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Is “Rapture†an Acceptable Term?

David505

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There appears to be some disagreement among our members regarding the acceptability of the term “rapture†to describe the migration of the end-time saints to Heaven’s gate. My personal preference to describe this event is “translation†[1]; however, I think “rapture†is equally acceptable. The following selection from an article by Chuck Missler is helpful:

There are those who claim that the word "rapture" isn't in their Bible. That's because they aren't using the Latin translation:

...deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus.. -1 Thessalonians 4:17 (Latin Vulgate)

The Latin equivalent of the Greek harpázô is the Latin verb rapio, "to take away by force." In the Latin Vulgate, one of the oldest Bibles in existence, the appropriate tense of rapio appears in verse 17. (Raptus is the past participle of rapio, and our English words "rapt" and "rapture" stem from this past participle.) [2]

[1] http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/t ... KJV&sstr=1

[2] http://www.khouse.org/articles/2002/444/print
 
Well most people I know that have a problem with the term are post trib believers, because they believe the term rapture is synonymous with the pretrib rapture. They prefer like you the translation, or the catching away, or the gathering together. However I being a post tribber myself have no problem with the term rapture as long as we all realize that it occurs at the post trib 2nd coming of Christ and not a moment before.
 
When John Darby in 1830's Britain coined the term "secret rapture", that's where the confusion began, because it included the false idea of Christ secretly rapturing His saints out prior to the great tribulation. Others later, like Scofield picked up on it, and that's how it became a popular idea. Back then they thought something special was being revealed by The Holy Spirit, while Darby actually changed his stance on the matter.

We see this kind of thing happenning all the time, someone claims a new teaching by The Holy Spirit and once it's actually compared with God's Word without bias it reveals an idea planted by another spirit. That's exactly what happenned in 1830's Britain with the case of Margeret McDonald and the hallucinations she had on her death bed. It is also what happened within the Edward Irving Church, which Darby was familiar with, and later denounced. People were jumping up and claiming many things by The Holy Spirit, and instead of being reinforced by Scripture, people chose to believe a lying spirit instead, as it still is today. Today, most of the Pre-Trib "secret rapture" schools have dropped off the word "secret", and try to make everyone assume that when the word "rapture" is mentioned, it automatically means a Pre-Trib rapture of the saints. That was not the case with the word from the Latin, and nor is it the case with the Greek word harpazo in the manuscripts.
 
I prefer the term "catching away" best and the OT has several catching aways. Most people think that this will just happen to the church, but I actually believe several in the future, at different times depending who you are talking about. This is how people come to different conclusions as to when "it" occurs--- they are all wrong, and they are all right. The main mistake is when it's applied to the church only.
 
veteran said:
When John Darby in 1830's Britain coined the term "secret rapture", that's where the confusion began, because it included the false idea of Christ secretly rapturing His saints out prior to the great tribulation. Others later, like Scofield picked up on it, and that's how it became a popular idea. Back then they thought something special was being revealed by The Holy Spirit, while Darby actually changed his stance on the matter.

We see this kind of thing happenning all the time, someone claims a new teaching by The Holy Spirit and once it's actually compared with God's Word without bias it reveals an idea planted by another spirit. That's exactly what happenned in 1830's Britain with the case of Margeret McDonald and the hallucinations she had on her death bed. It is also what happened within the Edward Irving Church, which Darby was familiar with, and later denounced. People were jumping up and claiming many things by The Holy Spirit, and instead of being reinforced by Scripture, people chose to believe a lying spirit instead, as it still is today. Today, most of the Pre-Trib "secret rapture" schools have dropped off the word "secret", and try to make everyone assume that when the word "rapture" is mentioned, it automatically means a Pre-Trib rapture of the saints. That was not the case with the word from the Latin, and nor is it the case with the Greek word harpazo in the manuscripts.
Good post, and you are right the pretrib rapture was created by a lying spirit, and we need to judge all things with scripture. However as a term referring to the post trib catching away of the saints I do not mind it as long as I said before we all realize it is not a pre-tribulational event.
 
The word rapture simply means to transport from one place to another. The Scriptural expressions equated with rapture are "caught up" (1 Thess. 4:17; 2 Cor. 12:4); "receive you unto myself" (John. 14:3); and "come up hither" (Rev. 4:1; Rev 11:12). When we "pre-tribbers" use the term, we mean the "catching up" of Christians to meet the Lord in the air, who then go to the planet heaven with Christ to become settled in their eternal mansions that He has gone to prepare for them who serve Him until death-or until the time of the rapture (1 Thess. 2:19;1 Thess 3:13;1 Thess 4:13-18; Phil. 3:20-21; Col. 3:4; Jas. 5:7-8; Rev. 4:1).

The rapture is not the second coming of Christ, or any part, stage, or phase of it. The rapture is a distinct and separate coming of the Lord with at least seven years between the two comings out of heaven. :yes
 
XTruth said:
The rapture is not the second coming of Christ, or any part, stage, or phase of it. The rapture is a distinct and separate coming of the Lord with at least seven years between the two comings out of heaven. :yes
This is false doctrine, not scripture.
 
Update regarding the origins of it all, now it gets specific:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Most of us know people who believe in a pre-tribulation rapture. As a
result, such are not building up their most holy faith to endure to
the END of this Antichrist War on the Saints. Thinking one will be
raptured BEFORE the antichrist war on the saints is NOT good
preparation to endure to the END of such a war. The Lord made it
explicit that IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Tribulation is when He sends His
angels for His elect. Matt 24:29-31. Perhaps a short true history of
who, how, and when the pre-tribulation rapture doctrines originated
would be helpful for you to help those whom you know to be in denial
or failing to prepare because of this Jesuit doctrine. Jesuit? Yes,
two Jesuit priests laid the foundations of the pre-trib rapture
doctrine, unknown in the history of the Church, prior to the
Reformation.

At the time of the Reformation, the vast majority of Protestants were
convinced that the Pope was the personification of the antichrist.
Most today now understand the pope to be the second beast, the false
prophet of the antichrist prince. However, at the time of the
Reformation, it was universally believed by all Protestants, that the
Roman Church was the Harlot Religion System of Revelation seventeen.
Today there is still good cause to see the Roman Church as the
religious component of Babylon, meaning confusion, in the antichrist
war on the saints.

This understanding that the Roman Church is the Religious Babylon
brought millions of believers out of the Roman Catholic religious
system, during the Reformation. Understanding that the Roman Church
is the religious component of the confusion of Babylon, in the
antichrist war on the saints in these last days, will also bring
millions from the bondage of the Roman Church to freedom in Christ.

Because of how many during the Reformation saw the Roman Church as
the Babylon harlot of Religion, it became expedient for certain Roman
theologians to turn the attention of the people away from the Papacy.
Indeed the Jesuits were responsible for the origin of the pre-
tribulation rapture doctrines. It was two Jesuit priests who rightly
deserve the title as the founders of pre-tribulation rapture
doctrines. These two Jesuits invented a counter-interpretation to
that held unanimously by the Protestants. They taught that the
revelation of the antichrist was at some far distant date. In the
entire history of the Church prior to the writings of these two
Jesuit priests all believed the eminent Resurrection, Rapture, and
Return of the Lord was a single simultaneous event, happening in the
twinkling of an eye, on the last day, at the last trump. When is the
Last Day? When is the Last Trump?

It was a Jesuit priest named Ribera who, in the days of the
Reformation, first taught the basic ideas of the pre-tribulation
rapture. Just putting the revealing of the antichrist way off in the
future was a very effective way of taking the heat off of the Papacy
during the Reformation. Then another Jesuit priest named Emmanuel
Lacunza, built on Ribera's teachings and wrote a book called The
Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty. True to Jesuit style and
stealth, Lacunza knew the Protestants were not going to widely
receive a book written by a Jesuit priest. The Jesuit, Lacunza,
therefore wrote his book under the assumed name of Rabbi Ben Ezra.
This fictitious Rabbi Ben Ezra, was presented in Lacunza's book as a
scholarly Jewish Rabbi who had accepted Christ as his Savior. By this
ploy the Jesuit Lacunza was able to get his book to have a good
reception in the Protestant world. No Protestants in the Reformation
era would have allowed a copy of The Coming of Messiah in Glory and
Majesty in their homes if they had any idea that the book was written
by a Jesuit.

Because Lacunza presented the book as written by a scholarly Jewish
Rabbi who had become a Christian believer in the Lord Jesus Christ,
he knew the Protestants would love and receive his Jesuit book. The
Jesuits certainly have not gotten less subtle, and it does not seem
the Church has gotten more discerning. Lacunza's book, The Coming of
Messiah in Glory and Majesty, was a very successful, elaborate
forgery. In his book, Lacunza taught the new idea that Jesus returns
TWICE, or TWO Second Comings. The Jesuit Lacunza was the first in all
history to teach two second comings of the Lord Jesus Christ. Lacunza
taught that at the first stage of His return He raptures His Church
so they can escape the reign of the future antichrist. His book was
first published in Spanish in the 1812.

Shortly after Lacunza's book was published, a Protestant leader in
England by the name of Edward Irving discovered Lacunza's book.
Edward Irving translated Lacunza's book into English in 1827. The
Encyclopedia Britannica, volume 12, 1966 issue, pages 648-649,
describe Edward Irving and the controversy over his teachings in
Scotland and England in the early 1800's. He was excommunicated by
the London presbytery, and in 1833 was condemned and deposed from the
ministry of the Church of Scotland because of his teaching
concerning "the sinfulness of Christ's humanity". He also began to
teach a "rapture of the Church", after a young Scottish girl by the
name of Margaret MacDonald went into a trance and described a vision
in which she said she saw the Saints leaving the earth at the return
of the Lord, before the tribulation. Her trance and vision took place
in the spring of 1830, while living in Port Glasgow, Scotland.
Her "revelation" was recorded in a book written by R. N. Norton and
printed in London in 1861.

John Nelson Darby was a leader and prolific writer among the Plymouth
Brethren. Darby was part of the Irvingite movement. He was strongly
influenced by Irving, and Lucunza's book which Irving had translated
into English, and particularly by the book by Norton, of the vision
of Margret MacDonald. By 1850 John Darby had organized the Jesuit
fraud of TWO second comings of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the pre-
tribulation rapture fraud, into a system of prophetic teachings
called dispensationalism.

In 1860's John Darby was put on the payroll of the British East India
company. The British East India Company has historically been held by
the Illuminati blood lines of European royalty, (Greek kings as
Daniel would call them). John Darby was sent to America with the
specific Illuminati goal of weakening the strong faith of American
Christians. Darby's dispensationalism was sure to be successful in
America in that purpose for which he was put on the Illuminati
payroll.

Americans were and have been proven to be particularly easy to be
taken by the Jesuit originated, non-scriptural, doctrines of pre-trib
lala land. The reason is because of what is the make up of the people
group known as Americans. Perhaps the best way of describing the
American people group is one which came from a stock of hard working,
risk taking, God fearing, people, who delight in making plans and
take special delight in having their plans come together. Americans
are good planners. As a people group they do not even want God
messing up their plans, unless He would pouf them out in a fabled pre-
trib rapture to heaven before anything bad would happen to otherwise
mess up their plans.

In America in the 1860's Darby's dispensational TWO SECOND COMINGS
dispensational interpretations met with wide open reception across
the entire spectrum of American Protestant and biblical Christianity.
A lawyer of very dubious character who had become a Congregationalist
preacher, named C.I. Scofield came under the influence of Darby and
the Plymouth Brethren. That brought the Scofield Reference bible and
most know the history from that point certainly has led to the great
apostasy, not the rapture, but the great falling away from The
Faith.

For a good, short, clear verification of this history I would just
recommend looking at the article title DISPENSATION which James L.
Blevins wrote in the Holman Bible Dictionary. J. Preston Eby has also
done some fine work on this subject. Perhaps the best and most
comprehensive work on the subject of the history and background of
pre-trib rapture doctrines has been done by Dave Macpherson. Dave
Macpherson is the author of The Rapture Plot, The Incredible Cover
Up, The Great Rapture Hoax, Unbelievable Pre-Trib Origin and Late
Great Pre-Trib Rapture. All of Dave Macpherson's books are excellent,
well written, and well researched. The best source of truth on the
subject however, is the more sure word written in the KJV Holy Bible.
The GJiGT book can also be a particularly helpful tool in regard to
illustrating what the more sure word of God says in full context on
the subject of the Great Tribulation. How the GJiGT book is organized
makes it useful to quickly debunk any pre-trib supposed proof texts
wrested from their context.

The Scofield Reference Bible was destined to have a tremendous impact
upon the beliefs of many. There were three million copies published
in the first 50 years. Through this Bible, Scofield carried the
teaching of the TWO Second Comings and the two stage rapture to
almost the whole of American Christianity. It is truly amazing when
one finds that this TWO Second Comings, and a pre-tribulation rapture
for the super duper saints, and three and a half years of hell on
earth for the not so super duper saints, is NOT supported by a single
verse of scripture in context rightly divided by the Holy Ghost.
Astonishing, yet as Fly told Babe – That is just the way things are.
Also, The Lord Jesus Christ said it would be like this – that in
these last days of such strong delusion, with such a vast majority of
false teachers having been taught these Jesuit doctrines, in the
Jesuit infiltrated Protestant seminaries, - Mat 24:24 For there shall
arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs
and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive
the very elect.

The truth train of history of pre-trib rapture doctrine begins with
two Jesuit priests. The first was named Ribera. His writings
influenced the Jesuit priest Lacunza. Lacunza influenced Irving,
Irving influenced Darby, Darby influenced Scofield, Scofield and
Darby influenced D.L. Moody, and Moody influenced a very large part
of evangelical Christianity, and almost the entire Pentecostal
movement. Someone once said all roads lead to Rome, and in the case
of the pre-trib rapture doctrines that remains accurate.

The thing that is handy about the GJiGT book is that the Chapters of
the GJiGT book correspond to the books of the Holy Bible. The GJiGT
book contains all of the pre-trib proof texts you are ever likely to
hear and gives you a tool to very quickly put them in context. All
the KJV Scriptures are in the book IN FULL CONTEXT with brief
comments. The important thing are the Scriptures, and how quickly one
can go to any given wrested pre-trib proof text and have it in
context and rightly divided. There is an ascending order to each
chapter heading. Therefore, it is very quick and easy to see how
EVERY SINGLE pre-trib proof text has been wrested and how the more
sure word of God in the KJV can quickly help anyone dispense with
their dispensationalism. My prayer is that this would help you help
someone to be able to see and hear what the prophets in the KJV Holy
Bible are crying to so many who do not seem to have eyes to see or
ears to hear, because of the pre-trib lala land doctrines.

Try to avoid making this an issue of strife or contention. This is
not one of those issues that is important outside of the Church in
your house. It is important to know the difference between those
things about which we must earnestly contend, and those things about
which we must forbear for the sake of unity. It is sad to think how
shocked most will be when they realize they are in the middle of the
42 month Antichrist War on the Saints and that ALL, 100%, missed the
pre-trib lala land rapture ride. Pre, Mid, or Post is not the issue.
Does AFTER mean before, in the middle, or at the end? Jesus said
IMMEDIATELY AFTER the tribulation is when He sends His angels for His
elect. We now need to build up our faith to endure to the end. Our
main job now is to build up our most holy faith. Our faith needs to
be strengthened to help so many who will soon be in such great need
of our help. The just shall live by his faith. Faith cometh by
hearing and hearing by the world of God. Lord willing I hope to
writing about House Churches soon.

------------------------
source: Jim Searcy
------------------------
 
Geo said:
Try to avoid making this an issue of strife or contention. This is
not one of those issues that is important outside of the Church in
your house. It is important to know the difference between those
things about which we must earnestly contend, and those things about
which we must forbear for the sake of unity. It is sad to think how
shocked most will be when they realize they are in the middle of the
42 month Antichrist War on the Saints and that ALL, 100%, missed the
pre-trib lala land rapture ride. Pre, Mid, or Post is not the issue.
Does AFTER mean before, in the middle, or at the end? Jesus said
IMMEDIATELY AFTER the tribulation is when He sends His angels for His
elect. We now need to build up our faith to endure to the end. Our
main job now is to build up our most holy faith. Our faith needs to
be strengthened to help so many who will soon be in such great need
of our help. The just shall live by his faith. Faith cometh by
hearing and hearing by the world of God. Lord willing I hope to
writing about House Churches soon.

------------------------
source: Jim Searcy
------------------------
Excellent post. I think the question I emboldened should end the whole controversy.
 
there is no rapture. the verses in revelations that people claim is a rapture already have taken place.
 
yepimonfire said:
there is no rapture. the verses in revelations that people claim is a rapture already have taken place.
What verse would that be??????
 
im collecting data on it right now, keep a lookout and i will post it when finished

also know that the idea of a rapture was a misinterpretation of I Thes. 4:13-18 which is talking about the ressurection when christ returns of those who died after accepeting christ, we were given immortal life thru christ, and we will receive it when he returns, but there is no rapture.
 
yepimonfire said:
im collecting data on it right now, keep a lookout and i will post it when finished

also know that the idea of a rapture was a misinterpretation of I Thes. 4:13-18 which is talking about the ressurection when christ returns of those who died after accepeting christ, we were given immortal life thru christ, and we will receive it when he returns, but there is no rapture.
What about those that are alive and remain that are caught up right after Christ resurrects the just? What do you refer to that as?
 
Rapture
Jesus coming FOR His Church. John 14:1-3, 1 Thess 4:14-17
Caught up with Him in the air 1 Thess 4:13-18
Christians taken first, unbelievers are left behind. 1 Thess 4:13-18
Purpose: To present the Church to Himself and to the Father 2 Cor 11:2, Rev. 19:6-9
MARRIAGE: Marriage of Lamb in heaven after the Rapture
Happens in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye (too fast for eyes to see) 1 Cor 15:52
Only Christians will see Him 1 John 3:2, 1 Cor 15:52
Jesus descends with a shout(for resurrection) 1 Thess 4:16
A resurrection takes place 1 Thess 4:13-18, 1 Cor 15:51-54
Can happen at any time Rev 3:3, 1 Thess 5:4-6
No angels are sent to gather (resurrected people don't need angels to help them)
Spirits of those dead in Christ return with Jesus to receive their their resurrected bodies 1 Thess 4:14-16
Jesus does not return on a white horse
For the Church only (those in Christ) 1 Thess 4:14-17
A message of hope and comfort 1 Thess 4:18, Titus 2:13, 1 John 3:3


Second Coming
Jesus coming WITH His Church Col 3:4, Zech 14:5, Jude 14, Rev 19:14
Jesus' feet touch the earth Zech 14:4, Rev:11-21
Wicked are taken first, the righteous (Tribulation saints) are left behind.Matt 13:28-30
Purpose: To execute judgment on earth and set up His Kingdom Jude 14-15,Rev 19:11-21, Zech 14:3-4
WAR: Marriage is followed by war on earth at the 2nd coming
Slow coming, people will see Him come back.Zech 12:10 Matt 24:30, Rev 1:7
Every eye will see Him Rev. 1:7
No shout mentioned Rev. 19:11-21
No resurrection mentioned Rev 1:7, 19:11-21, Zech 12:10, 14:4-5
Occurs at end of 7 years of Tribulation Dan 9:24-27Matt 24:29-30, 2 Thess 2:3-8
Angels sent forth to gather people together for judgment Matt 13:39, 41, 49, 24:31, 25:31, 2 Thess 1:7-10
I posted the difference between the rapture before the tribulation of the church and the second coming at the end of the age. Just one quick thing tonight “its late†if Jesus said He did not know when He is coming back, then how to we know.. Well we know that when the antichrist signs an agreement with Israel there is 7years left. When the antichrist desecrates the temple there is 3.5 years left.. Now my question is if Jesus didn’t know then how can we know.. But if Jesus is talking about the rapture, again it is when Jesus comes for His bride.. Jewish wedding,, you guys need to read up on this subject. And stop call trib rapture a false doctrine.. Because you can not say 100% than your right.. be honest now.. you can know when Jesus is coming at the second coming, when the antichrist comes on the scene..

More to come.. its late..
 
It is sad to think how
shocked most will be when they realize they are in the middle of the
42 month Antichrist War on the Saints and that ALL, 100%, missed the
pre-trib lala land rapture ride. Pre, Mid, or Post is not the issue.
Does AFTER mean before, in the middle, or at the end? Jesus said
IMMEDIATELY AFTER the tribulation is when He sends His angels for His
elect.

Jesus was quoting the idea found in Isaiah 27 regarding the elect being Israel. The idea comes from those of us who believe in dispensations or ages where God deals with people differently for that age. Bullinger believed the gospel books were dealing with Israel, and then the church age is parenthetical (as revealed to Paul) where the Gentiles were also included in the promises in the Epistles. When the church age closes, God will be dealing with Israel again (Revelation). This is the point for 144,000 sealed from each tribe as the firstfruits.

The whole confusion regarding "elect" can be cleared up if we understand that "elect" does not necessarily mean spiritually saved. There are those elect of race (i.e. Israel based on genealogy) who are given earthly promises, and there's elect of grace (the body of Christ in this age). Even though Israelites can be numerous, have a dynasty, are indeed many nations, number about 1/4 of the world's population, and become a powerful people, all which are direct blessings and promises of God, yet they can be spiritually lost. However, that being said, the bible clearly teaches that they will be given a chance at salvation in the future times, thus God turns back to them.

The whole point of the church right now is not to "get everyone saved in the world", but God chooses a select few to rule and reign with Christ and the salvation of the masses, especially Israel, will come in the Kingdom age. Also remember >>> If Jesus was indeed quoting Isaiah, there was not a church back then, nor was it revealed until NT times, and he was speaking to his own people as well in that discourse (the elect of race). So, the context of the "elect" there is about Israel.
 
yepimonfire said:
do not forget the dead are ressurected BEFORE the living are caught up
I agree, but if not rapture, what would you call the catching up?
 
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