[_ Old Earth _] Indonesian Fisherman Catches Rare Ancient Fish

[Solo]

Indonesian Fisherman Catches Rare Ancient Fish

Sunday, May 20, 2007


JAKARTA, Indonesia  An Indonesian fisherman hooked a rare coelacanth, a species once thought as extinct as dinosaurs, and briefly kept the "living fossil" alive in a quarantined pool.

Justinus Lahama caught the four-foot, 110-pound fish early Saturday off Sulawesi island near Bunaken National Marine Park, which has some of the highest marine biodiversity in the world.

The fish died 17 hours later, an extraordinary survival time, marine biologist Lucky Lumingas said Sunday.

"The fish should have died within two hours because this species only lives in deep, cold-sea environment," he said. Lumingas works at the local Sam Ratulangi University, which plans to study the carcass.

The coelacanth (pronounced see-la-kanth) was believed to be extinct for 65 million years until one was found in 1938 off Africa's coast, igniting worldwide interest. Several other specimens have since been discovered, including another off Sulawesi island in 1998.

The powerful predator is highly mobile with limb-like fins, and it gives birth to live young rather than laying eggs.

 

[Barbarian]

It turns out that the species is not all that rare. And there is a related species living in the East Indies.

However, both of them are modern species, and are very much different from coelacanths living hundreds of millions of years ago.

 

[Solo]

It turns out that the species is not all that rare. And there is a related species living in the East Indies.

However, both of them are modern species, and are very much different from coelacanths living hundreds of millions of years ago.

And you have been able to compare these species together for your great understanding. As always, I do not believe you have much truth in your observations.

 

[Featherbop]

Is this news? I thought coelacanths had been found already many years back?

 

[Slevin]

Indonesian Fisherman Catches Rare Ancient Fish

Sunday, May 20, 2007


JAKARTA, Indonesia  An Indonesian fisherman hooked a rare coelacanth, a species once thought as extinct as dinosaurs, and briefly kept the "living fossil" alive in a quarantined pool.

Justinus Lahama caught the four-foot, 110-pound fish early Saturday off Sulawesi island near Bunaken National Marine Park, which has some of the highest marine biodiversity in the world.

The fish died 17 hours later, an extraordinary survival time, marine biologist Lucky Lumingas said Sunday.

"The fish should have died within two hours because this species only lives in deep, cold-sea environment," he said. Lumingas works at the local Sam Ratulangi University, which plans to study the carcass.

The coelacanth (pronounced see-la-kanth) was believed to be extinct for 65 million years until one was found in 1938 off Africa's coast, igniting worldwide interest. Several other specimens have since been discovered, including another off Sulawesi island in 1998.

The powerful predator is highly mobile with limb-like fins, and it gives birth to live young rather than laying eggs.

So?

http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/crea ... canth.html

 

[Barbarian]

And you have been able to compare these species together for your great understanding.

It's not hard to figure out. The ancient coelacanths were small, often fresh-water species. The modern ones are large, saltwater species that live in very deep water.

Here's where you can learn about it:

The scientific discovery of Latimeria chulamnae in 1938 caused a sensation in the scientific world because it is the only living member of a very old group of fishes, the actinistians (Coelanacanthimorpha). About 120 species of coelacanths are known from fossils. They were predominantly small marine fish (though some lived in freshwater) which were thought to have died out at the end of the Mesozoic era more than 60 million years ago. They flourished in the Triassic; a fossil of a coelacanth (Whiteia) was discovered in the Orange Free State which dates to that time .
http://sacoast.uwc.ac.za/education/reso ... acanth.htm

and

"Rhabdoderma, a smallish coelacanth, the size of a large minnow, is quite common in coal deposits of both Europe and North America. In the Late Triassic the extremely abundant genus Diplurus mentioned above was definitely living in freshwater lakes and rivers of North America. Also, up to this time almost all fossil coelacanths had been small fishes of less than eight to ten inches). But one species of Diplurus was much bigger (to fifteen inches)." ~ Keith Stewart Thompson, "Living Fossil: The Story of the Coelacanth," (London: Hutchinson Radius, 1991), p. 87

As always, I do not believe you have much truth in your observations.

And as usual, your lack of judgement sneaked up and bit you in the chairholder. Think next time.

 

[Solo]

It appears that your story one of many tales in appearance of Aesop's Fables, even to your evolutionist crowd:

The Coelacanth may not be extinct, but we thought it would be appropriate to tell its tale on the site. The Coelacanth is the only living example of the fossil Coelacanth fishes Actinista. They are also the closest link between fish and the first amphibian creatures which made the transition from sea to land in the Devonian period (408-362 Million Years Ago). That such a creature could have existed for so long is nearly incredible, but some say that the cold depths of the West Indian ocean at which the Coelacanth thrives, and the small number of predators it has, may have helped the species survive eons of change.

The Coelacanth was first discovered in 1938 by Marjorie Courtenay Latimer, the curator of a small museum in the port town of East London, as she was visiting a fisherman who would let her search through his boat's catch for interesting specimens. Ironically, Marjorie was only visiting the sea captain to wish him a happy Christmas when she first spotted the Coelacanth's oddly shaped, blue-gray fin protruding from beneath a mountain of fish. Marjorie brought back the specimen to the museum where she compared it against images of known species, and ultimately realized what she had was no ordinary fish.
After sending a rough drawing of the fish to Professor J.L.B. Smith, at Rhodes University, Grahamstown, who in turn confirmed that the creature she had discovered on the boat's deck was indeed a prehistoric fish, a Coelacanth to be exact.

Since then, Coelacanth populations have been found near Indonesia, South Africa, and other unexpected places. While there have been enough sightings of the creature to indicate that there is more than one area where the species exists, it remains a highly protected and mysterious animal, a living fossil which may, or may not be the only creature from our past which has survived millions of years of evolution.

If the Coelacanth exists, isn't it possible that other cryptozoological specimens such as the Loch Ness Monster or Ogo Pogo may in fact be prehistoric animals thought to have been extinct for millions of years?
http://www.extinctanimal.com/the_coelacanth.htm

AND

Virtually unique in the animal kingdom, with a saga steeped in science and popular imagination, the fabulous Coelacanth ("see-la-kanth"), that 400 million year old "living fossil" fish, swims on. Pre-dating the dinosaurs by millions of years and once thought to have gone extinct with them, 65 million years ago, the Coelacanth with its "missing link" "proto legs" was "discovered" alive and well in 1938! At least three people have perished in the quest for the coelacanth, and possibly several others. Read all about it- including the latest efforts to protect the creature, and its pop-up appearances in "out of the way" places. Click in the navbar to the left. Check the News and Recent History sections and don't miss visits to the Coelashop for t-shirts and other "Coela-gear". The bottom of the Biology and Behavior page links the World's most complete Coelacanth Bibliography. Our favorite "Dinofish" is "age-free" and never boring! (In case you think conservation is dull, we put some of our best stuff on that page.)This is the web site of the Coelacanth Rescue Mission, a project under the direction of Jerome F. Hamlin to raise Coelacanth awareness. Welcome to award winning dinofish.com. Your feedback is invited.
http://www.dinofish.com/

AND

The Coelacanth specimen caught in 1938 is still considered to be the zoological find of the century. This 'living fossil' comes from a lineage of fishes that was thought to have been extinct since the time of the dinosaurs.

Coelacanths are known from the fossil record dating back over 360 million years, with a peak in abundance about 240 million years ago. Before 1938 they were believed to have become extinct approximately 80 million years ago, when they disappeared from the fossil record.

http://www.austmus.gov.au/fishes/fishfa ... /coela.htm

Your story telling is so much better than your scientific observation: keep telling stories until you are able to use your god-given brain for actual profitable discussions. Also be careful as you may be leading others into a ditch.

 

[Barbarian]

Barbarian shows that today's coelacanths (note that there are two species, Latimeria chalumnae and Latimeria menadoensis) are quite different from their distant ancestors.

It appears that your story one of many tales in appearance of Aesop's Fables, even to your evolutionist crowd:

Well, let's take a look at it, then...

That such a creature could have existed for so long is nearly incredible, but some say that the cold depths of the West Indian ocean at which the Coelacanth thrives, and the small number of predators it has, may have helped the species survive eons of change.
(This site also suggests that that the Loch Ness monster is a fact)

In fact...
Although now represented by only two living species, as a group the coelacanths were once very successful with many genera and species that left an abundant fossil record from the Devonian to the end of the Cretaceous period, at which point they apparently suffered a nearly complete extinction, and past which point no fossils are known. It is often claimed that the coelacanth has remained unchanged for millions of years but in fact the living species and even genus are unknown from the fossil record.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coelacanth

Surprise, again.

The Coelacanth was first discovered in 1938 by Marjorie Courtenay Latimer, the curator of a small museum in the port town of East London, as she was visiting a fisherman who would let her search through his boat's catch for interesting specimens. Ironically, Marjorie was only visiting the sea captain to wish him a happy Christmas when she first spotted the Coelacanth's oddly shaped, blue-gray fin protruding from beneath a mountain of fish. Marjorie brought back the specimen to the museum where she compared it against images of known species, and ultimately realized what she had was no ordinary fish.
After sending a rough drawing of the fish to Professor J.L.B. Smith, at Rhodes University, Grahamstown, who in turn confirmed that the creature she had discovered on the boat's deck was indeed a prehistoric fish, a Coelacanth to be exact.

Since then, Coelacanth populations have been found near Indonesia, South Africa, and other unexpected places. While there have been enough sightings of the creature to indicate that there is more than one area where the species exists, it remains a highly protected and mysterious animal, a living fossil which may, or may not be the only creature from our past which has survived millions of years of evolution.

They apparently don't know about there being two species, or the fact that neither of them are known in the fossil record.

The Coelacanth specimen caught in 1938 is still considered to be the zoological find of the century. This 'living fossil' comes from a lineage of fishes that was thought to have been extinct since the time of the dinosaurs.

Well, this one is a little better. Notice that it correctly claims that these species are from the lineage that existed in the age of the dinosaurs, but does not claim that these species existed then. I don't even think the genus existed in those times.

Your story telling is so much better than your scientific observation: keep telling stories until you are able to use your god-given brain for actual profitable discussions. Also be careful as you may be leading others into a ditch.

As you see, it was a case of you being led on by people who knew no better than you. The two species alive today are not found in the fossil record, and are merely descendents of smaller, different fish. They are are remarkable because they are representatives of a line thought to have been long extinct, not because they existed for hundreds of millions of years.