[_ Old Earth _] In schools

[Blue-Lightning]

I did not say we should not take the bible seriously at all!

And neither did Thinkerman suggest that.

The bible tells us when it is being symbolic,no mystery there.

Do tell.

The stars make sounds I have been told,and that is what I mean. Simply that stars do make sound.

I would assume they do, but the verse says they sing.

Listen, blueeyeliner, I read and believe the Bible. I'm a fundamentalist. I'm a young-earth creationist. But even I am getting tired of this back and forth. Maybe you should look into science and figure out where you think that scientists have went wrong instead of talking about interpretations and people knowing they are wrong, etc.

Maybe it's just me, and maybe I'm wrong, but I think for right now, you may be in over your head. Spend some time reading and learning more about this subject you intend to tackle and it may help.

:wink:

BL

 

[Guest]

Maybe it's just me, and maybe I'm wrong, but I think for right now, you may be in over your head. Spend some time reading and learning more about this subject you intend to tackle and it may help.

:wink:

BL[/color][/quote]

:B-fly: I don't disagree with Science,and the bible doesn't either.
It's my interpretation of science that some people don't accept. I believe the creationist scientists who don't agree with evolution. Thats all it is.
Yes, I believe you are right in the fact that I could benefit from my study time on these subjects. I could use more study. I believe we all can.
Do you not believe that the book of Revelation is symbolic in many places? Like when it mentions the Mother Harlot and the Beast,ect.....
What did Thinkerman mean?

 

[Blue-Lightning]

I believe the creationist scientists who don't agree with evolution. Thats all it is.

But do you understand why? And the Bible isn't a science textbook although it does contain some science - saying that you believe creationist scientists because you believe the Bible is faith, not science.

What did Thinkerman mean?

He said "literal" and you then talked about "serious."

BL

 

[ThinkerMan]

Blue:

To an extent, you did answer my first question. My retort would be that a literal interpretation attempts to take an objective view of the bible, but your comment invites subjective into it.

Obvious to you is not to others. That is all.

"Stars make sounds I have been told". I would take up Lightening's advice and read more about science before using to to defend your arguments. Sound (even more specifically singing) is only carried by an atmosphere. It is impossible for sound to pass through space.

Stars do emit a number of radiations, radiowaves, microwaves, etc. These should not be confused with sound, however.

My basic premise is that you listed a laundry list of "scientific discoveries" made by the bible. Thus, you are attempting to prove the bible through science, what I believe is a dangerous precident. While you claim to have a different intrepreation of science, you fail to expand on it.

If you wish to have a scientific discussion with some of us, you are more than welcome to. That is why many of us are here. However, you must do so in the "language of science" if you choose to do so. Using specific, observabel phenomon.

If you choose to ignore science all together, that is fine. An argument based purely on faith is stronger than one built half on faith, half on science, in my humble opinion.

 

[Blue-Lightning]

Inside and outside (for a relatively small distance) the star, there would indeed be sound as there is matter.

BL

 

[Barbarian]

Sonic waves can travel through stars, but cannot leave stars. The gnostics suggested that there were specific notes given off by each heavenly body, but that is not so.

 

[Guest]

But do you understand why? And the Bible isn't a science textbook although it does contain some science - saying that you believe creationist scientists because you believe the Bible is faith, not science.

What did Thinkerman mean?

He said "literal" and you then talked about "serious."

BL[/quote]

:B-fly: Yes I do believe that you must have faith to believe the bible,but also,the bible points out evidence that we have in this world that show we have a creator. I believe it's faith and truth.
Can you look back at Thinkermans post,because if I am not mistaken,he said that I was saying we could not take some parts of the bible seriously.
If I am wrong,I apologize,but I am sure that is what was written.

 

[ThinkerMan]

Quote:
[quote:aa7e8]It's a very good idea to just go ahead and take the bible literally except where it's obvious that you should not. God is right every time literally.

Blue, can you tell me the obvious places you should not take it literally? I am very interested in this comment.[/quote:aa7e8]

I made no such reference to "taking it seriously". You stated there are obvious places you should not take it literally . Then you say God is right every time. Which is it?

I am very interested in this. Can you tell me one specific place where the Bible is not literal, and your evidence why?

I have no doubt, nor does anyone else here I bet, that you take it VERY SERIOUSLY.

 

[Blue-Lightning]

I don't see anywhere where he said that. If you do, please quote it so I can be corrected.

No harm done, no fouls by anyone,

BL

 

[Guest]

Blue, can you tell me the obvious places you should not take it literally? I am very interested in this comment.[/quote]

I made no such reference to "taking it seriously". You stated there are obvious places you should not take it literally . Then you say God is right every time. Which is it?

:angel: O.k.......
What is the Mother Harlot in the book of Rev?
The bible uses symbolic terms and it allows you to know when it is.
We take it literally,but you need to know how to interpret the symbolic meaning behind it.
What does the Bible mean when it says the bride of Christ?

 

[SyntaxVorlon]

So you take the literal interpretation of its symbolic meaning? :
Someone doesn't understand the word metaphor.

 

[Routerider]

I recently read a post [usenet] that really got me to thinking...I have pasted it here. Wondering is anyone has any thoughts.

"I wonder how creationists explain goosebumps. In other mammals, when they are exposed to a cold environment, there are a whole series of
physiological responses to maintain body temperature: constriction of the
skin blood vessels to conserve heat, increasing heat production by various
mean like shivering, and piloerection - raising the fur to provide better
insulation.

Interestingly, humans show exactly these same responses, including the piloerection: goosebumps. To someone who accepts that humans are products of evolution, this makes perfect sense. We retain this constellation of autonomic responses to cold, even though piloerection no longer serves any useful heat conservation function for the relatively naked human."

 

[JM]

Since macroevolution has been directly observed, there's no doubt that it's a fact.

It's much better explained than gravity, for example.

Macro and micro are two very different things. Macro(evolution) happens when an animal/plant/etc. adapts to it's surroundings. Miro(evolution) is said to happen when one animal changes into another...can't prove that.

 

[Guest]

So you take the literal interpretation of its symbolic meaning? :
Someone doesn't understand the word metaphor.

:D Lets break it down. I believe in the book of Revelation,there are many words that are symbolic,like The Mother Harlot. I believe the Mother Harlot is the false church,or counterfeit church that the man of lawlessness will use to gain power,and when he gets the power he destroys this false church because he won't share his fame with no one.
I believe the man of lawlessness is the Anti-Christ. Basically,if you learn to understand the bible,you'll know what the symbolic meaning is,and bible Scholars are also a great help,and so are jewish people who believe in the whole bible,like my friends in Israel.
So yes,it is literal,but it's literal meaning must be interpretated when it's symbolic. Not all people understand the correct interpretations. Those who understand the bible do. I look up to those much wiser than myself who are known to be great teachers of the bible. I have seen the so called bible contradictions,ect....and have learned upon much deeper study and education that there are no actual contradiction at all.
I'm no expert,but I believe the experts who understand the bible very,very well. It's hard to know who the best teachers are though.That takes a spirit of discernment.

 

[Guest]

:D The bible itself lets the reader know when it is being sybolic,as when it says in the bible that he who has wisdom can calculate the number of the beast,his number is six hundred and sixty six. The bible gives us clear information when it uses symbolic terms,we cannot read the whole entire bible in symbolic terms. That would be rather odd. When simple,and clear interpretation gives the best answer there is no need to search for another
meaning.

:B-fly:

We just have to be willing to accept what the bible says even if we don't like it.

 

[Guest]

"I wonder how creationists explain goosebumps. In other mammals, when they are exposed to a cold environment, there are a whole series of
physiological responses to maintain body temperature: constriction of the
skin blood vessels to conserve heat, increasing heat production by various
mean like shivering, and piloerection - raising the fur to provide better
insulation.


:B-fly: It's not really odd when you consider that living beings will respond to heat and cold with bodily reactions.
Thats part of being alive. God made the animals for our joy. Kind of like in the same why parents give their children stuffed animals to play with,God gave us something simular but they are alive,and there was a time when animals didn't fear humans like they do now.
to this very date humans cannot inter-breed with monkeys or any other created beast and/or animal,ect......
After all this time since the bible was written,if that were ever going to happen we would have seen evidence by now,and evolving would be happening where it could be seen. We can see spiders building webs,we can see animals mating,and everything else,so why would evolution be so shy?

 

[Guest]

:o But isn't the AC considered to be The Beast?
and no,I'm not talking about the air-conditioner.
I wonder if the Anti-christ will be mans attempt at taking science too
far? Will he literally be part beast?
Something to ponder in these days of cloning,ect....

 

[Routerider]

"I wonder how creationists explain goosebumps. In other mammals, when they are exposed to a cold environment, there are a whole series of
physiological responses to maintain body temperature: constriction of the
skin blood vessels to conserve heat, increasing heat production by various
mean like shivering, and piloerection - raising the fur to provide better
insulation.


:B-fly: It's not really odd when you consider that living beings will respond to heat and cold with bodily reactions.
Thats part of being alive. God made the animals for our joy. Kind of like in the same why parents give their children stuffed animals to play with,God gave us something simular but they are alive,and there was a time when animals didn't fear humans like they do now.
to this very date humans cannot inter-breed with monkeys or any other created beast and/or animal,ect......
After all this time since the bible was written,if that were ever going to happen we would have seen evidence by now,and evolving would be happening where it could be seen. We can see spiders building webs,we can see animals mating,and everything else,so why would evolution be so shy?

But what the statement was saying is that goosebumps don't really work anymore...they don't help us to stay warm when it gets cold...it works for animals because they have fur all over.

We also can't observe evolution like we do a spider building a web...what's the difference? It takes a spider half a day to build a web....it takes thousands of years for changes and modifications to make their way into the fabric of various lifeforms.

Another way of looking at this is flying around in an aircraft and trying to watch the continental plates shift...you won't observe it beause the "shifting" takes years to happen...the process is slow.