Into the waters of relativity

[Rollo Tamasi]

I wrote this in another thread and got no response.
I would like to hear people's feelings about what I said.

People were debating not being saved until one dies because we could walk away from our salvation and not be saved.
Therefore, no one is actually saved until they die.
As a believer in OSAS
I replied;
"How can I be saved if I'm not saved?
Well, obviously, you can't be saved if you are not saved.
Therefore, no one is saved.
We are a religious people that go through the motions and in the end hope that God has mercy on us.

Now where have I heard that before?
Ah yes, Allah, the merciful one! "

Unless we receive salvation when we ask Jesus into our hearts, then we are no different than Muslims or who knows how many others.
Those who don't think we are saved until the end are no different then Muslims.
I was taught that being born again, I am now living eternal life ( I have the Holy Spirit within me) and it will continue when I die for all eternity.
Therefore, I am presently living eternal life.
Now that makes sense.
That makes us different then all other religions.

Does anyone have anything to say about this or can I assume that I am correct?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

People were debating not being saved until one dies because we could walk away from our salvation and not be saved.
Therefore, no one is actually saved until they die.

The redemption of the body does not happen until you die and Christ returns. What you have now is a promise of salvation in this present age. A promise with the condition of believing (present tense). But the promise is sure. God stands by his promise....a promise conditioned on the continued believing of the person. As long as you are presently believing, you are presently saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-2).

"How can I be saved if I'm not saved?
Well, obviously, you can't be saved if you are not saved.

The problem is, what you are doing--right or wrong, that's not the point--is defining 'salvation' as 'unable to be unsaved'. That's why it's inconceivable to you that a person can be saved if there is the possibility that they won't be saved when Jesus comes back. If you don't have that predetermined doctrine in mind (that 'saved' means by definition 'always saved') then you can easily understand how a person can be saved and then not saved. Like a person who climbs into a life raft and is saved only to have them jump back into the water.

Therefore, no one is saved.
We are a religious people that go through the motions and in the end hope that God has mercy on us.

Now where have I heard that before?
Ah yes, Allah, the merciful one! "

What's different about the hope that Christians have is that it is a sure hope, not the kind of hope you have when you're scratching off the numbers of a lottery ticket down at the local 7-11 store.

Unless we receive salvation when we ask Jesus into our hearts, then we are no different than Muslims or who knows how many others.

As I say, our hope is a sure hope. I'm pressed for time, gotta get back to my brain surgeries, but perhaps 'sure hope' is bringing scripture back to memory. Our hope differs from that of the world. Ours is a sure hope.

Those who don't think we are saved until the end are no different then Muslims.

Not true when you realize that the promise of salvation is sure.

I was taught that being born again, I am now living eternal life ( I have the Holy Spirit within me) and it will continue when I die for all eternity.
Therefore, I am presently living eternal life.
Now that makes sense.
That makes us different then all other religions.

And that is true.
The person who, right now, believes in Christ has Christ's eternal life in him by the Holy Spirit.

Of course we can't discuss OSAS, but we can discuss how it is a reasonable argument that you can indeed be saved now and not be later. If nothing else, we can simply examine that doctrine without debating it.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Your words are not convincing, sorry.

 

[Michael74]

We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. 1 John 3:14 KJV

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Your words are not convincing, sorry.

(This never gets old )

 

[Jethro Bodine]

People were debating not being saved until one dies because we could walk away from our salvation and not be saved.
Therefore, no one is actually saved until they die.
As a believer in OSAS
I replied;
"How can I be saved if I'm not saved?
Well, obviously, you can't be saved if you are not saved.
Therefore, no one is saved.
We are a religious people that go through the motions and in the end hope that God has mercy on us.

Now where have I heard that before?
Ah yes, Allah, the merciful one! "

Unless we receive salvation when we ask Jesus into our hearts, then we are no different than Muslims or who knows how many others.
Those who don't think we are saved until the end are no different then Muslims.
I was taught that being born again, I am now living eternal life ( I have the Holy Spirit within me) and it will continue when I die for all eternity.
Therefore, I am presently living eternal life.
Now that makes sense.
That makes us different then all other religions.

Does anyone have anything to say about this or can I assume that I am correct?

"4 ...an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time." - 1 Peter 1:4-5

"...as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently." - Romans 8:23-25

 

[WIP]

Your words are not convincing, sorry.

Don't you trust God? I'm not being sarcastic. That's just the first thing that popped into my head when I read your last two posts so my question is more rhetorical in nature.

 

[GodsGrace]

I wrote this in another thread and got no response.
I would like to hear people's feelings about what I said.

People were debating not being saved until one dies because we could walk away from our salvation and not be saved.
Therefore, no one is actually saved until they die.
As a believer in OSAS
I replied;
"How can I be saved if I'm not saved?
Well, obviously, you can't be saved if you are not saved.
Therefore, no one is saved.
We are a religious people that go through the motions and in the end hope that God has mercy on us.

Now where have I heard that before?
Ah yes, Allah, the merciful one! "

Unless we receive salvation when we ask Jesus into our hearts, then we are no different than Muslims or who knows how many others.
Those who don't think we are saved until the end are no different then Muslims.
I was taught that being born again, I am now living eternal life ( I have the Holy Spirit within me) and it will continue when I die for all eternity.
Therefore, I am presently living eternal life.
Now that makes sense.
That makes us different then all other religions.

Does anyone have anything to say about this or can I assume that I am correct?

This should be in the Theological Discussion Group forum.
I'd like to reply to it but tomorrow....
'night.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Don't you trust God? I'm not being sarcastic. That's just the first thing that popped into my head when I read your last two posts so my question is more rhetorical in nature.

You do not understand my op
Everyone is saying you are not really saved until you die.
That's what muslims say and many others
I was pointing out how I believe I am saved now and forever, contrary to most other Christians I speak to on this forum.
If you do not believe God has already saved you, then you are no different than muslims in which case, who cares what you believe.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Everyone is saying you are not really saved until you die.

If you are presently holding fast to the gospel in faith then you are presently saved:

"...you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you." - 1 Corinthians 15:2

.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

That's what muslims say and many others

No, Muslims are waiting to see by the end of their lives if their good works outweigh their bad works.
When they die their work of earning salvation ends and they see if they paid in enough good works to be saved at that time.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I was pointing out how I believe I am saved now and forever...

You are saved forever as long as you keep believing in the salvation that is forever and never ends.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If you do not believe God has already saved you, then you are no different than muslims in which case, who cares what you believe.

No Christian that I know of believes God has not already saved them.
The argument is you have to continue to believe to keep the salvation you presently have.
Which should be no problem for you to accept since Calvinists believe that too. They just believe that the true believer will never stop believing.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

...then you are no different than muslims in which case, who cares what you believe.

 

[Hawkins]

The kingdom of God is in the midst of us. Christians form an intangible kingdom of God. They are the saved. "Saved" to humans is a two part process. In the end who is saved is a judgment from God. God on the other hand knows who is saved and the saved is already inside the kingdom of God. The other part which is lacking is the legal process known as the Final Judgment. Through the process who is saved will be made known publicly. In the mean time, only God knows precisely who is saved and thus belongs to the kingdom of God on earth. After the formal and opened judgment, we will be in the Kingdom of Heaven.

 

[Prycejosh1987]

"How can I be saved if I'm not saved?
Well, obviously, you can't be saved if you are not saved.
Therefore, no one is saved.

When a person is saved, they will know because of Gods interactions and interventions in the person's life according to scripture. For example tithers are usually people who are saved, there are exceptions. When a person is not saved they are assured of it, when a person is saved they are assured of it. When we die, the choice we made at that moment could change everything, that is why its good to keep being assured of salvation.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

When a person is saved, they will know because of Gods interactions and interventions in the person's life according to scripture. For example tithers are usually people who are saved, there are exceptions. When a person is not saved they are assured of it, when a person is saved they are assured of it. When we die, the choice we made at that moment could change everything, that is why its good to keep being assured of salvation.

This is the best answer yet.