Infidelity

handy · Jun 22, 2013

[MENTION=95489]Mountain Man[/MENTION] and [MENTION=93075]Matthew G[/MENTION] I agree that it's time to "break"... :yes

... but I think your discussion here has some merit. As Christians, the Lord Himself allows for divorce in the case of adultery. Mountain Man has done a very good job at bringing out why that would be. However, as Matthew points out, even adultery can be forgiven and perhaps the marriage itself is important enough that forgiveness is the better alternative to divorce.

Bentnotbroken, you'll have to prayerfully consider what the Lord would have you do. If you divorce for the cause of adultery, there is no condemnation. But, as Matthew G points out, perhaps there is good reason why forgiveness is the better option. Hopefully the conversation between Mountain Man and Matthew G can help clarify some of the turmoil that is understandably within you.

iLOVE · Jun 22, 2013

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6:12 KJV

Sexual immorality is the biggest killer of destiny in the world. This includes those behind close door sexual sins and sins of sexual thoughts. You can not play with it, toy with it, or flirt with it. Yes, I am talking to Christians who are reading this. The scriptures says, Stay alert! Watch out for your great enemy, the devil. He prowls around like a roaring lion, looking for someone to devour. 1 Peter 5:8 NLT

If your spirit man is not prayed up, you will not be able to resist temptation. Why? Because the enemies mention above applies pressure to the flesh that is weak. We must watch and pray as instructed by Lord Jesus to resist the enemy that will flee. "Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak." Matthew 26:41 NIV


Joseph and Potipharâ€™s Wife / Genesis 39:2-12 NIV

2 The Lord was with Joseph so that he prospered, and he lived in the house of his Egyptian master. 3 When his master saw that the Lord was with him and that the Lord gave him success in everything he did, 4 Joseph found favor in his eyes and became his attendant. Potiphar put him in charge of his household, and he entrusted to his care everything he owned. 5 From the time he put him in charge of his household and of all that he owned, the Lord blessed the household of the Egyptian because of Joseph. The blessing of the Lord was on everything Potiphar had, both in the house and in the field. 6 So Potiphar left everything he had in Josephâ€™s care; with Joseph in charge, he did not concern himself with anything except the food he ate.
Now Joseph was well-built and handsome, 7 and after a while his masterâ€™s wife took notice of Joseph and said, â€œCome to bed with me!â€
8 But he refused. â€œWith me in charge,â€ he told her, â€œmy master does not concern himself with anything in the house; everything he owns he has entrusted to my care. 9 No one is greater in this house than I am. My master has withheld nothing from me except you, because you are his wife. How then could I do such a wicked thing and sin against God?â€ 10And though she spoke to Joseph day after day, he refused to go to bed with her or even be with her.
11 One day he went into the house to attend to his duties, and none of the household servants was inside. 12She caught him by his cloak and said, â€œCome to bed with me!â€ But he left his cloak in her hand and ran out of the house.

Clean Garments for the High Priest / Zechariah 3:1-5 NIV

Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan[a] standing at his right side to accuse him. 2 The Lord said to Satan, â€œThe Lord rebuke you, Satan! The Lord, who has chosen Jerusalem, rebuke you! Is not this man a burning stick snatched from the fire?â€
3 Now Joshua was dressed in filthy clothes as he stood before the angel. 4 The angel said to those who were standing before him, â€œTake off his filthy clothes.â€
Then he said to Joshua, â€œSee, I have taken away your sin, and I will put fine garments on you.â€
5 Then I said, â€œPut a clean turban on his head.â€ So they put a clean turban on his head and clothed him, while the angel of the Lord stood by.

Notice who was standing to the right of Joshua...Satan! Heaven had to intervene for Joshua because he was being resisted by Satan. The battle is a spiritual battle!

Lewis · Jun 22, 2013

Brother Mike said:
My wife Cheated on my once. I also went through a bunch of emotional junk, and cried like a school girl for over a year. My first step was to realize that me being hurt was just selfish on my part because I am suppose to love my wife as Christ loves the Church and Jesus certainly does not come crying about how His Church messed up in the past and how hurt He is over it. NO, Jesus always thinks on how to fix the problem and be a blessings to others. Not lingering on past things, that help nothing.

Once I got to that point of forgiveness. Then whatever my wife did was no issue. It would not effect me emotionally. If she cheated on me again, I would just throw her butt out because nothing is going to stand in the way of me and the plan of God for my life. She can come with me, or not come with me. No matter what happens, God has my best interest at heart, so with her or not, it does not matter. We have but a very short time here on earth to do what God called us to do, and I don't have time to play around with someone that is not on my team. Eternal things are decided here and now!!!

My goal is to be a major blessing to my wife and think of her first. She gets the best egg in the morning, first on the cup of coffee, everything as Christ loved the Church. My love for my wife is not based on human feelings but something greater that is inside me. Feelings come and go, but God's love in us is eternal.

You have to go where your faith is at. Living in a relationship where you can't trust someone is not a good thing. Anything that would hinder the plan of God in your life is not a good thing. Your husband needs taken out back and have a serious talk with some serious Christian men of God. He may not be able to walk back on his own, but I think He would get the point.

Blessings.

Mike.

Wow most men will not except a wife back that cheats. Many women will except a man back before a man will.

Brother Mike · Jun 22, 2013

Lewis W said:
Wow most men will not except a wife back that cheats. Many women will except a man back before a man will.

Not really a matter of what I wanted. The Lord told me to stand and believe and I did just that. I told the Lord I did not need the nonsense after going through all kinds of emotional things from blaming myself to hating my wife to wanting the Lord to just fix it, then back around again. It seriously took over a year to get a clue, and at that point I stopped thinking of how bad I felt and focused on others.

So, It was the Lord's Idea. If she cheated again though I would throw her butt out. Not that I would be mad or hate her, but I can't have that spiritual influence in my home and do the Plan of God. Your on the team, or you not on the team.

The whole process was not easy Lewis if you know what I mean. I was a very baby Christian when it all went down.

Mike

Lewis · Jun 22, 2013

No Mike it is not easy.

iLOVE · Jun 23, 2013

The nature of God's love enables us to love those who have wronged us. Grace is not a thing, grace is a person whose name is Lord Jesus Christ!

Philippians 3:13-14 NIV - Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. (This is the wisdom of God!)

Bentnotbroken · Jun 23, 2013

How do you forgive your spouse for cheating the second time? I truly believe he has lost his way and distance himself from God. I don't know if he wants to be the spiritual head of the home and have a personal relationship with God or if he wants to continue to be deceitful and engage in inappropriate behaviors with other women.

Sparkey · Jun 23, 2013

handy said:
Bentnotbroken, you'll have to prayerfully consider what the Lord would have you do.

Bear with me for a moment as I speak regarding a personal matter that is off topic, please.

Mine was the course of a single dad. The mother of my children asked to leave us when our youngest was almost 3 years old. Throughout that time, I have been blessed to be able to provide and today, thankfully, our children are 29 and 26 years of age, both married and have families of their own. I do recall a day when it was too much for me. I had been working in my office and a decision was made. Getting up from my desk and going to the elevator down was easy. Exiting the building, my mind turned to the Lord. As I walked out of the parking lot (it was mid-shift at that time) my thought was that I could just keep on walking. Just keep on walking.

Past the bus stop and down the road. I was not going to turn around for my vehicle. That did not matter, not one bit. Momentum was building and it was first one step and then another time. Nothing more.

It was there that I felt the presence of the Lord. How does the Holy Spirit do that? There I was, about to walk away from being a man, a dad, from being me. Who could reach through that anguish felt yet unexpressed and touch me? The Lord. He did it. Even while walking away and gathering speed I was given pause because His compassion for ME was made known. Strangely I was made aware of His permission. No, He didn't say, "It's okay," or give me any other thing designed to turn me. Mostly I just knew that He would never leave me. That's what gave me pause. What slowed my step, and allowed me to consider what it was that I wanted.

My feet stopped and then I turned. It was less than 1/2 mile back to my desk and my life was resumed. It has remained on course in that the blessing that was given continued to be given and today my children and I have a very close relationship which is one of the things that I am very thankful for.

So yes, do as your sister says and be sure prayerfully consider what the Lord wants. Be open to listen for His voice even as He meets you on the road. You are His daughter and that Love shall never fail. Rise in the newness of your day with the understanding that His Joy over you, even in the worst situations, remains constant. Not our strength, not by the force of or the weight of the burden but by His Promise, I ask, that you consider what it is what you want as well. Go before the Lord and ask your Father to make it happen.

I didn't do that in my particular case but I do consider it good advice.

Brother Mike · Jun 23, 2013

Bentnotbroken said:
How do you forgive your spouse for cheating the second time? I truly believe he has lost his way and distance himself from God. I don't know if he wants to be the spiritual head of the home and have a personal relationship with God or if he wants to continue to be deceitful and engage in inappropriate behaviors with other women.

Every Women wants their man to be strong, in charge, and the Spiritual leader. Without that, it comes to issues in the bedroom which can produce other symptoms that are rooted to this.
The question a women then asks is how long do I just pray and try to work it out? That is a big concern, because you have people telling you to dump him and others telling you to hang on.
Women need to feel loved, and important. The man needs to know what He wants and to be in control. Without that, you as a women won't feel secure or safe. This position puts you out of the role God intended you to be in.

As believers, we are to forgive and believe for our spouses. We are a team. Not forget their transgression, but love them in forgiveness, and understanding that Jesus forgave us. This tends to keep us in the cross fire when things go wrong though. We stand and forgive, and get emotionally drained.

Here is the deal though. You caught him, he did not confess. Now he is thinking of ways to keep you around, not loose everything and smooth this over. Someone that is repentant would have come out on their own and just ended the whole thing with those other women. He was caught though................... So any repentance is to keep what He has until it all blows over.

True Repentance would be to God only. If I cheated on my wife, I would have broken that vow I made before the creator of Heaven and Earth. I would have broken the Word of God. To me, getting right with God would be top of the list, not making it right with my wife. If my wife left, then I understand, I am not pulling rabbits out of the hat to keep the wife, or have to explain myself. There is no explanation for sin. Explaining it does not make it not sin. I would ask the wife to stay, and ask for another chance, but my deal would be with my Father in Heaven. Having it between Me and the Creator keeps it a solid deal.

Bentnotbroken said:
I don't know if he wants to be the spiritual head of the home and have a personal relationship with God or if he wants to continue to be deceitful and engage in inappropriate behaviors with other women.

He does not, He is only in trouble because he was caught, not that it's in him to right this himself. Now you must decided if your emotionally fit enough to just continue with him or not. I personally would throw him out, or move and not come back until he gets it right with God, and becomes the spiritual leader without you. This does not mean see other people or go looking, spend that time to get yourself strength. Once he gets it right with God (For awhile) and is solid then start dating again, even though your married. Let him know that God is first. Don't even make him think that God does not have to be first, and keep you at the same time.

Mike.

iLOVE · Jun 23, 2013

As Christian we must stand on the word of God. Relinquish control and return to the place of peace. Let God take over the wheel. Instead of worrying what's going to happen next, say God I trust you. What is meant for your harm, God will use for your advantage. God said, no weapon against you is going to prosper. The battle is not ours, the battle is the Lords.

Cast your cares on the LORD and he will sustain you; he will never let the righteous be shaken. Psalm 55:22 NIV

Give all your worries and cares to God, for he cares about you. 1 Peter 5:7 NLT

“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” Matthew 11:28-30 NIV

"I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. John 15:5 NIV

The Blood of Jesus has done it all!

JohnD · Jun 23, 2013

I am not advocating anyone's sin. Nor am I downplaying anyone's struggle with temptation. When a man crosses the line, he crosses the line no matter what the reasons were.

I know recent trends in social thinking tries to make as little distinction between males and females as possible. Women are being turned into men and men into women. A sign of our corrupt times. And there are many of them (signs). What we find acceptable on television and movies and on computer would have caused our parents and grandparents to go berserk with protest! But also the familiarity between the genders... Not so long ago chivalry and propriety would have prevented your husband and coworkers from "emotional affairs" let alone kissing and whatever else he's not fessed up to doing yet...

Men and women are not "wired" alike. Women are nesters and men hunter / gatherers. Women are naturally more particular about who they are fruitful with and men not so particular. Granted there is the element of harlot-likeness in some women (else who would the men be having the affairs with?), but not by nature... or there are complications from an abusive childhood or a seething hatred of men... (yes guys, women who are too friendly with men tend to hate their guts). Women are more monogamous than men are.

BUT, that does not make it right.

Men and women can be programmed to be worse or they can be disciplined to be better.

God created Adam and Eve not Adam and harem in the perfect setting in innocence. The fall of man is what messed everything up... God's perfect model for human sex and sexuality is very thoroughly laid out in scripture but few if any of us can keep this standard...

God gave humans a sex drive to perpetuate the race (which tells you how bad we are by fallen nature by how much trouble that drive can get us into). But he also gave us very specific guidelines that sex (all sex) is intended for one man and one woman in marriage in private for one lifetime... including the wandering eye and the overexposed body...

I say all this because when Sally Shortskirt gets hubby's attention... he doesn't think in terms like you do when Bruce Muscular Barechest gets your attention. He does not perceive of it as a threat to your marriage or that it would hurt you if he were to leer too long or flirt with her or get emotionally involved...

True women have fantasies too (romance novels counted on it). But guys have difficulty discerning when a danger is in the water or that he is about to cross a line...

This does not make it right. And my point is that anyone can discipline themselves to avoid all the natural pitfalls in life and sexuality. That's what chivalry was about, for example. The wall of propriety separating the genders for the sake of both genders and the sanctity of marriage.

Guys can discipline themselves to stay away from the tart at work or wherever... we can train ourselves to disregard flirty kudos from other women and get our self worthy from our wife's compliments etc. But even then the weakness towards what women so willingly flaunt publicly these will try a disciplined man or catch him off guard... and that's when we are supposed to run like a sacred kitty cat! The Bible says flee sexual immorality.

The other discipline is to feed our spirit and exercise our spirit through prayer and Bible study and doing good... and to train ourselves to deal with as much of life as we can through the spirit and to deny the flesh...

So often we don't, or our spirits are so emaciated and would have died long ago from neglect and starvation if spirits could actually die.

Right now I know you are hurting... and you need to vent and to share... but if you do continue in this marriage... you must get across to your husband this seven year itch thing will not fly and he needs to know (whether you explain it to him or show him) what it would be like without your love and support and doing all the things you do for him... guys also are big on taking things and people for granted...

My beloved and I will be 33 years married come Christmas 2013. And it's been a roller coaster ride. And usually it was my fault when we were in the lows. And it did happen about every seven years. No actual sexual / oral adultery but about all else... to my shame. I still have to deal with lust... but not like in the old days when I gave in to the flirtatious play at work... :naughty

When you are on guard (prepared) it helps a lot.

I should teach a class to guys, and maybe girls too about these awful things that seem so harmless but grow into such gross evil and hurt so many more people than you'd ever imagine. And the shame... most wives are too ashamed to confide these things and abuse and that's why and how it goes on...

Anyway, I hope this helps you through the terrible pain of the betrayal you are experiencing. Grandfatherly advice from an old toot in the faith...

iLOVE · Jun 24, 2013

God has said, " I call those things that are not as though they already were. I am able to look beyond your todays and see your tomorrows". "I am able to look beyond your faults, what you did, and who you did it with". He has said, "I have push those things aside". "I am looking at what you need. I am not worrying about what you are doing... I see your tomorrows"! This is God's mercy, always remaining faithful. Glory to God!

Matthew G · Jun 24, 2013

JohnD said:
he needs to know (whether you explain it to him or show him) what it would be like without your love and support and doing all the things you do for him

So then you give him an ultimatum and he turns things around because he's afraid of the consequence?

I'm sorry, but I strongly disagree. They are going to counseling and beginning the task of reconciliation. If he begins to fill his role as he should, he needs to do it because he wants to - because he wants to be the man of God he is supposed to be (which includes his role as a husband).

He does not need to be bullied or threatened into filling his role - when that happens, his heart won't be in it, and they are both wasting their time.

handy · Jun 24, 2013

Matthew G said:
JohnD said:

he needs to know (whether you explain it to him or show him) what it would be like without your love and support and doing all the things you do for him

Click to expand...

So then you give him an ultimatum and he turns things around because he's afraid of the consequence?

I'm sorry, but I strongly disagree. They are going to counseling and beginning the task of reconciliation. If he begins to fill his role as he should, he needs to do it because he wants to - because he wants to be the man of God he is supposed to be (which includes his role as a husband).

He does not need to be bullied or threatened into filling his role - when that happens, his heart won't be in it, and they are both wasting their time.

There is room for disagreement here. I will say that when my parent's marriage suffered some serious issues due to infidelity, a separation while they went to counseling turned out to be a positive thing. They both were able to see what dissolving the marriage would cost each of them... and wound up not divorcing. They instead resolved their issues, strengthened their marriage and remained happily married for 55 years, until Dad passed away.

Bentnotbroken · Jun 24, 2013

I don't want to give him ultimatums. I don't want a husband to pretend/fake things in order to remain married. I'm especially hurt because I am now realizing that he has referred to me as a "stupid slut" when talking to friends in the past. This was not the man I married, fell in love with or thought was sharing a life with me. He never treated me this way to my face. I know that counseling will help to process things, but I'm still struggling with the actual choice to forgive. I know that is what God asks us to do....but I just can't get there....

handy · Jun 24, 2013

Bentnotbroken said:
I'm especially hurt because I am now realizing that he has referred to me as a "stupid slut" when talking to friends in the past.

I can see where this must be so terribly hurtful... but when you say it was in the past, when in the past? And what is his state of mind and heart here and now for you?

Matthew G · Jun 24, 2013

Can't never could do nothin'. ;)

Seriously, though. It's just something you have to do. You don't even have to feel it right now. This (in my opinion) is similar to the commandment to love our neighbor - and our enemy.

God does not ask us to do something that is psychologically impossible. The word translated to English as "love" is a verb - an action. We are called to do unto others and to act with love.

Even if you don't feel it right now, make the decision to forgive. And then as you go about making sure you don't retract that forgiveness, and you begin following the Lord and doing His will, you will find that you do, in fact, feel that you forgive him.

Bentnotbroken · Jun 24, 2013

He said those things in February, has continued to flirt, send sexual texts and talk about girls he works with in sexual ways until I caught him cheating the last week of May. He lied about the cheating until he ran out of room to lie and had no other option to confess. He continued to delete texts from women and lie about his whereabouts and when confronted said he was trying to protect me from being hurt. He says he wants to be transparent, is participating in Christian counseling individually and together. I downloaded software on his phone so I can monitor texts and calls, with his permission, because I just don't know what the truth is. I don't know how I really feel about my marriage...it changes moment by moment...I want to honor God but I also don't want to be taken for granted or used

handy · Jun 24, 2013

[MENTION=96718]Bentnotbroken[/MENTION] So this is very current then, not really the "past"... I know once before I said that I'm in agreement with the marriage counselor that you should wait before making any decisions about your marriage. Even more so now that I know how current this is.

I believe that there are good reasons why our Lord said that sexual immorality was grounds for divorce. And, if you ultimately realize that all the forgiveness in the world is not going to repair your marriage, then there is no condemnation, none whatsoever, should you choose to divorce.

MatthewG has testified that marriage can come back from this kind of hurt and I can add that my parent's marriage did as well. It was a struggle, but after they separated and went through Godly marriage counseling, they came back together and had another 23 very happy years together before Dad passed. It can be done.

However, it also takes both partners working towards the goal. If your husband isn't wholly devoted to honoring God, you and his marriage, sadly, it won't work.

Matthew G · Jun 24, 2013

If thou faint in the day of adversity, thy strength is small." - Proverbs 24:10

" Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness." - Isaiah 41:10

" I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me." - Phillipians 4:13

" He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength." - Isaiah 40:29

" It is God that girdeth me with strength, and maketh my way perfect." - Psalm 18:32

"For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind." - 2 Timothy 1:7 (emphasis added)

"The Lord is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and he knoweth them that trust in him." - Nahum 1:7

"For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." - Phillipians 2:13

"Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might." - Ephesians 6:10

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