right" to reject this thought.

But just as you have your "right" to reject something as wrong, if there is a God, then He most certainly has His "right" to reject something as wrong also.


The eternal question simply comes down to this,..... when all is said and down, which will it be?

I choose to believe in what the bible declares.

Right now, that is the most revealing "proof" in all creation that there is a God. But one has to choose to see it as such. Just as one has to choose to see white as the sum total of all colors.


I hope you gain something from what I've said.


In love,
cj


PS - here's a little more..... according to scripture, when all is said and done your choice will prove one of two things, God's great mercy/love, or God's righteous judgement.

 

[Edward Vil]

Well, I am no Christian, but I hated the font.

 

[Vic C.]

From the blog...

no christians ever question things that they are told. they just believe EVERYTHING churches teach.

This is dangerous. It's not true that ALL never question, but a good majority DO accept the "status quo" they are taught. This goes against scripture.

1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

which can lead to this...

2 Tim 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2 Tim 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

 

[Orthodoxy]

Orthodoxy

 

[Orthodoxy]

I originally wrote this for people who read my blog but decided to post it here to hear what other christians think. I've already posted this on a non-christian website and received many feedbacks. I'd like to hear from christians as well.

CLICK HERE FOR MY THOUGHTS ON CHRISTIANITY

Now visit the anicent and authentic Church to see what true Christianity is all about in this modern day. If you like us then stay. If not then freely become agnostic and be honest, say "i dont know", but at least give the authentic and original Church a chance to win your heart that originally chose Jesus Christ in the first place. Dispare not and dive deeper. I was where you are at the end of my protestant christian walk.

You are invited to visit the Holy Orthodox Church near you. Please come. Taste and see that the Lord is good!

http://www.oca.org/DIRlists.parish.asp?SID=9

In Christ,

Kyril

 

[Henry]

Sad, so sad.

Your problem is that you are looking for an answer in men, and passing wrong judgments as you do.

Jesus is not a system he is a person.

 

[Ruben]

Common Sense;

I can offer nothing except my own experiences as I have journeyed though the ‘wilderness’ of searching for truth.

In your post I find a kindred spirit, someone that wants ‘truth’, not just reaffirmation for what those before accepted as truth. For all the questions they were unable to figure out, they passed them on to the next generation as something ‘we are not suppose to know’.

I never could get all the pieces to fit, not as long I strictly adhere to the ’truths’ that I learned as a child. I couldn’t understand how it is that humanity is found ‘guilty’ and deserving of death even as a new born coming into the world. No child ever born deserves death.

Instead of again consuming all my energies attempting to make every part of the Scriptures fit every other part, I chose to also employ the tools our Creator endowed us with. It is through reason and logic that I have come to understand the ’love’ and ‘value‘ God holds for all of His creation.

Many times I critically examined the existence of God the Creator. It has been through the use of logic and reason that I became convinced that the universe is the result of ’intelligent design’. My methods may not have been perfect but I logically deduced that ‘creation’ is the only viable explanation.

Having settled the question of ‘how we got here’, I then needed to know something about Those that created us. Through study and reason I logically deduced that Whom ever created us invested a great deal of thought into what They were doing. Reason and logic taught me that Those who created this world are lovers of beauty and diversity.

If it requires mankind to advance in intelligence in order to begin to understand his world, then Those that created it must be a googleplex of light years beyond our greatest intelligence.

Man was created with the abilities to appreciate his world to the fullest. Sight is functional for navigating in our world. Those that created us gave us limitless beauty and the abilities to appreciate it.

They designed us in a way that we, not only can enjoy the natural sounds in our world, but gave us the intelligence and desire to create and express music out of our own hearts.

We have been given an endless variety of foods and tastes and the ability to savor them all.

Because we are physical we need to be physical. The sensation of ‘feel’ makes us want to touch and touching is very much a part of our closest human encounters.

Our sense of smell not only enhances the loveliness of a flower with its sweet fragrance, but enables us to enjoy the taste of food before tasting it.

Logic and reason has taught me that ‘love’ is fundamentally a part of creation. As the Creators ’spoke’ our world into existence ‘love’ was the motivation, as evidenced in the newness of all life.

Logic, reason, and love have carried me to the point of accepting that :
1. We are the result of ’intelligent design’.
2. Those that designed and created our world are Creators that greatly value Their creation out of an immeasurable ’love’.

Where to go from here? Logic and reason told me to look for evidence in our human history that reflects a Creator or Creators that express Love for Their creation. The Bible teaches this, particularly the New Testament, a record of earthly events expressing the depths of our Creators’ Love through Jesus' life and death. What greater expression could be made than to declare the worth of creation, of humanity, as equal to Their own? Our Creator passively allowed us to take His life as an expression of His love.

But there are many stories in the Bible, especially the Old Testament, that depict the Creator as being brutally angry at humanity. So angry in fact that He often wanted to kill those that had angered Him and sometimes did.

I can not agree with everything that is contained in the Bible. You mention ‘burning in hell for ever’ as God’s punishment for man’s inabilities or refusal to comply. If we humans can recognize the unfairness in subjecting our enemies to such a tortuous hell then how can we believe that our Creator/Parent would be so vengeful as to cause endless pain to the very creatures He professes to love?

I’ve heard some of the arguments claiming that God has the right to do as He pleases and answers to no one. Some years ago a friend ask me if I believed that God could do EVERYTHING to which I replied ’of course’. My friend then ask, “If God can do everything can He create a rock too heavy for Him to lift?†I passed it off as a childish play on words and continued on for many years believing that ‘God is God’ and He can do anything He wants, including transgressing His own laws.

Theoretically we all possess the abilities to be either an asset to society or a depraved threat. Realistically if we don’t have the desire to be either we are just what we are, not all good and not all bad.

I would suppose that the Creators, having the abilities to create, would also possess the abilities to manipulate and change any part of creation. Does God’s heart desire for the errant part of His creation to suffer endless torment? Come on, endless torture is sadistic and just plain sick. I don’t see how this is an accurate portrayal of a Creator that began creation out of love. I reject this notion as a ‘deception’ designed to instill fear of God, not respect but shear terror. Being scared as hell is not going to result in a real and lasting change in anyone. It would only be a matter of time before someone would grow to resent and then hate. Then what, does it all just keep happen over and over again?

I don’t have any definitive answers except I’m not going to be afraid of God anymore because ‘fear’ is a tool of manipulation, love is an invitation.

Keep searching and may God bless you with peace of mind and heart.

 

[Common Sense]

i'd like to thank those who gave me some good answers especially ruben..

Judy - you asked me to prove that God doesn't exist. and you know what my answer is. but just because i cannot prove God's non-existence, i'm not going to believe that God exists. according to the answer you quoted from a website, God has revealed himself to us in three ways: in creation, in His Word, and in His son. as for creation, what makes you think creation is the way this world was created? how about evolution and big bang theory? as for His Word, how can you tell bible is real? do you know the history of the bible and how it was made? then do you also know that many parts of bible were inserted and also taken out? the answer is based on scriptures as you can see many bible verses were quoted. what if i don't believe bible is God word? i mean, there could be a book written by men that says everything in this world was created by the sun and backs up their argument according to the book they wrote. if their book is not true, their belief is also not true right? could you provide any proofs that are outside the bible? i believe any other religion can prove that their religion is real through their torah, koran, etc.

cj - i've said it before but i will say it once again. i was raised as a christian and i do agree with solo if i believe everything in christianity. but like you said, he believes in God and all his answers are based on what the scriptures say. but for people who don't believe that bible is real, it's very hard to acknowledge God's existence through his argument.

"Here's a reality/proof for you,....... it is impossible for you to live out your life on this earth (to a degree) without coming in contact with "Christian" thought expressed in people.

This fact alone is "proof" of God. "

how do you know that it is impossible? in America, maybe it is. how about communist countries like north korea and china where they forbid practicing any kind of religions?

"Touch these people and you'll find out they have form just like you. Speak to them and they will speak to you. In fact, in every way you "prove" that you are real they also can 'prove that they are real."

believe or not, i actually talk to variety of religious people and ask questions. and not everything that they say agree with each other even if they believe in the same religion. they also add their personal opinions to their argument which makes me believe that everything cannot be proven by a religion.

"This is a fact of life on this earth today CS, an unbeliever has no hope in the sense that a Christian believer does. The unbeliever can't as the unbeliever rejects the matter of Christian hope. "

why do i must have hope? i assume that the christian hope you are talking about is regarding the after life? what if i just want to die and stay as is?

orthodoxy - thanks for the link. i will make sure i check out the link.

Henry - you are the reason why non-believers hate christians. when a curious person seeking truth posts on a christian website, all you can say is how sad the questions are and what the problem is? i hate people like you as much as those christians who judge others and tell them they will go to hell. according to christianity, it is God who judges people, not christians. even if there's a gay person, you should tell them how much God loves everyone instead of telling them how much God hates them and that they will go to hell. you are pathetic.

Ruben - i'd like to thank you again for your reply. your reply was very helpful and was exactly what i was looking for.

 

[cj]

cj - i've said it before but i will say it once again. i was raised as a christian...

See CommonSense,hte problem is, no one can be "raised a Christian".

Perhaps you were raised in a Christian environment, but again, no one is raised a Christian.

Being a Christian means being a new creation in Christ. Therefore you either are a Christian or you are not a Christian; and this has nothing to do with whether or not someone is raised in a Christian environment.

From this error on your part it is obvious that you will venture out into nowhere land,a nd eventually come up with your own explanations and definitions.

..... and i do agree with solo if i believe everything in christianity.

Your agreement means nothing, it has no value.

God isn't after your agreement, he is after your willing submission.

Ghandi consider what he understood to be Christian thinking in its perfection to be of the highest level of human spiritual attainment. Yet Ghandi never gave himself to it.

....... but like you said, he believes in God and all his answers are based on what the scriptures say.

Absolutely, he's submitted and rsponds as one who is.

..... but for people who don't believe that bible is real, it's very hard to acknowledge God's existence through his argument.

You're right, it is. But not because his argument is poor,.... but because you are poor.

Fact is Common Sense, you do not have the capacity to see God much less acknowledge Him.

Consider the foolishness of what you are suggesting,.... a simple men is going to convince another simple man that God, creator of the heavens and the earth exists?

Its like me turning to and ant and asking this ant to reveal laws of physics.

The ant isn't what you look to, physics is what you look to.

Likewise, man is not what you look to to reveal God, it is God that you look to to reveal Himself.

Just ask,.... "God, if you exist please reveal yourself to me."

Be carefully though, for scriptures say that when the feet of God come near so do the storms His feet kick up.

.... how do you know that it is impossible? in America, maybe it is. how about communist countries like north korea and china where they forbid practicing any kind of religions?

First off,... I said "to a degree"; secondly, I said "you".

But try and understand the point I was making.

.... believe or not, i actually talk to variety of religious people and ask questions. and not everything that they say agree with each other even if they believe in the same religion. they also add their personal opinions to their argument which makes me believe that everything cannot be proven by a religion.

Nothing can be proven by religion,... except that the one found in religion is disobedient to the will of God for man.

.... why do i must have hope? i assume that the christian hope you are talking about is regarding the after life? what if i just want to die and stay as is?

Fine, I never said you must have hope.

Go ahead, live your life any way you want.

But we're not discussing how you want to live your life, this board is about proving God.

In love,
cj

 

[Common Sense]

"See CommonSense,hte problem is, no one can be "raised a Christian".

Perhaps you were raised in a Christian environment, but again, no one is raised a Christian."

well, to be honest, i don't see much difference between being raised in a christian environment and being raised as a christian. the reason why i said i was raised as a christian was because i didn't choose to be a christian but oneday i looked at myself and i was a christian. i was always forced to go to church and was forced to be a christian by my parents. and i did accept Jesus as my savior but it was because i believed everything i was told and never had a chance to look outside the box. i'm not sure what category of religions i fall into. i just wanna know the truth and i'm trying my best to seek the truth. if you don't know anything about how i was raised, don't even say anything about it.

"Your agreement means nothing, it has no value.

God isn't after your agreement, he is after your willing submission. "

i never said my agreement is gonna make any difference. i was just saying that i would completely agree with what he said if i were to look at it from a christian perspective. that does not mean i believe other people or God care about my agreement.

"You're right, it is. But not because his argument is poor,.... but because you are poor.

Fact is Common Sense, you do not have the capacity to see God much less acknowledge Him.

Consider the foolishness of what you are suggesting,.... a simple men is going to convince another simple man that God, creator of the heavens and the earth exists? "

lol now you are telling me i can't see God because i "don't have the capacity"? since when did you start judging people telling who has the capacity to see God and who doesn't? look, i've been a christian for 20 years of my life. i still pray to God asking him to show me the light so i can follow it. i'm not an atheist trying to argue with christians and make fun of them. i'm trying to strengthen my faith by learning other religions and experiencing different stuff. however, you are right about the last thing you said. i shouldn't be asking you guys about God but i should try to experience God directly. which i've been trying hard recently but hasn't happened. if i don't experience him, i guess he's not there. don't get me wrong. i will pray hard and will try my best.

"First off,... I said "to a degree"; secondly, I said "you". "

apparently, you don't understand the point i was making. what makes you think we are better than those people in communist countries? we deserve to hear about christianity and be saved but those people in communist countries don't? you said everyone should encounter christian gospel at least once in their life time. and i asked what about those people in the communist countries? is there any misunderstanding here? it seems pretty clear to me.

"Fine, I never said you must have hope.

Go ahead, live your life any way you want.

But we're not discussing how you want to live your life, this board is about proving God. "

lol you make it seem like i'm the abnormal person not having the "hope." i was just saying what if i'm not really interested in the after life? i mean, think about it. if you are satisfied with the life that's given to you right now, why would u want another life later on? and what if i don't like the way i live my life right now and didn't ever want to be born again and live another life?

the problem with you is that you don't think outside the box. you've been fully brainwashed with christianity like many people i see. no matter what i say, you will never understand my argument and will get mad at me for not "just believing." all i'm trying to do is to make this religion easier to comprehend and find the truth out of it so i can believe it with no doubt and spread the gospel.

i'd like to thank you for your replies and time you spent in this thread.

 

[itoldyounoalready]

Dear Common Sense, wow, you sound like a mirror image of me, it's amazing. I had always grown up in the church, my father is a deacon in the church, but he definitely acts different on Sunday than he does on Monday through Friday. I felt that life would be so much easier if I were an atheist and didn't have any rules to weigh me down all the time.I even went to constant FCA meetings and see you at the pole.I know this is a crucial time in you're life, it still is for me too, I 'm still searching for all the answers,and for a deeper faith.I know now what I didn't know before, faith takes time to develop and recover, and life without God is empty, and it hurts trust me.Possibly, in your eyes my response may seem ignorant but trust me try reading C.S. Lewis and the Case for Christ from there you can either make a decision to reject or accept. Just trust me I know what it feels like to go to a Christian meeting and just leave utterly hating God or more bewildered than you were before.

 

[Common Sense]

Dear Common Sense, wow, you sound like a mirror image of me, it's amazing. I had always grown up in the church, my father is a deacon in the church, but he definitely acts different on Sunday than he does on Monday through Friday. I felt that life would be so much easier if I were an atheist and didn't have any rules to weigh me down all the time.I even went to constant FCA meetings and see you at the pole.I know this is a crucial time in you're life, it still is for me too, I 'm still searching for all the answers,and for a deeper faith.I know now what I didn't know before, faith takes time to develop and recover, and life without God is empty, and it hurts trust me.Possibly, in your eyes my response may seem ignorant but trust me try reading C.S. Lewis and the Case for Christ from there you can either make a decision to reject or accept. Just trust me I know what it feels like to go to a Christian meeting and just leave utterly hating God or more bewildered than you were before.

thanks for your reply. this is the kind of reply i was looking for. i will definitely try what you said.

 

[itoldyounoalready]

I'm glad I could help someone, if you have any more questions you can pm me.

 

[cj]

well, to be honest, i don't see much difference between being raised in a christian environment and being raised as a christian.

This is because you don't really know what a Christian is.

You, like many who label themselves "christian", are claiming this label by means of association.

Sorry, but this is not the reality of being a Christian. And until you come to see this you have ne way to gain any real understanding of this matter as you are attempting to gain it from a false/erroneous foundation.

.... the reason why i said i was raised as a christian was because i didn't choose to be a christian but oneday i looked at myself and i was a christian.

See, you have nothing to do with declaring your "Christianship"; again, you expose yourself as not having a clue as to what being a Christian is.

CS, it not a hat you put on your head for a day.

i was always forced to go to church and was forced to be a christian by my parents.

That's not being a Christian that's being religious in a religious environment.

A Christian is not in this way religious.

.... and i did accept Jesus as my savior but it was because i believed everything i was told and never had a chance to look outside the box.

Then it would seem that you did not accept Christ as your Savior, but instead accepted what you reasoned in your mind was "good" to do given the circumstances of your life to that point.

.... i'm not sure what category of religions i fall into.

One of two that millions fall into,.... unsaved but trying to have thoughts that seem "right", or saved but using human reasoning to figure out what it means in everyday life.

If its the second then welcome to the club, as all believers are in the same boat, just at different levels or in different cabins.

... i just wanna know the truth and i'm trying my best to seek the truth.

The Truth was standing right infront of Pontius Pilate and yet Pilate asked the Truth, "What is truth?"

You are doing the same thing as Pilate.

.... if you don't know anything about how i was raised, don't even say anything about it.

Sorry, but you brought up this aspect of your upbringing and so I commented on it.

What you said is common to millions, including myself, so don't go off offended.

The fact is, the wa you were raised has everything to do with where you find yourself now. Its not the only influence, but its part of the whole deal.

i never said my agreement is gonna make any difference.

Then why say it?

i was just saying that i would completely agree with what he said if i were to look at it from a christian perspective. that does not mean i believe other people or God care about my agreement.

Again, then why say it?

Vanity,... that's why.

Truth is, I don't believe you know what you agree with.

lol now you are telling me i can't see God because i "don't have the capacity"?

Absolutely.

Its a life-principle CS,...... that's why folks go to college, or parents spend time with their kids,..... so that they might develop a capacity.

You can laugh all you want but you're laughing at yourself.

Why is it that men live according to a rule/principle in practical living yet throw this rule/principle out the window when it comes to God?

Even worse,...... listen to you own words,.... "i just wanna know the truth and i'm trying my best to seek the truth."

Truth is all around us, yet you seem to think you need to seek it, why? Where's you capacity to see it?

.... since when did you start judging people telling who has the capacity to see God and who doesn't?

I didn't, your words are your judge, your words condemn you.

... look, i've been a christian for 20 years of my life.

Or maybe you've been what you thought was a "Christian" for 20 years of your life.

Just moments ago I read a letter from a young woman who's parents are missionaries. She was raised with them, and even gave herself to the missions field when she became an adult. Yet, in this letter she admitted that she is only now beginning to know what being a Christian is in reality.

Twenty years is no guarantee of anything, for time is not the measure used by God, content is.

... i still pray to God asking him to show me the light so i can follow it.

And He is, right now,..... but you've still got you're colored glases on, you're still trying to apply you're own concepts to His light.

Coming to God like a child means coming to Him defenseless.

Can you do that, can you just honestly say "I don't know anything", and start from the beginning?

.... i'm not an atheist trying to argue with christians and make fun of them. i'm trying to strengthen my faith by learning other religions and experiencing different stuff.

That's the way to weaken your faith, not strengthen it.

Would a married man strengthen his marriage by going and having a relationship with another woman?

..... however, you are right about the last thing you said. i shouldn't be asking you guys about God but i should try to experience God directly.

Praise the Lord, He has shown you this,....... and there's your proof.

But even more is required,..... but lets go to what you said below first,....

.... which i've been trying hard recently but hasn't happened. if i don't experience him, i guess he's not there. don't get me wrong. i will pray hard and will try my best.

Sometimes God hides Himself from a person, or even a nation (as He did with Israel on two occasions). This is according to His wisdom regarding what is needed for Him to bring a person into His being.

Tell me, if the air was hidden from you would you just say "That's okay, I guess it wasn't really necessary to begin with" and leave it at that?

Course not. You'd die.

The same is true with God. Sometimes He takes Himself out of the picture for a time so that one day a man will become so desperate that he hopes beyond hope that God does exist and will save him.

God is very aware of your concepts and opinions, so He is using them against you, to defeat you. God will leave you alone for however long it takes for your thoughts to overcome you and thoroughly drown you. In fact, He might just add some other stuff in your daily life just to speed up the process of defeat and death.

You think you're praying hard now,...... wait until it gets to the point where all you can do is run out into a field and scream at the sky above you.

Sometimes our "prayers" are not really anything to God, but a primal cry from deep within our being,.... that get's his attention.

"First off,... I said "to a degree"; secondly, I said "you". "

.... apparently, you don't understand the point i was making. what makes you think we are better than those people in communist countries?

Never said I did; fact is, people in situations of persecution tend to have stronger relationships with God as a result of their more intense sufferings.

But its you that's missing the point, not me.

.... we deserve to hear about christianity and be saved but those people in communist countries don't?

You're off on your own here, this has nothing to do with what I said.

All people "deserve" to hear the gospel preached.

.... you said everyone should encounter christian gospel at least once in their life time. and i asked what about those people in the communist countries? is there any misunderstanding here? it seems pretty clear to me.

Again, all people need to hear the gospel preached.

Now because you equate this gospel as being what you have heard and seen does not mean that this is what is needed.

God preached the gospel to Eve in Genesis 3, do you know where?

God is more than capable of bringing men to believing in Him and more than capable of crossing all borders with His written word and the preaching of it.

"Fine, I never said you must have hope.

Go ahead, live your life any way you want.

But we're not discussing how you want to live your life, this board is about proving God. "

lol you make it seem like i'm the abnormal person not having the "hope." i was just saying what if i'm not really interested in the after life? i mean, think about it. if you are satisfied with the life that's given to you right now, why would u want another life later on? and what if i don't like the way i live my life right now and didn't ever want to be born again and live another life?

I can see that you are suffering from "What if" syndrome. This is the evidence of an overactive fallen mind.

CS, I never said you were abnormal, I did say that you were poor.

To have the hope of eternal life makes me richer than a man who places no value in the hope of eternal life. And this is why someone who does not hope is poor.

..... the problem with you is that you don't think outside the box.

Tell me, oh common sense out-of-the-box thinker,...... about the air,..... is it for you or are you for it?

This is one thought that I was considering early yesterday morning.


CS,...... I doubt there are many more prolific "out-of-the-box" thinkers than myself. And believe me, this is not a boast but a condemnation.

.... you've been fully brainwashed with christianity like many people i see.

Actually, I was on my way there when God saved me from Christianity.

Now I have nothing to do with Christianity, except to speak against it.

.... no matter what i say, you will never understand my argument and will get mad at me for not "just believing."

No, I don't think so. You are where I once was; its all a procees CS, if I were to get "mad" at you in reality I would be getting "mad" at God for having you where you are.

I absolutely understand your point of view, but unlike you, I know why not to agree with it, and even more, how to effectively speak against it.

.... all i'm trying to do is to make this religion easier to comprehend and find the truth out of it so i can believe it with no doubt and spread the gospel.

Being a Christian has nothing to do with religion. And perhaps this is why you are having a hard time.

Being a Christian is simply being a person, living and being as any other person. Only instead of having fallenness as your source you have God as your source.

Being a Christian is not about buildings and gatherings, forms and doctrines, traditions and self-effort. Being a Christian is about life, divine life, God's life,.... being in a human vessel and being expressed out of this human vessel.

The entire bible is a book of this life. It beginnings with man being placed in front of the tree of life, and his rejecting it, and ends with God restoring man to the tree of life and man receiving it.

And all tha is found inbetween this beginning and the end is simply the process by which God accomplishes this.

The tree of life is just God as "food" for man's living and being. And according to the principle of eating, what man eats he becomes.

Likewise, as man eats the tree of life, God, man becomes God.

And this has been God's desire from the beginning, from eternity past, and is why God became a man.

God became man so that man could become God, in His life and in His nature; but the fruit of the tree is not the tree itself, therefore, man will never become God in His fullness which includes His headship over all things. But man can certainly possess His life and His nature.


And this is the only view from which we can read and fully understand what is written in the bible. Any other view will only allow a smaller measure of the truth the bible contains to be understood.

God took Abraham to Mount Moriah (where he was to sacrifice Isaac). And it was on this mount that God declared to Abraham that He (God) could now trust Abraham.

In Hebrew, Moriah means "the view of Jahoveh",... and what is to be understood from this story is that when Abraham came to possess the view of Jahoveh, God could then be one with Abraham.

Mount Moriah would later come to be called by a different name,.... Mount Zion, the dwelling place of God with man.

And scripture tells us that this Zion, which is really symbolic of man having God's view of all things (Moriah), is what God has desired since eternity past.



CS,.... if you are honestly seeking the truth, then you need to allow God to bring you, like Abraham, to Mount Moriah, the place of His view.


And coming to this place requires the experience that Abraham had with Isaac, which is for us our experience of the cross in our lives.

Gaining God's view requires our passing through the experience of the cross.

And what you are going through is a small part of this experience.


This is a wonderful thing,.... that seems not so wonderful when its being experienced.

Yet, even in this is God's wisdom, for because of our "not so wonderful" feelings we end up turning to others, like you have done here on this board, and then God gets what another aspect of what He's really after,.... the function corporate body of Christ.

i'd like to thank you for your replies and time you spent in this thread.

I'm saved by your suffering and the questions that come out of it.

You help God build me up in faith.

Amen.


In love,
cj