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"In Him"?

atpollard

Member
Ephesians 1:3-6 [NKJV]
3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.​

So we are ALL familiar with this paragraph and the rest of the wonderful blessings and promises in Ephesians chapter 1 and Chapter 2. Yet how quickly we pass over the short qualifier underlined above. This isn't the only promise linked to the phrase "in Him".

So what does this REALLY mean?
I get "He chose us before the foundation of the world" ... that is a simple English sentence, but what does "in Him" add or subtract? How does it change the meaning of that simple statement?

"In Him" ...
  • Is it SOMETHING?
  • Is it NOTHING?
  • Is it IMPORTANT?
  • Is it TRIVIAL?
  • Does it SUPPORT the basic meaning?
  • Does it CHANGE the basic meaning?
What are your thoughts ...
 
I find the commentary of A. R. Fausset approaches scripture a bit different than most with a focus on the actual words rather than the "big picture" that is often useful, interesting and informative. Here is his commentary on Ephesians 1:3-6

3. The doxologies in almost all the Epistles imply the real sense of grace experienced by the writers and their readers ( 1Pe 1:3 ). Eph 1:3-14 sets forth summarily the Gospel of the grace of God: the FATHER'S work of love, Eph 1:3 (choosing us to holiness, Eph 1:4; to sonship, Eph 1:5; to acceptance, Eph 1:6 ): the SON'S, Eph 1:7 (redemption, Eph 1:7; knowledge of the mystery of His will, Eph 1:9; an inheritance, Eph 1:11 ); the HOLY SPIRIT'S, Eph 1:13 (sealing, Eph 1:13; giving an earnest of the inheritance, Eph 1:14 ).​
the God and Father of. . . Christ--and so the God and Father of us who are in Him ( Jhn 20:17 ). God is "the God" of the man Jesus, and "the Father" of the Divine Word. The Greek is, "Blessed us," not "hath blessed us"; referring to the past original counsel of God. As in creation ( Gen 1:22 ) so in redemption ( Gen 12:3 Mat 5:3-11 25:34 ) God "blesses" His children; and that not in mere words, but in acts.​
us--all Christians.​
blessings--Greek, "blessing." "All," that is, "every possible blessing for time and eternity, which the Spirit has to bestow" (so "spiritual" means; not "spiritual," as the term is now used, as opposed to bodily).​
in heavenly places--a phrase five times found in this Epistle, and not elsewhere ( Eph 1:20 Eph 2:6 3:10 6:12 ); Greek, "in the heavenly places." Christ's ascension is the means of introducing us into the heavenly places, which by our sin were barred against us. Compare the change made by Christ ( Col 1:20 Eph 1:20 ). While Christ in the flesh was in the form of a servant, God's people could not realize fully their heavenly privileges as sons. Now "our citizenship (Greek) is in heaven" ( Phl 3:20 ), where our High Priest is ever "blessing" us. Our "treasures" are there ( Mat 6:20, 21 ); our aims and affections ( Col 3:1, 2 ); our hope ( Col 1:5 Tts 2:13 ); our inheritance ( 1Pe 1:4 ). The gift of the Spirit itself, the source of the "spiritual blessing," is by virtue of Jesus having ascended thither ( Eph 4:8 ).​
in Christ--the center and source of all blessing to us.​
4. hath chosen us--Greek, "chose us out for Himself" (namely, out of the world, Gal 1:4 ): referring to His original choice, spoken of as past.​
in him--The repetition of the idea, "in Christ" ( Eph 1:3 ), implies the paramount importance of the truth that it is in Him, and by virtue of union to Him, the Second Adam, the Restorer ordained for us from everlasting, the Head of redeemed humanity, believers have all their blessings ( Eph 3:11 ).​
before the foundation of the world--This assumes the eternity of the Son of God ( Jhn 17:5, 24 ), as of the election of believers in Him ( 2Ti 1:9 2Th 2:13 ).​
that we should be holy--positively ( Deu 14:2 ).​
without blame--negatively ( Eph 5:27 1Th 3:13 ).​
before him--It is to Him the believer looks, walking as in His presence, before whom he looks to be accepted in the judgment ( Col 1:22; compare Rev 7:15 ).​
in love--joined by BENGEL and others with Eph 1:5, "in love having predestinated us," &c. But English Version is better. The words qualify the whole clause, "that we should be holy. . . before Him." Love, lost to man by the fall, but restored by redemption, is the root and fruit and sum of all holiness ( Eph 5:2 1Th 3:12, 13 ).​
5. predestinated--more special in respect to the end and precise means, than "chosen" or elected. We are "chosen" out of the rest of the world; "predestinated" to all things that secure the inheritance for us ( Eph 1:11 Rom 8:29 ). "Foreordained."​
by Jesus--Greek, "through Jesus."​
to himself--the Father ( Col 1:20 ). ALFORD explains, "adoption. . . into Himself," that is, so that we should be partakers of the divine nature ( 2Pe 1:4 ). LACHMANN reads, "unto Him." The context favors the explanation of CALVIN: God has regard to Himself and the glory of His grace ( Eph 1:6, 12, 14 ) as His ultimate end. He had one only-begotten Son, and He was pleased for His own glory, to choose out of a lost world many to become His adopted sons. Translate, "unto Himself."​
the good pleasure of his will--So the Greek ( Mat 11:26 Luk 10:21 ). We cannot go beyond "the good pleasure of His will" in searching into the causes of our salvation, or of any of His works ( Eph 1:9 ). ( Job 33:13.) Why needest thou philosophize about an imaginary world of optimism? Thy concern is to take heed that thou be not bad. There was nothing in us which deserved His love ( Eph 1:1, 9, 11 ) [BENGEL].​
6. ( Eph 1:7, 17, 18 ). The end aimed at ( Psa 50:23 ), that is, that the glory of His grace may be praised by all His creatures, men and angels.​
wherein--Some of the oldest manuscripts read, "which." Then translate, "which He graciously bestowed on us." But English Version is supported by good manuscripts and the oldest versions.​
us accepted--a kindred Greek word to "grace": charitos, echaritosen: translate, "graciously accepted"; "made us subjects of His grace"; "embraced us in the arms of His grace" ( Rom 3:24 5:15 ).​
in the beloved--pre-eminently so called ( Mat 3:17 17:5 Jhn 3:35 Col 1:13 ). Greek, "Son of His love." It is only "IN HIS BELOVED" that He loves us ( Eph 1:3 1Jo 4:9, 10 ).​
 
To be "in Christ" means to walk after the Spirit,

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Rom.8:1
So how does that apply to Ephesians 1:4 ... to Paraphrase Nicodemus "We can't go back and walk in the spirit before we are born (the foundation of the world)"? 😉
 
So how does that apply to Ephesians 1:4
He means the type of people (believers, those who order their lives by faith in Christ.) He doesn't mean God chose individuals arbitrarily, or for no reason,

Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world, rich in faith, Jas.2:5

James doesn't mean all poor people are chosen by God.
... to Paraphrase Nicodemus "We can't go back and walk in the spirit before we are born (the foundation of the world)"? 😉
That's not a paraphrase of what Nicodemus said. Nicodemus was referring to being born from his mothers' womb. Jesus meant "born again" by hearing his words and following him, like people hear the wind. which comes and goes in directions he desires.
 
So how does that apply to Ephesians 1:4 ... to Paraphrase Nicodemus "We can't go back and walk in the spirit before we are born (the foundation of the world)"? 😉

Greetings, atpollard.

I'd answer that differently. To be "in Christ" actually meant to abide in the Spirit, which was not necessarily a given for believers during New Testament times, hence John's continual exhortation that they "abide in Him" (1 John 2:28, 1 John 4:13, etc). It refers to the means the Lord chose from the beginning by which believers were to enter into and walk in sanctification, and thereby inherit eternal life.

Not much time for long discussions right now, but if were looking for responses I thought I'd give you one.

Blessings,
- H
 
3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world,

I should also note that when He ordained Passover, He was foreshadowing how His people would abide "in Him," since those who partook of the Passover lamb were symbolizing that they were part of His spiritual body, just as those who partake of the Lord's supper do so today. The fact that Passover was ordained 1500 years before the crucifixion is the scriptural basis behind Paul's teaching that we were "chosen in Him" before the foundation of the world.
 
Greetings, atpollard.

I'd answer that differently. To be "in Christ" actually meant to abide in the Spirit, which was not necessarily a given for believers during New Testament times, hence John's continual exhortation that they "abide in Him" (1 John 2:28, 1 John 4:13, etc). It refers to the means the Lord chose from the beginning by which believers were to enter into and walk in sanctification, and thereby inherit eternal life.

Not much time for long discussions right now, but if were looking for responses I thought I'd give you one.

Blessings,
- H
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I should also note that when He ordained Passover, He was foreshadowing how His people would abide "in Him," since those who partook of the Passover lamb were symbolizing that they were part of His spiritual body, just as those who partake of the Lord's supper do so today. The fact that Passover was ordained 1500 years before the crucifixion is the scriptural basis behind Paul's teaching that we were "chosen in Him" before the foundation of the world.
:thumb
In a sense, aren't you discarding the phrase "before the foundation of the world" in the same way that most commentaries (and preaching) simply disregard the "in Him" as if it were an insignificant "given"?

Ephesians 1:3-6 seems to place emphasis on BOTH "in Him" and "before the foundation of the world" ... a mashing together of ideas that confuses me a little.

So I ask and I listen and I return to the Scripture to test what I hear.
 
In a sense, aren't you discarding the phrase "before the foundation of the world" in the same way that most commentaries (and preaching) simply disregard the "in Him" as if it were an insignificant "given"?

No. Paul was simply saying that it was in God's mind at the foundation of the world, having predestined that it be the means by which salvation would be offered to man.

Btw, about Fausset's exegesis, generally he's solid, but occasionally makes some rather peculiar statements.
The Greek is, "Blessed us," not "hath blessed us"; referring to the past original counsel of God. As in creation ( Gen 1:22 ) so in redemption ( Gen 12:3 Mat 5:3-11 25:34 ) God "blesses" His children; and that not in mere words, but in acts.

Technically, ὁ εὐλογήσας ἡμᾶς is "the One having blessed us." Not sure what distinction he was making here, but "the One who has blessed us" is actually slightly more accurate than "the One who blessed us."
4. hath chosen us--Greek, "chose us out for Himself" (namely, out of the world, Gal 1:4 ): referring to His original choice, spoken of as past.

This is also a strange sentence. Unless he is pointing backwards with the word "Greek" to the words, "hath chosen us," he is inaccurate here. "Chose us out for Himself" is not actually in the text. It is an extrapolation.
 
Ephesians 1:3-6 [NKJV]
3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.​

So we are ALL familiar with this paragraph and the rest of the wonderful blessings and promises in Ephesians chapter 1 and Chapter 2. Yet how quickly we pass over the short qualifier underlined above. This isn't the only promise linked to the phrase "in Him".

So what does this REALLY mean?
I get "He chose us before the foundation of the world" ... that is a simple English sentence, but what does "in Him" add or subtract? How does it change the meaning of that simple statement?

"In Him" ...
  • Is it SOMETHING?
  • Is it NOTHING?
  • Is it IMPORTANT?
  • Is it TRIVIAL?
  • Does it SUPPORT the basic meaning?
  • Does it CHANGE the basic meaning?
What are your thoughts ...
Christ is the Chosen One. He is God's plan for humanity chosen before the foundation of the world. We are chosen "in Him" by virtue of becoming a member of His body when we believe in God and receive the Holy Spirit that binds us together. Similar to how the Levites were in the loins of Abraham before the Levites were.
 
Christ is the Chosen One. He is God's plan for humanity chosen before the foundation of the world. We are chosen "in Him" by virtue of becoming a member of His body when we believe in God and receive the Holy Spirit that binds us together. Similar to how the Levites were in the loins of Abraham before the Levites were.
I get that sense from that verse, too. It just isn't very "Particular Baptist" to say so. 😉
[They might tear up my TULIP card, shave my beard and refuse to let me drink with the other Reformed.] :cool

My opinion isn't "set in stone", but just a leaning. I think JESUS is the "from the foundation of the world" part of THAT PARTICULAR verse. I think there are other verses that sound more like God FOREKNEW (relational) US before we were born and made decisions long before we "believed". This just isn't that.

I don't mind taking my lumps, I just want to get to TRUTH honestly.
 
Btw, about Fausset's exegesis, generally he's solid, but occasionally makes some rather peculiar statements.
Some of that I chalk up to Language Drift [KJV English isn't Fausset's English and neither are my English ... so Fausset knows what he meant (in KJV English) but it just confuses me a bit - both the scripture quote and the explanation].

I just like the fact that Fausset at least focused on WORDS and PHRASES, as compared to Matthew Henry that will give me long topical paragraphs with verse references scattered throughout but not really ever quoted or focused on the actual words. David Guzik is good for getting lots of quotes from lots of other people ... a place to start looking for new ideas to explore that I never saw when I read it.

Those are my standard "go to" places. I really need a good online Wesleyan source to offer a contrasting view. My commentaries lean too uniformly "reformed" (they usually tell me what I already believe).
 
My :twocents about what it means to be in Him.

Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
 
I just like the fact that Fausset at least focused on WORDS and PHRASES

Yes, I do too. It's also what I prefer discussing in threads. We can all go round and round and round about our varying theological opinions, but unless the focus is turned to the actual wording used in the text, it's all essentially a chasing after the wind anyway.

It's why I tend to pick and chose what discussions I get involved in these days, and with whom. Bonking each other over the head with conflicting theological positions all day without ever actually discussing the scriptures in question is extremely unproductive, IMO.
 
4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will

There is something to that, before the foundation of the world. What happened was God planned each one of us and even wrote a book about each one of us before we were ever born on earth.

God planned to make us in His very image and likeness by taking a small portion of His heart and substance and putting it inside of us. The Lord chose which part of His heart that we would fill when reunited with Him for eternity. So we were in Him before the foundation of the world.

I'm pretty sure that the confirming scripture would be the one about, so that man will be without excuse...

Romans 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.../

The way that I understand it, everyone has a place in the Lord's heart and those who do not get saved will leave an emptiness in the Lords heart for eternity. He loves you for who you are and who He made you to be. That is why sanctification takes so long and is a process. Because if the Lord commanded power upon you to instantly purify your soul, He could do that but it would erase your identity and your identity in Christ. He loves you for who you are and wants to keep you intact and bring us back unto Himself.

Or so it seems to me.
 
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