Is Catholicism another religion?

[JustifiedByFaith]

Does the teachings and practices in the Roman Catholic Church make it Christian or another belief altogether?

 

[thessalonian]

I know, I know.

We believe that Jesus Christ is the savior of the World!
We believe in the trinity.
We believe in the resurrection of the dead and eternal life.
We believe that he was born of a virgin after being concieved by the Holy Spirit.
We believe God created the heavens and the earth.
We believe Jesus ascended in to heaven and sits at the right hand of the father.
We believe in Salvation by grace through faith.


We're pretty Christian. In fact the Catholic Church is the fullness of Christianity. :-D

Thx for the question.

 

[stray bullet]

Does the teachings and practices in the Roman Catholic Church make it Christian or another belief altogether?

The Catholic Church was the first group of Christians.

The question is, are those that left the Church still Christian? Which I think is still a yes.

 

[JustifiedByFaith]

Dear thessalonian and stray bullet,

Thank you both for your replies, I look forward to hearing from others to get an overall feel regarding the thread question.

 

[MrVersatile48]

Have you read @ the Great Apostasy? It may be @ 2 Timothy 3

http://www.BibleGateway.org has a concordance if not

Certainly, the whole thesis of 'The Two Babylons' by Alexander Hislop is that, far fro popes being infallible, their proclaiming such plethora of blasphemous idolatry diqualifies RCC from being Christian, but many who attend have become evangelical - (trust God's Word & 'let God be true & all men liars')

WEB RESULTS

The Two Babylons: Table of Contents
by Alexander Hislop. Philologos Religious Online Books. http://www.Philologos.org. The Two Babylons. or The Papal Worship. Proved to be the Worship of Nimrod and His Wife. By the Late Rev. Alexander Hislop http://www.philologos.org/__eb-ttb - 10k - Cached - More from this site - Save
Index - The Two Babylons

The Two Babylons gives proof of the Babylonian character of the Papal church. ... The Two Babylons. (or The Papal Worship Proved to be the Worship of Nimrod and His Wife). An extremely well-researched study by the Rev. Alexander Hislop ... http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/2babindx.htm - 8k - Cached - More from this site - Save

The Two Babylons--Alexander Hislop

The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop. The classic 323-page book detailing the pagan origins of various Roman Catholic traditions. Now see this online book in an easy to browse format. ... The Two Babylons. or The Papal Worship Proved to be. the Worship of Nimrod and His Wife. By the Late Rev. Alexander Hislop ... to order this book and others on ... http://www.biblebelievers.com/babylon - 7k - Cached - More from this site - Save

The Two Babylons: The Invisible Head of the Papacy
by Alexander Hislop. Philologos Religious Online Books. http://www.Philologos.org.

The Two Babylons. Alexander Hislop. Chapter VII. Section V. The Name of the Beast, the Number of His Name-- The Invisible Head of the Papacy ... The name of the system is "Mystery" (Rev 17:5). Here ... Satur," the martyr. ( CHAMBER'S Book of Days ... http://www.philologos.org/__eb-ttb/sect75.htm - 53k - Cached - More from this site - Save


Contents
Introduction

Chapter I
Distinctive Character of the Two Systems (35k)

Chapter II
Objects of Worship
Section I. Trinity in Unity (22k)
Section II. The Mother and Child, and the Original of the Child (14k)

Sub-Section I. The Child in Assyria (57k)
Sub-Section II. The Child in Egypt (22k)
Sub-Section III. The Child in Greece (28k)
Sub-Section IV. The Death of the Child (10k)
Sub-Section V. The Deification of the Child (61k)

Section III. The Mother of the Child (73k)

Chapter III
Festivals
Section I. Christmas and Lady-day (35k)
Section II. Easter (41k)
Section III. The Nativity of St. John (42k)
Section IV. The Feast of the Assumption (11k)
See Chapter V, Section IV regarding Cupid (St. Valentine's Day)

Chapter IV
Doctrine and Discipline
Section I. Baptismal Regeneration (47k)
Section II. Justification by Works (39k)
Section III. The Sacrifice of the Mass (25k)
Section IV. Extreme Unction (6k)
Section V. Purgatory and Prayers for the Dead (10k)

Chapter V
Rites and Ceremonies
Section I. Idol Procession (15k)
Section II. Relic Worship (16k)
Section III. The Clothing and Crowning of Images (17k)
Section IV. The Rosary and the Worship of the Sacred Heart (10k)
Section V. Lamps and Wax-Candles (18k)
Section VI. The Sign of the Cross (21k)

Chapter VI
Religious Orders
Section I. The Sovereign Pontiff (36k)
Section II. Priests, Monks, and Nuns (19k)

Chapter VII
The Two Developments Historically and Prophetically Considered
Section I. The Great Red Dragon (79k)
Section II. The Beast from the Sea (44k)
Section III. The Beast from the Earth (22k)
Section IV. The Image of the Beast (26k)
Section V. The Name of the Beast, the Number of His Name Invisible Head of the Papacy (47k)

Conclusion (28k)


There are many phrases in Revelation 17 that can only be an occult-dominated ecumenical false superchurch led by Rome

Revelation 18 clearly says, 'Come out from among them so you will not share their punishment'

Any who know their Bible well can google 'catechism' & see how cataclysmically catastrophic the RCC's is

To save much repetition, I'll link a thread that seems to have baffled RCC for @ 4 months:-

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... c&start=15


Ian

 

[thessalonian]

Your a slippery one Mr. V. After complaing that you only had 8 minutes you promised us a response to Mr. PhatCatholic's questions on this thread. 4 months later we still wait:

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... highlight=

I just bumped it because you so like Mr. Hisplop's sloppy work but never answered the articles, some of which were Protestant, declaring Hislop's work to be a lie. One of the writers actually wrote his own book off of Hislop's book and then later saw the fallacy of Hislop's arguements. Hislop uses the same logic that anti-trinitarians do against trinitarians. Is that good logic Mr. V. Seems you will sleep with anyone to disparage the Catholic faith Mr. V.

Have a look folks. It won't cost you anything.

Blessings

 

[thessalonian]

To save much repetition, I'll link a thread that seems to have baffled RCC for @ 4 months:-

Yes, what is baffling is your inability to address the issues raised in the thread in a direct manner and answer questions directly asked of you in that regard. I truly feel you don't understand the questions or significance of them. Truly sad.

 

[JustifiedByFaith]

Dear all,

There are many books on the market regarding the differences between Protestant and Catholic teachings. Many of these books in my opinion are harsh and not showing those variations in a loving manner. I have found great edification and understanding being a Protestant after reading "Protestants & Catholics "Do They Now Agree?" by John Ankerberg & John Weldon. Many Churches and Denominations have a, "What we believe" or "Statement of faith" for outsiders to review. The real question is, "What does an organization teach, profess and practice inside it's walls?

 

[thessalonian]

Dear all,

There are many books on the market regarding the differences between Protestant and Catholic teachings.

By protestants who distort it. There are some that do attempt to be fair.

[quote:3cd4a]Many of these books in my opinion are harsh and not showing those variations in a loving manner.

to the point of twisting and distorting what we believe and then knocking down the created strawman.

I have found great edification and understanding being a Protestant after reading "Protestants & Catholics "Do They Now Agree?" by John Ankerberg & John Weldon.

He really should have started out with a book called "Protestants and Protestants, Do They Now Agree?". Haven't read his book. Sometime I might.

[/quote:3cd4a]Many Churches and Denominations have a, "What we believe" or "Statement of faith" for outsiders to review. The real question is, "What does an organization teach, profess and practice inside it's walls?[/quote]

Ya might try the Catechism of the Catholic Church if you think we're hiding something. Most protestants get their "understanding" of Catholicism from books like "Roman Catholicism" by Lorainne Boetner. An error filled book. The real question is what is truth? Which one of the thousands of denominations of Protestantism has it. Jesus tells us "you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free" and "those who worship God shall worship in spirit and in TRUTH". But I see everything from Arminianism to Once Saved Always Saved in Protestantism. Those who deny the trinity to those who affirm it. Those who believe that baptism confers the Holy Spirit and is salvific to those who even neglect to promote it. Those who believe Christ is present (consubstantiation) in the Lord's Supper to those who see it only as symbolic. Shall I go on. Try not to paint a unity among denominations and a "protestant" position. It just doesn't hold water. I don't think anyone can represent "Protestantism" as Mr. Anklberg tries to do apparently.

Blessings

 

[JustifiedByFaith]

Dear all,

There are many books on the market regarding the differences between Protestant and Catholic teachings.

By protestants who distort it. There are some that do attempt to be fair.

[quote:3b74f]Many of these books in my opinion are harsh and not showing those variations in a loving manner.

to the point of twisting and distorting what we believe and then knocking down the created strawman.

[quote:3b74f]I have found great edification and understanding being a Protestant after reading "Protestants & Catholics "Do They Now Agree?" by John Ankerberg & John Weldon.

He really should have started out with a book called "Protestants and Protestants, Do They Now Agree?". Haven't read his book. Sometime I might.

[/quote:3b74f]Many Churches and Denominations have a, "What we believe" or "Statement of faith" for outsiders to review. The real question is, "What does an organization teach, profess and practice inside it's walls?[/quote:3b74f]

[/quote]

Dear thessalonian,

It appears that we are in agreement in "how" outsiders tend to mis-interpret the "teaching & practices" of the RCC. Although I must also say that my issues mostly are around the "adoration and focus" of Mary. A biblical study of Mary shows her to be nothing more than a young girl used by God to bring the Savior into the world. Mary herself calls herself a "bondservant". She also acknowledges her need of a Savior in the scriptures. I think that if she knew how she has been "elevated" more than a "bondservant" she would be upset and remind people that her role was very limited and she was submissive in nature. She would say that all worship and focus should be on Jesus who needs no Mediator between God and men.

That's all I had to say really thessalonian...

Take care.

 

[thessalonian]

Dear justified,

It appears that we are in agreement in "how" outsiders tend to mis-interpret the "teaching & practices" of the RCC.

Then why do you do it. :-? See below.

Although I must also say that my issues mostly are around the "adoration and focus" of Mary.

Can you perhaps show me in my Catechism where it says I am to adore Mary. I missed that paragraph.

# 2628 8 Adoration is the first attitude of man acknowledging that he is a creature before his Creator. It exalts the greatness of the Lord who made us and the almighty
URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2628.htm

2096 Adoration is the first act of the virtue of religion. To adore God is to acknowledge him as God, as the Creator and Savior, the Lord and Master of everything that exists, as infinite and merciful Love. "You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve," says Jesus, citing Deuteronomy.

2114 Human life finds its unity in the adoration of the one God. The commandment to worship the Lord alone integrates man and saves him from an endless disintegration. Idolatry is a perversion of man's innate religious sense. An idolater is someone who "transfers his indestructible notion of God to anything other than God."


971 "All generations will call me blessed": "The Church's devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship." The Church rightly honors "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of 'Mother of God,' to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs. . . . This very special devotion . . . differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration." The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an "epitome of the whole Gospel," express this devotion to the Virgin Mary.

2132 The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes idols. Indeed, "the honor rendered to an image passes to its prototype," and "whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it." The honor paid to sacred images is a "respectful veneration," not the adoration due to God alone:

Religious worship is not directed to images in themselves, considered as mere things, but under their distinctive aspect as images leading us on to God incarnate. The movement toward the image does not terminate in it as image, but tends toward that whose image it is.

A biblical study of Mary shows her to be nothing more than a young girl used by God to bring the Savior into the world. Mary herself calls herself a "bondservant".

Elizabeth said "blessed are you among women " and "all generations shall call you blessed". Do you call her blessed? Yes, she was lowly but God raised her up!

She also acknowledges her need of a Savior in the scriptures.

Let me see, now if I were to stop someone from falling in to a manhole would I save them? I would also save them if I pulled them out after they had fallen in. Mary has Christ as here savior in the later context. Do you not agree that if Christ by his grace prevented her from sin he would have saved her?

I think that if she knew how she has been "elevated" more than a "bondservant" she would be upset and remind people that her role was very limited and she was submissive in nature.

Her greatness is in her fiat "let it be done unto me according to your will", "blessed rather are those who hear the word of the Lord and keep it.".

She would say that all worship and focus should be on Jesus who needs no Mediator between God and men.

Perhaps you can also find in our catechism where it says that there is another mediator besides Jesus? Do you agree that intercession of others is a virtious thing?

2593 The prayer of Moses responds to the living God's initiative for the salvation of his people. It foreshadows the prayer of intercession of the unique mediator, Christ Jesus.


Couple of citations from the CCC
480 Jesus Christ is true God and true man, in the unity of his divine person; for this reason he is the one and only mediator between God and men.


8: CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2574 (291 bytes ) preview document matches
becomes the most striking example of intercessory prayer, which will be fulfilled in "the one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."


9: CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2674 (502 bytes ) preview document matches
her Son "who still journey on earth surrounded by dangers and difficulties." Jesus, the only mediator, is the way of our prayer;

10: CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 956 (580 bytes ) preview document matches
the Father for us, as they proffer the merits which they acquired on earth through the one mediator between God and men, Christ Jesus. So by their fraternal concern



That's all I had to say really thessalonian...

Take care.[/quote]

 

[JustifiedByFaith]

Dear thessalonian,

I sense that some previous people on this forum have been harsh and un-kind toward you and your beliefs? Please don't be on the defensive. I only ask you if Mary is mentioned within the church in a context other than simply being the mother of Jesus? If so, is she "elevated" any higher in stature than simply being the mother of Jesus? Is she "elevated" any higher than she said about herself as a "lowly state of His maidservant"? in Luke 1:48. Is she "elevated" any higher than you or me? Mary also understood she was in need of a Savior and falls also under the verse... "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"? Is she elevated any higher than us as being found, "without sin"? Is she "elevated" within the church any higher in stature than she humbly said and submited to God to be used by Him? Mary said, "Behold, the maidservant of the Lord! Let it be to me according to your word." Luke 1:38

 

[thessalonian]

Well let's see, in her humility she saw herself as a servant. Now was their anyone else in scripture who likewise saw himself as a servant though he was much greater than that title invokes in the minds of men?


Phil 2
[6] who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
[7] but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
[8] And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross.


Does his being a servant deny his position of honor as God? No, and no less does Mary's position as "blessed are you among women" deny that "all generations shall call me blessed". I may have attributed this to Elizabeth in my last post. Didn't she say that as well? Was Mary overelevating herself here? I don't think so. It is not contrary to position in the eyes of God to be a servant. Quite the contrary:

Luke.22
[26] But not so with you; rather let the greatest among you become as the youngest, and the leader as one who serves.

Service in humiliy is greatness in the eyes of God.

I lay it out staight my friend. If you cannot handle that then perhaps you shouldn't challenge Catholic teaching or whether it is Christian or not. Should I be forbidden from stating my position in this thread?


Blessings

 

[JustifiedByFaith]

Well let's see, in her humility she saw herself as a servant. Now was their anyone else in scripture who likewise saw himself as a servant though he was much greater than that title invokes in the minds of men?


Phil 2
[6] who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
[7] but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
[8] And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross.


Does his being a servant deny his position of honor as God? No, and no less does Mary's position as "blessed are you among women" deny that "all generations shall call me blessed". I may have attributed this to Elizabeth in my last post. Didn't she say that as well? Was Mary overelevating herself here? I don't think so. It is not contrary to position in the eyes of God to be a servant. Quite the contrary:

Luke.22
[26] But not so with you; rather let the greatest among you become as the youngest, and the leader as one who serves.

Service in humiliy is greatness in the eyes of God.

I lay it out staight my friend. If you cannot handle that then perhaps you shouldn't challenge Catholic teaching or whether it is Christian or not. Should I be forbidden from stating my position in this thread?


Blessings

Dear thessalonian,

As one is "blessed" who reads and hears the words of Revelation Revelation 1:3... what does "blessed" do to someone? Does it elevate authority? Does it cause a "promotion"? Does it give us special privilages? In Mary's case, as being "blessed by God", what did that do to her?

 

[JustifiedByFaith]

Service in humiliy is greatness in the eyes of God.

I lay it out staight my friend. If you cannot handle that then perhaps you shouldn't challenge Catholic teaching or whether it is Christian or not. Should I be forbidden from stating my position in this thread?


Blessings

Dear thessalonian,

Again, I only want to continue discussion in a caring and thoughtful manner as I feel we have done so far. I will be the first to depart from discussion if I ever sense we are getting "ugly" toward one another...that would not be "edifying" of course.

Answer: Service in humility is great in the eyes of God.

Answer: Moderators should "NEVER" be forbidden to state thier position on threads and it should always be welcomed.

Note: I look for Mary in the bible and subject all other mentions or teachings or practices regarding her to that standard.

 

[thessalonian]

Well let's see, in her humility she saw herself as a servant. Now was their anyone else in scripture who likewise saw himself as a servant though he was much greater than that title invokes in the minds of men?


Phil 2
[6] who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
[7] but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
[8] And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross.


Does his being a servant deny his position of honor as God? No, and no less does Mary's position as "blessed are you among women" deny that "all generations shall call me blessed". I may have attributed this to Elizabeth in my last post. Didn't she say that as well? Was Mary overelevating herself here? I don't think so. It is not contrary to position in the eyes of God to be a servant. Quite the contrary:

Luke.22
[26] But not so with you; rather let the greatest among you become as the youngest, and the leader as one who serves.

Service in humiliy is greatness in the eyes of God.

I lay it out staight my friend. If you cannot handle that then perhaps you shouldn't challenge Catholic teaching or whether it is Christian or not. Should I be forbidden from stating my position in this thread?


Blessings

Dear thessalonian,

As one is "blessed" who reads and hears the words of Revelation Revelation 1:3... what does "blessed" do to someone? Does it elevate authority? Does it cause a "promotion"? Does it give us special privilages? In Mary's case, as being "blessed by God", what did that do to her?

You tell me.

What's your point?

 

[thessalonian]

Answer: Moderators should "NEVER" be forbidden to state thier position on threads and it should always be welcomed.

It was not in the context of my being a moderator and I really do wish that in discussions unless I act in that capacity people would ignore it.

Note: I look for Mary in the bible and subject all other mentions or teachings or practices regarding her to that standard.

Let's see I've given you scripture so far, you just haven't agreed with it. I have much more of course. Now why should I take your interpretations over mine?

Where does the Bible tell you that the standard to go by is scripture and your understanding of what the words mean will be correct?

 

[JustifiedByFaith]

You tell me.

What's your point?

According to Catholic teaching, who is Mary today and what if anything is her current function nowdays?

 

[thessalonian]

According to Catholic teaching, who is Mary today and what if anything is her current function nowdays?

Mary interceeds for us in heaven before her son the eternal David King. The mother of the son in the Old Testament was the Queen. She spoke for the people to the king. I.e. interceeded for them. Jesus is our spiritual brother, the son of Mary and so Mary is our spiritual mother. Eve was the mother of all men in the flesh, Mary is the mother of all men in the spirit. Her fiat to God "let it be done unto me according to thy will" allowed for all men to be regenerated in Christ, to become new creations by HIS grace. She requests that grace for us. If you need direct quotations to the scriptures I have illuded to let me know. I am assuming you are familiar with the passages I speak of. In rev 12 we are told that:

[17] Then the dragon was angry with the woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring on those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea.

This woman can be seen as the Church in one sense but in another it is clear to me that it is Mary who is a type of the Church. She gave birth to the Church which is the body of Christ (romans 12) by giving birth to the Son of God. I give Mary great honor because of all of this. But note I do not in any way shape or form say that she is God, but she did these great things through the power of God. Mary sits at the right hand of her son in heaven:

Psalm 46
[9] daughters of kings are among your ladies of honor;
at your right hand stands the queen in gold of Ophir.

This is why when the sons of thunder asked for the special places on Jesus right and left he said they have already been given. Hope I am not using too much scripture for you.

Much more I could say of course but I doudt you will accept what I have said here.

Blessings

 

[JustifiedByFaith]

According to Catholic teaching, who is Mary today and what if anything is her current function nowdays?

Mary interceeds for us in heaven before her son the eternal David King. The mother of the son in the Old Testament was the Queen. She spoke for the people to the king. I.e. interceeded for them. Jesus is our spiritual brother, the son of Mary and so Mary is our spiritual mother. Eve was the mother of all men in the flesh, Mary is the mother of all men in the spirit. Her fiat to God "let it be done unto me according to thy will" allowed for all men to be regenerated in Christ, to become new creations by HIS grace. She requests that grace for us. If you need direct quotations to the scriptures I have illuded to let me know. I am assuming you are familiar with the passages I speak of. In rev 12 we are told that:

[17] Then the dragon was angry with the woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring on those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea.

This woman can be seen as the Church in one sense but in another it is clear to me that it is Mary who is a type of the Church. She gave birth to the Church which is the body of Christ (romans 12) by giving birth to the Son of God. I give Mary great honor because of all of this. But note I do not in any way shape or form say that she is God, but she did these great things through the power of God. Mary sits at the right hand of her son in heaven:

Psalm 46
[9] daughters of kings are among your ladies of honor;
at your right hand stands the queen in gold of Ophir.

This is why when the sons of thunder asked for the special places on Jesus right and left he said they have already been given. Hope I am not using too much scripture for you.

Much more I could say of course but I doudt you will accept what I have said here.

Blessings

Dear thessalonian,

Thank you for your answer. Think positive. 8-)