International burn a Quran day

[Danus]

In case you've not heard about it, Pastor Terry Jones at the Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, Fl. Is planing to burn Qurans this Sunday on the lawn at his church in protest I guess to Islam in general and to commemorate the 9th anniversary of 9/11

Here is a link to the story
My Way News - Fla. minister determined to hold 9/11 Quran burn

This planed act has sparked outrage around the world. He has been condemned for even the thought of it from world and religious leaders.

What are some opinions on this?

 

[A New Dawn]

I've read a few articles about this, and while I agree that it's beginning to be ridiculous in that we are being made to feel like guests in our own country regarding being able to say and preach certain things, I think I agree that this is going to incite more trouble than the protests over the mosque at ground zero.

 

[Ed the Ned]

The act is not a Christian act and should not be supported by the Christian Church as a whole. I disagree with Islam and believe the Quran to be satanic. I feel the act of burning the Quran is an act of aggression and hate. Daniel was forced to study the Babylonian religions and policies and everything that went with it, yet he kept his faith in God, he was public about his faith in God. He did not burn the teaching material given to him. He knew the true God and through God grace he was afforded the time to witness to the king of babylon. This caused the king to acknowledge that God was in control of everything.

Pastor Terry Jones will have his moment on the news and his act may provoke some sort of Islamic reaction. This is more for his glory and not Gods. As a Christian I feel we must distance ourselves from him.

 

[Timf]

It is interesting to note that not in one Muslim country would a similar act take place. The reason is that it is illegal to have a Bible. It seems no one in the media is interested in reporting that in Muslim countries, any known copies of the Bible have already been burned, destroyed, or confiscated.

Burning the Quran is an act of theater. A theatrical performance needs an audience. This act should obtain one.

While it is tempting to want to silence the so called Christians trying to appease everyone with declarations that Islam is a religion of peace, intentionally provoking people seems to violate the scriptural admonition to, as far as it is possible, to be at peace with all men.

From a political perspective I do not think the original intent of the founding fathers in regard to freedom of religion meant it to include Islam (the only religion that as a matter of doctrine is to be spread through murder and deception).

The media will be united in their castigation of this pastor. Since people in the media have their positions based upon demonstrated fealty to the religion of secularism (the worship of man in general and self in particular), their response will be predictable. They see Christianity as their main threat and they will rush to the defense of anyone (like Muslims) that they see as a potential ally.

In reality, the secularists do not see Islam as a threat. They feel that they will be able to defeat Islam through education just as they have been able to defeat Christianity in Europe and the US. They have an already prepared arsenal of weapons to use in their propaganda war. The word "Islamaphobic" has already been trotted out. They try to seize the advantage through language through the implication that those who disagree with Islam are simply fearful (the implication being weak, confused, and wrong).

While I do not think the pastor is correct in his use of theater, I think he is correct to point out that Islam is based on a demonic source and dangerous to many people.

Those who claim that such theater threatens the safety of our troops may want to consider that shedding American blood and spending American money to prop up a thoroughly corrupt drug lord and his family is much more of a threat.

We are not going to be able to fix the world. The use of theater or other worldly techniques just draws us further down the road of the flesh (just like the Galatians) and further from our Lord.

 

[Ed the Ned]

While I do not think the pastor is correct in his use of theater, I think he is correct to point out that Islam is based on a demonic source and dangerous to many people.

Timf I agree with the way that you have put this.

 

[Danus]

Update on this story as you might know, the pastor has called off the event, but now says he did so due to the Imam in NY agreeing to move the proposed mosque. ...interesting.

I agree largely with the statements made on this issue. However, I also feel that people are in more of a position to oppose the event due to the blatant threats of violence that we as a nation seem to just accept.

Islam is a peaceful religion and if you don't believe it they'll just kill you. Check out this quote from another story on the issue.

"It is the duty of Muslims to react," said Mohammad Mukhtar, a cleric and candidate for the Afghan parliament in the Sept. 18 election. "When their holy book Quran gets burned in public, then there is nothing left. If this happens, I think the first and most important reaction will be that wherever Americans are seen, they will be killed. No matter where they will be in the world they will be killed."

The interesting thing is he has a point. Since Islam has no prophecy, or archaeological evidences of any kind, if you destroy the Quran you really have nothing.

 

[JudaicChristian]

The news is not reporting that Americans are burning the Quran all across America... Can you say "social engineering" boys and girls? Here are some links: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=na....rned+a+Quran%22 And here: http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AsQJ....8& fr=yfp-t-701

 

[Danus]

I think by "nothing left" he meant faith - if the Muslims do nothing, than we as a whole have no faith left.

as far as Prophesy - I suggest you read a book on all the prophesies that have come to pass and will come to pass in the future,

as far as archeology - you still beleive in a 6000 yar old earth right?? and whne archaeology does not support what you believe, you simply dismiss it as false. And what archeaolgical evidence do we need to prove our religion is true?
Do you know where the tomb of Jesus(AS) is? or the Ark of the convenant? or the manger he was born in? Have they found Sodom or Gamorah? or the Garden of Eden? - yet you beleive in all of this.

We are talking about Islam. So if the Quran is burned you have no faith? I agree. That fits well with what the imam was stating. However, I got to ask, at that point when you guys kill the infidel who destroyed the Quran and took your faith with it, how is that different from all the other killings where people did not destroy the Quran?

For example, and since today is Sept. 11, why did Islam carry out the attacks on 3000 innocent people that day in NY? I mean did they have plans to burn your faith? Where they causing trouble for you guys? (Not you personaly I guess, but you know your "faith")

Lastly, can you tell me if Islam might kill this guy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRcUdruhgyw
Check out that link. This guy burnt your book today at ground zero. How long do you think he has now to live before peaceful Islam kills him for it? You don't have to give me details really I just want to know what you think in general. How might Islam carry out his death now?

 

[Danus]

Danus - I understand you hear and read what you want to because you hate Islam - but you really need to wipe that hate from your eyes.

Burning the Quran does not damage Islam in the slightest - just as burning a bible does not damage christianity.

What that guy was saying was that if Muslims do not have any reaction to the Qurans being burnt - they are weak in faith - do you understand the difference in the usage of the word?

The Islamic Faith - i.e ISLAM - is not damaged - kafirs have done much worse things than burn a Quran (which is an accepted method of destroying old unusable Qurans BTW)

But the Muslims have weak faith if it is done with our knowledge and we do not speak out against it - do you understand?

I am Islam - I did not attack anyone - and I do not condone the style of attack carried out bu the fasiqoons who did.

Secondly - who has been killed in this whole controversy? no-one - and did Muslims react by burning bibles? no.

Muslims in Afghanistan got a little roudy when protesting, but I think they have some deeper issues with America which was probably the catalyst for rioting.

The kufar have done much worse than burn our book - I think it was a symbolic thing, a blatent form of disrespect.
What can you derive from this whole episode? maybe that all over the world, Muslims are sick of being disrespected and portrayed in the manner you so politely did - maybe Muslims are sick of always having to defend our TRUE belifs from hate-mongers such as yourself who, like satan, spread lies and hate throughout the world.

keep up the good work Danus.

MA, thank you for being involved in this forum and also for your quick responses. I appreciate those two aspects of you, and I think you have a good heart from what I've read of your post.

Let me describe Christian FAITH for you as best I can. Faith is knowing there is a God and that God is in charge no matter what. faith is knowing that despite what is said or done by man God is ultimately the one who produces good from evil through his people.

With that our faith is surly tested in this world. We might be hurt, damaged, insulted, angry, righteously or otherwise, but our faith....true faith should see us through it all.

I, and many others, are having a hard time separating Muslims like you from Muslims that fly plans into buildings, strap bombs to themselves, stone men and women for their sins, or carry out any number of atrocious killings or rapes that we hear about all the time from Islamic people in this world. We are deeply hurt from the protest that we see when we hear death to America or death to Christians or Jews. To be called infidels....your people who share your religion are doing this, yet you can sit there and say it's just a few. That you and many good Muslims are not part of it and that on the whole Islam is peaceful........ Really?

I think we are the ones who have had enough....and yet in our religion, Christianity, we are to count it all joy. We are to hold fast to that which is true and to share the hope and joy that lies within us.

So with that I guess.....Thank you Islam for bringing us closer to our God. I'm sorry that we have offended you guys so much that you feel the need to blow us up, march in the streets, burn our flag and chant death to us, but I for one can not differentiate you from them because to me you all "look alike", in that you all read from the same book. Sorry to direct this at you, but you did say that you are Islam. I can't tell which one of you are peaceful and which one of you I should be cautious around. I'm not alone in that.........

Any Christians out there feel the way I do, or am I just the crazy one?

 

[Bronzesnake]

Hello again my friend.

as far as Prophesy - I suggest you read a book on all the prophesies that have come to pass and will come to pass in the future,

The Judaeo Christian scriptures are absolutely loaded with prophecies my friend, your book doesn't come close.[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

as far as archeology - you still beleive in a 6000 yar old earth right?? and whne archaeology does not support what you believe, you simply dismiss it as false. And what archeaolgical evidence do we need to prove our religion is true?
Do you know where the tomb of Jesus(AS) is? or the Ark of the convenant? or the manger he was born in? Have they found Sodom or Gamorah? or the Garden of Eden? - yet you beleive in all of this

.
You make an excellent point here. We don't need proof for matters of faith, however, there is multitudes of corroborating evidence which supports Christianity.
And I must strongly disagree with you in relation to your remark that archaeology does not support what "we" believe. It most certainly does. I suggest you familiarize yourself with some of the resources on this forum on the subject.

Take care.

Bronzesnake

 

[turnorburn]

The act is not a Christian act and should not be supported by the Christian Church as a whole. I disagree with Islam and believe the Quran to be satanic. I feel the act of burning the Quran is an act of aggression and hate. Daniel was forced to study the Babylonian religions and policies and everything that went with it, yet he kept his faith in God, he was public about his faith in God. He did not burn the teaching material given to him. He knew the true God and through God grace he was afforded the time to witness to the king of babylon. This caused the king to acknowledge that God was in control of everything.

Pastor Terry Jones will have his moment on the news and his act may provoke some sort of Islamic reaction. This is more for his glory and not Gods. As a Christian I feel we must distance ourselves from him.

Murder is an Islamic act, God brought fire and brimstone to Sodom you know sodomites, today they call sodomites gay? whats so gay about sodomy when their having an affair with your 13 year old boy/girl? now this thing with burning of that book of Anti-Christ, wake up everyone better yet go back to Sunday night football or go back to sleep.

turnorburn

 

[Danus]

Danus -I was not raised Muslim - I learned about this faith on my own - and when I studied Islam the first things on my mind were all the violence you mention - I studied, I learned, I searched for it. In my search I found Scholars and clerics and everything I needed to dispell the propaganda. All the lies I saw promoted by christianity, was one reason I left the faith - if christianity is the TRUTH - then why spread falsehood in order to cripple their competion for souls.

If you find it hard to understand how someone like me and millions of other Muslims around the world can reconcile what you see on TV and on the net - search for it from Muslim sources.

Youll never learn plumbing from an electrician

MA....Dude.....Now your saying that the violence we all read about are all lies? Like you have some secret source of info that tells you the truth, like no one else has it but you and other Muslims I guess? You want me to ask a Muslim for the facts? LOL........Look I'm not going to ever be able to be a Muslim. It's not about that anyway. This post is about this burning the Quran, an angry preacher in FL and his little idea, what people think about it, 9/11 and stuff.

Off topic....I used to work with this young lady who was Muslim. I liked her. She was smart and funny and just a good person; quite attractive too I might add. I never bashed her because of her belief and honestly I don't want to bash you either, but one day she started asking me about my belief in Christ. After I told her she started telling me how misguided I was. I honestly did not understand why she would care, but I started looking into Islam since I had no clue about it. She even gave me some literature. The more I read up on it the more I embraced Christianity. There is just no way I could "convert". 3 years later....9/11.

I found myself explaining to others why Islam would be behind such an attack. I remember that day quite clearly. I worked in a huge office at the time. Someone turned up the TV as we watched it all unfold with the first plane. I said aloud; "Wow! they finally did it." What?; someone said.

Most people where clueless then about Islam and many still are, but the impression left in this country to the average Joe and Jane American about Islam after that day is not far off the mark to what we both know about it. The difference is you accept it as truth and I don't. You also either don't understand the men behind the attack or you just don't want to embrace what your religion teaches. or.....you do and you are not honest. I hope it's the former.

Back to topic.......This post is about burning the Quran. Christianity does not teach us to kill people for burning the bible. Your religion teaches it for burning the Quran, bit more than that, we have a bunch of people who are willing to bend over and take threats from Islam, threats against our very lives for doing something like burning a book. "Don't burn the Quran or they will kill us all!" LOL

Congratulations Islam, you have won the secular world. They are completely afraid of you. However, you still have to win over true Christians and I can tell you .....it won't work.

The vast majority of us do not want to burn your book. We do think it's disrespectful to you, but if we do it, it will be to make a point that we will stand up with and for our faith. As the years go by I'm convinced that we will have to.

You can threaten us all you want, and I guess you can kill us or try to, but you'll have to because we are not going to sit here and let you, nor are we going to be converted. If you want to be Muslim ...go ahead, as for me and my house...we will worship the lord.

At some point MA, you and I may have to decide where we truly stand rather than sitting at our computers, in our comfortable houses typing out vague insults to each other. I'm not here to insult you, but I'm afraid because of my belief, frustration and faults it's going to come across that way. I can only hope that I and others are not hunted down some day just for standing up to threats, but it's nice to know there are others who stand with me.

2 Local Men Burn Quran Despite Protest - Nashville News Story - WSMV Nashville

Man ignites Koran near Ground Zero, apparently prompted by Terry Jones; crowd appalled by zealot

Six Christians rip pages from Koran in White House stunt - Yahoo! News

 

[Ed the Ned]

Sorry, Turnorburn I don't understand your reply fully. I am in no way trying to say that Islam is from God or that we must accept it. Quiet the opposite. I just don't see any biblical justification to burn the Quran. Any individual who will go to the extent of publicly, almost advertising a burn the Quran day has removed the focus from Christ. Why choose 911 to do this? Should it not be to warn Christians never to be exposed to it and to destroy it on sight? I only see self glorification through this act. Is it not better to teach the true Gospel, to warn against deception, to expose false teachings than to participate in an act of hate?
I am not a believer in the interfaith movement that is suffocating the Christian Church. It is better to teach the Gospel of Jesus Christ and if it is rejected to do what Paul did in Acts 18. MOVE ON to others. If I preach ot teach the true Gospel, God will not hold me responsible for the choices of others. If I preach a false Gospel God will hold me responsible. If Muslims want to continue to reject the diety of Christ and the Gospel, they will be held responsible by God, its not your or my problem anymore. We have done what Christ has asked us to do, the rest is up to Him. Move on, don't incite violence to prove your point!

 

[Danus]

Sorry, Turnorburn I don't understand your reply fully. I am in no way trying to say that Islam is from God or that we must accept it. Quiet the opposite. I just don't see any biblical justification to burn the Quran. Any individual who will go to the extent of publicly, almost advertising a burn the Quran day has removed the focus from Christ. Why choose 911 to do this? Should it not be to warn Christians never to be exposed to it and to destroy it on sight? I only see self glorification through this act. Is it not better to teach the true Gospel, to warn against deception, to expose false teachings than to participate in an act of hate?
I am not a believer in the interfaith movement that is suffocating the Christian Church. It is better to teach the Gospel of Jesus Christ and if it is rejected to do what Paul did in Acts 18. MOVE ON to others. If I preach ot teach the true Gospel, God will not hold me responsible for the choices of others. If I preach a false Gospel God will hold me responsible. If Muslims want to continue to reject the diety of Christ and the Gospel, they will be held responsible by God, its not your or my problem anymore. We have done what Christ has asked us to do, the rest is up to Him. Move on, don't incite violence to prove your point!

I did not understand it much either....... I do agree with you Ed the Ned, but I think we may be faced with more than turning the other cheek or simply kicking the dust off our feet and moving on in some cases. I thin kin many ways we may be faced with defending ourselves.

We have a whole bunch of people, who it seems, will cower to appease Islam; who I think are willing to make deals with the devil. We should know by now that we have an opposing religion that is willing to attack us physically. They don't even care who dies in the process. We've all but lost our country in America and maybe Christians should not think of our selves as a country anyway, but if that's true we should at least stand up and be counted.

We are not aloud to preach the gospel in over half the world. How much longer will we be aloud to preach in the other half before we are silenced? At what point are will willing to stand up for this truth? Do we preach it like you say or do we just look the other way and watch Monday night football like Turnorburn says?

who are we really?

 

[Ed the Ned]

You are on the mark Danus. I do agree that we cannot stand by and watch as Islam takes over the world. I think priority 1 is to spread the Gospel. Priority 2 is to try and live in peace when we can. And if all else fails is to defend our selves and our faith in Christ. I believe the Bible is so clear when it warns us not to be deceived and even when we try and live in peace we must be vigilant and observe the tactics of those against Christ. Both external and internal, physical and spiritual. In Romans 12 vs 18 it is clear that we cannot always live in peace and we need to make that judgement through prayer and scripture.
I'm in South Africa and I work in a school where the governing body has decided the school is Christian based, not all student or staff are Christian, but we prayer and have Bible readings in assembly and at school functions. Another school in our town works on the same principle yet the Head mistress actively promotes "alternative lifestyles". This is an all girls school. My daughter will be starting there in 2012. Some Christian girls confronted the headmistress in regards to some decisions she had made regarding the subject and since then these girls have been treated so badly by staff and kids alike.
Our battlefield is all over in all aspects of life. I am just thankful that I serve the Victor.

 

[Pard]

I think that the media blew this guy's issue out of proportion. They got smell of blood in the water and when they discovered it was just a splinter they had to make a gash.

From new information I now am getting it seems like what happened was that this group had some qurans that they were given and they did not know what to do with them. It is a Christian custom in many churches and on many colleges to have bonfires and burn anything demonic or evil. I honestly think that this was simply a bonfire, like so many churches and colleges have. Of course the media could not run with that and they also could not talk about how to any sane Christian the quran is a demonic book (just as the Muslims think the Bible is corrupt and demonic). So they had to make this worse than it was. The allegations about Westboro Baptist are kind of skeptical.

I never heard how they knew this connection existed so I am up in the air about that.

A man gave my mother a quran once (she is a nurse, he was muslim and was about to die). We had no idea what to do with it so we burned it. It is what the Muslims do when they have no more use for the book. Now, MA I got a question... Is there something about nonmuslims not being able to touch a quran? I read that there was, I'll go back and get the passage that it refers to. It was not in an anti-muslim book, it was in a book for muslims about how to properly evangelize to non muslims and it said to make sure we never touched the book...

 

[Pard]

I agree, the blame for this lays squarely in the lap of the media. I bet you could make the connection between this and the Mosque @ ground zero also. Alas, this is what happens when the media only wants to one-up everyone else in the media and when they hire people who get their journalism degree from Berkeley...

Also, I think political correctness had something to play here. The pastor never once got to explain his Christian thinking for this incident. The media was not about to let him say that the quran was a demonic book. Anyways, that's that and there is nothing that we can do about it, except turn off the TVs.

MA, do you know arabic or farse or w/e? Is that a requirement? Or do you just read the English side of the page? The quran we got was totally in arabic, no dual translation, so I seriously had no use for it, plus I already read most of the quran (of course it made very little sense...). I am curious if you are required to learn arabic because I feel every Christian ought to learn (ot at least try!) Hebrew and Greek. I myself am struggling along with it and the seminary I intend on going to requires that I take Greek and Hebrew 1, 2, 3, 4 while there.

 

[Danus]

In addition - non-muslims are nor bound by Islamic law - so even if there was law for death to a quran burner - the non-muslim would be excused form that law

Thirdly - burning Qurans is actually done all over the world by Muslims when disposing of old unusable Qurans - its an accepted method of disposal.

My reason for telling you to study is not so youll convert - its so you can teach yourself things like what I just told you, then you wont invet things in your mind.

I am drained - I am sick of constantly defending Islam to you and others against made up accusations that you guys truly beleif.

If youve got an honest question regarding some odd notion you've invented about Islam - Ill answer it, but it seems that I cant get through to you - your going to believe what makes you feel good, even if it is not the truth.

You contradict yourself over and over again. On the one hand you defend a quote from a Muslim who says if we burn a Quran then Americans will be killed, then you say your not part of that group.....then you say how sick of defending your beliefs you are, yet no one here has asked you a question other than me which you never answered. I asked about what might happen to the people who did in fact burn Qurans yesterday.

Why are you here? It's not to learn about Christianity, so what is it? I posted this to get opinions regarding the Quran burning talk on the 9th anniversary of 9/11. Your free to say what you want, but I'm now not sure of your motive at this point. You suggest I study more on Islam??? I've made my conclusions clear. I think Islam is pure evil. I think it's completely satanic. Do I think Muslims in general are evil? No. I think there are many truth seeking Muslims. I'd like to think your one of them.

We're pretty much done with questions. I would not trust your answers away. All I hear from Muslims are contradictions. I'm not here to learn any more about Islam MA. When one group of Muslims say they will kill people who desecrate their book and the other group says no we are not taught that, that tells me that you guys are not even sure what you believe. Your totally confused about your own religion and you can't even explain the views of those who carry out killing people in the name of your god.

The loudest voices from Islam are those who want to kill people like me. Where are the peaceful Muslims? If your so peaceful and compassionate why don't you talk your game to those in your religion who want to kill non-Muslims instead of wasting your time telling us, the targets of your religions aggressions, that they don't really mean what they say even though they carry out attacks.

Are your afraid of your own people? Your truth is nothing that I can see. Completely empty and void of anything good to me. I don't have any questions for you. The ones I've asked in this post are for you to answer for yourself really.

 

[theLords]

Even though it's now September 12...

I was completely against this act as well. As a Christian, this is not a Christ-like act. If Jesus was alive this is not something He would have ever inspired or supported. As an American, I was against it because it would put our troops and embassy's overseas in grave danger. However, I support his free speech and won't give in to the intimidation of the Muslims. "For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind."

What that Pastor should have done is have a "Read the Quran" day instead. I would have totally supported that. Why don't we in fact crack open the Quran and read a few passages...

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
Qur’an 9:29

"Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in their sleeping places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.
Qur'an 4:34

Sura 4-89: “They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): but take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (from what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks…â€

Personally, I think reading the Quran out loud to the people would have gotten his point across much better.

 

[theLords]

That is true, but those 50 people could have went and told another 50 people and so on and so forth. Many people are caught up in the deception that Islam is peaceful. By showing the people the truth, Christians are able to wake up and no longer live complacent/cushy lives. Our Christian brethren in the Middle East, who are Ex-Muslims, are suffering the vilest of tortures at the hands of their own people and families, yet Western Christians promote the lie of a peaceful Islam. I just recently read an account of an Egyptian women who converted being raped by the police until she agreed to come back to Islam! Is that what their God wants? Submission by force?

The Church needs to be awakened, or the Lord will spit us out of His mouth for being luke warm.