Genesis 25:22. And the children struggled together within her: 25:23. And lord said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; 25:34. Then jacob gave ESAU bread and pottage of lentles; and he did eat and drink, and rose up, and went his way; thus ESAU despised his birthright. In Hebrew chapter 12, ESAU is called a profane person. He didn't care about God or his heritage. Romans 9:13. As it is written, Jacob I loved, but ESAU have I hated. It's clear God hated ESAU. Socialism is of satanism. Russia is still defined by it. Jesus told His disciples to put nets on right side of the boat. On the left side is communism and socialism. Malachi 1:3. And I hated ESAU, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for dragons of the wilderness. Genesis chapter 27, ESAU descendants would always live away from fat of the land. The blessings and birthright goes to Jacob. ESAU has no blessings. America is so blessed, our nation exports wheat and grain to other nations, including Russia. Our nation has given money to Russia. Theirs few Christian people in Russia, but many embrace socialism. Its godless government. Which nations is Jacob, and which nation is ESAU. Who has the birthright??.
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Is ESAU Russia?? Why did God hate ESAU??
- Thread starter Anaphora
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Dorothy Mae
Member
Jacob was Israel and Esau became the Edomites long ago destroyed.
The nation of Edom were ESAU's descendents. They were Edomites, not Russians.
Esau was a Bible character who displayed a lack of appreciation. For example, although Esau was raised by parents who loved and respected YHWH God, he lacked appreciation for sacred things. (Hebrews 12:16.) This ungrateful attitude became evident when Esau rashly sold his birthright to his younger brother, Jacob, for a mere bowl of stew. (Genesis 25:30-34)
So, Esau despised the birthright, viewing it as of little value, he showed a complete lack of faith.
Unlike his brother, Jacob who was blameless, Esau was fleshly-minded and materialistic. (Genesis 25:27)
At the age of 40, Esau made his own arrangements for marriage. By choice he became a polygamist, and unlike his father Isaac, who had let his father Abraham arrange for a wife from the worshipers of YHWH God, Esau took two pagan Hittite women, Judith and Basemath, as wives. These women proved to be a source of bitterness of spirit to Isaac and Rebekah. (Genesis 26:34, 35; 36:2; 24:1-4, 50, 51.)
So YHWH God loved Jacob because he appreciated sacred things, but hated Esau because Esau didn't appreciate sacred things.
.
Dorothy Mae
Member
Actually, God didn’t hate the man, Esau but loved him and gave him
land for him and his descendants. The prophet wrote that “God hated Esau” was written after the man was long dead. The descendants of Esau were the Edomites and were evil.
land for him and his descendants. The prophet wrote that “God hated Esau” was written after the man was long dead. The descendants of Esau were the Edomites and were evil.
The scriptures show that Esau proved himself unworthy of YHWH God's love by despising his birthright and selling it and hence also the divine promises and blessings attached to the birth right. Esau also tried to kill his brother. (Genesis 25: 32-34; 27:41-43; Hebrews 12:14-16)
Dorothy Mae
Member
The scriptures show God gave Esau land and told the Israelites to l ave them alone because He did so. Since when does God give land to those he hates? God loved Esau. He loves lots of imperfect people.
So you deny Hebrews 12:14-16?
You can believe God didn't hate Esau for despising his parents and despising the birthright and hating Jacob so much he planned to killed his brother, but God hated Esau, because Esau chose to be that kind of person. Everything Jacob did was legit and lawful. Esau despised the birthright so much that he sold it for a bowl of stew, that was a legal transaction, Esau wasn't forced to sale his birthright. Then, not only, was Esau going to let his father bless him with the birthright which no longer belonged to him, but when Jacob simply took what legally belonged to him, Esau wanted to kill his brother, but Jacob was simply taking what legally belonged to him, and Esau knew that. Esau was a selfish, materialistic person who despised spiritual things. Despising spiritual things means Esau despised things which God viewed as being most important. God hated Esau for being that kind of person.
God has allowed people to have land even though, those people, worshipped false Gods. That doesn't mean he loved that person who chose to be that kind of person or that he loves people who choose to be those kind of people.
In the scriptures, it tells people not to be the kind of person Esau was, because God hates those kind of people, especially when those kind of people try to kill, or do kill, the people that God does love. Just because God gave Esau land doesn't mean he loved the kind of person Esau was, God hated the kind of person Esau was, and his descendants, the Edomites were just like Esau.
Dorothy Mae
Member
Where does that say and God hated the man Esau?
Where does it say he hated his parents? Where does scripture God hated that man Esau? Does God hate sinners or does God live the world? John 3:16
Why did he feel guilty?
He despised AFTERWARDS!!
No, if it were legal he wouldn’t have had to PRETEND to be Esau.
Where does it say that?
I see you like to think God hates individuals who sin. He doesn’t but what can anyone say to dissuade you?
I believe that a person despises what God loves and wants for his servants, if they're disobedient to him. It's always been the True God's arrangement, that it's Godly parents responsibility to raise their children in the ways of the true God.(Proverbs 23:22; Colossians 3:20; Ephesians 6:1)So when children are disobedient to their parents they are despising God who gave the parents that responsibility. So this means the children who are disobedient to parents are not only despising God but also despising the parents that the True God has given such responsibility to, so it's that responsibility, that the parents have been given by God, that the children are against when they are disobedient to their parents, and Esau and Jacob had Godly parents.
The scriptures say that training up a child according to the way for him involves more than simply telling the child what is the right way. Parents must teach their children so that he/she actually wants to pursue the proper course that the True God wants us to follow, because of his/her love for the true God so that they too will believe that what the True God views as important, is important to them too.
I understand we're all sinners but that doesn't mean parents don't have the responsibility of raising their children in the way the True God views as being the right course for a child to be brought up.
Esau despised that way of instruction that his parents tried to teach him. They tried to teach Esau that he should love God so much that he would want to love what God loves and view God's way as the proper way a person should live, but Esau just didn't respond to loving God that way. The scriptures show that Esau despised the birthright(Genesis 25:29-34) When you despise the birthright then you're despising what God views as being important.
God didn't want Isaac's and Rebecca's children to marry women that served false Gods. That's why Abraham sent his servant away to his family far from where he was living to search for a wife for his son, because he didn't want his son being married to a woman of the nations in the area he was living because they served false Gods. Because this is how Abraham viewed the women of the nations around him, in which he was living it's also my belief that Isaac didn't want any of his son's marrying women of the nations they were living around, either, because they served false Gods. Yet Esau did Marry women of those nations, and those women were a source of great bitterness to both Isaac and Rebecca.(Genesis 26:34, 35) Also Esau saw because the wives that he had married were displeasing to his father, he deliberately married another woman of the Canaanites other than the Canaanites wives he already had, knowing it would displease his father.(Genesis 28:8,9)
You said, "No, if it were legal he wouldn’t have had to PRETEND to be Esau."
First of all, the firstborn, has the right to sell, his birthright. Was Esau wrong for doing so, yes, but the firstborn does have the right to sell his birthright. So yes, the transaction that happened between Jacob and Esau was a legal transaction. Esau wasn't forced into anything. He had the ability to say no to Jacob when he asked Esau to sell his birthright to him.
I believe you fail to truly see what's going on. Isaac heard what the True God said regarding Esau, and Jacob before they were born. God said the older would serve the younger.This was a prophecy. So Isaac knew the birthright should have been given to Jacob because of that prophecy. But because Isaac loved Esau because Esau was a hunter and Isaac loved the wild venison that Esau made, he ignored the prophecy God had made about the two, and was going to bless Esau with the blessing of the birthright.
Also I've found nowhere in scripture that God spoke out against Rebecca or Jacob for what they did. In fact, after Isaac and Rebecca sent Jacob away, God blessed Jacob. Not even from God in his word does it show that Jacob did anything wrong.
Dorothy Mae
Member
Untrue. Easy to test. Just ask a congregation if they’ve obeyed God everyday in every way this week and then ask the ones who can’t say “yes” if they then despise God.
No it isn’t. James says it’s because they want and don’t have.
Well the True God wants us to love truth and you thinking disobedience doesn’t mean you want something but instead despise, isn’t true. Do you obey God 100% of the time? If not, do you actually despise Him in those moments?
Not pertinent to the discussion.
No evidence for that.
He despised his birthright AFTER he gave it up for food, not before.
Esau wasn’t the best son but he changed. He repented.
Dorothy Mae
Member
Where is that written? Besides my reference was to where Jacob dressed as Jacob and even LIED to his father. Now defend that one if you can.
Where do you get that? That was a prophesy for generations hence.
Lying to his father and deceiving him was wrong. Do you admit that?
Well I was talking about the kind of disobedience of Esau, the kind of person he was. That's who we're discussing. The scriptures show that he wasn't a man who cared about spiritual things. Specifically he didn't care about the promise of YHWH God to Abraham, respecting the seed through whom all nations of the earth would be blessed. He didn't care who the true God thought what kind of woman he should have for a wife, God has never wanted his servants to marry women who worshipped false Gods. Esau didn't care about keeping promises that he makes. Esau would even do things that he knew would displeased his parents just because he knew it would displeased them.
Esau despised spiritual things, which would include the birthright, because the most important things concerning the birthright are the spiritual things connected to it. So Esau despised the birthright before he sold it, the fact that he sold it so easily, for a bowl of stew, is proof of that. If he didn't despise the spiritual things connected to the birthright before he sold it, then why did he so easily sell it for a bowl of stew? If Esau had thought spiritual things were important, he wouldn't have Married women who served false Gods and he never would have even thought about for a second to sale his birthright.
I've found nothing in scripture that show that he repented to God for not caring about spiritual things more. There's nothing in the scriptures that say he was a faithful man to God.
What I see in scripture is that the prophecy made about Esau and Jacob was that it said the older would serve the younger. Well for that to happen the younger would have to have more authority than the older. Whoever is blessed with the birthright, makes that person head of the family when the father dies. So when Jacob was blessed with the birthright he became head of the family when his father died. So he ruled over Esau.
The Edomites, who were the descendants of Esau, Esau being the father of the nation Edom, his descendants had the same attitude as Esau, they had no regard for spiritual things toward the true God. They especially hated Jacob's descendants who were the Israelites.
Edward
2024 Supporter
So, you're saying that Jacob came into the deal with clean hands? That's a good one for the supplanter, lol.
Show me where God spoke out against Jacob or his mother for what they done. I find that after Jacob is given the blessing of birthright and sent to his mother's family God blesses Jacob, God doesn't say anything negative about how it was that he was blessed with the birthright. I find nothing that's said in scripture that speaks out against Jacob. However the scriptures say negative things about Esau, but never about Jacob. The reason why? God saw that deal Esau made with Jacob. He saw that Esau sold his birthright for one lousy bowl of stew. Talking about being disrespectful and being unappreciative of what God views to be important. Jacob loved what God loved, Esau did not.
Dorothy Mae
Member
Do you want to ignore where Jacob lies to his father? You seem to want him to be good and Esau bad. It’s simpler that way. Black hat and white hat.
The descendants were different as you rightly say.
The point is what God says in scripture. Not what imperfect humans think. Nowhere in scripture does it say anything negative about how Jacob got the blessing. He got the blessing that belonged to him in the first place, because Esau sold it to him. Then Esau tried to accept the birthright blessing from his father, when he knew it now belonged to Jacob.
At Hebrews 12:16 God says something negative about Esau. Here God made a negative remark concerning what happened between Jacob and Esau. Where in scripture does God say anything negative about Jacob concerning what happened between Jacob and Esau. I don't see anything.
We break in on the account when the boys were growing up. Both were raised by their father Isaac and their mother Rebekah to know about the promised “seed” that would bless all families of the earth. (Genesis 3:15) Both knew that their grandfather Abraham had been told that the “seed” would come through his line of descent, through Isaac, and that the blessing of God had been on their father Isaac. (Genesis 21:12; 22:15-18; 25:11; 26:24) This was an inheritance of tremendous significance. Isaac was also a materially wealthy man. This wealth the boys would also inherit, the firstborn receiving a double portion. But which boy would qualify to receive the inheritance, particularly the promise of the “seed” through the family line? Esau, the firstborn, stood in the favored position from a human point of view.(Genesis 25:25, 26)
The Bible record reads: “And the boys got bigger, and Esau became a man knowing how to hunt, a man of the field, but Jacob a blameless man, dwelling in tents.”(Genesis 25:27)
So these words shed light on the attitude of the boys. They reveal what was in the heart of each. Esau was a man of hunting prowess. He spent his time out in the field learning the art of the hunter. Jacob, on the other hand, was concerned with the family household. The Hebrew word here rendered “blameless” means “sound,” “innocent,” “complete.” Jacob, though not making a show of his strength or ability as Esau likely did, was nonetheless no weakling, for Jehovah later spoke of him as having “dynamic energy.” (Hosea 12:3) The fact is that Jacob prized the covenant promise to Abraham above everything else and devoted all he had to learning about the promise from his father. He devoted himself to taking care of the interests of this family that God had designated as heirs. He wanted to stay close to those whom God was blessing, although he did look on Esau as the one ahead of him, since Esau was the firstborn.
Later the two boys gave stronger evidence of their attitudes. We read:
“Once Jacob was boiling up some stew, when Esau came along from the field and he was tired. So Esau said to Jacob: ‘Quick, please, give me a swallow of the red, the red there, for I am tired!’ To this Jacob said: ‘Sell me, first of all, your right as firstborn!’ And Esau continued: ‘Here I am simply going to die, and of what benefit to me is a birthright?’ And Jacob added: ‘Swear to me first of all!’ And he proceeded to swear to him and to sell his right as firstborn to Jacob. And Jacob gave Esau bread and lentil stew, and he went to eating and drinking. Then he got up and went his way.”(Genesis 25:29-34)
I know some would probably think Jacob selfish, that he was taking wrongful advantage of Esau, was he? Consider this: Did Esau really appreciate the wonderful things for which his birthright stood? He was not actually near death, as he said. This is shown by his getting up after eating and going his way. The Bible says, “he was tired.” So why was Esau motivated to do what he did? The account tells us: “So Esau despised the birthright.” The apostle Paul corroborated this statement when he called Esau one “not appreciating sacred things, who in exchange for one meal gave away his rights as firstborn.”(Genesis 25:34; Hebrew 12:16)
All this proved God’s judgment right when, foreseeing the characteristics of the boys, he had said to their mother Rebekah before they were born: “The older will serve the younger.”(Genesis 25:23; Romans 9:12)
Jacob possessed the right of firstborn now by two things: by the promise of God, and by right of purchase. But he did not yet have Isaac’s blessing upon the firstborn. Still Jacob evidently was acting unselfishly, because he was not making any moves to get ahead of Esau in this. Undoubtedly he was waiting on YHWH God. Isaac was now blind, and not fully aware of the events occurring. No doubt moved by YHWH God to act, Rebekah, remembering God’s words to her before the boys’ birth, instructed Jacob so as to get the blessing for him.
In what followed, some Bible readers charge Rebekah and Jacob with trickery and dishonesty. But is it so? Who at this point really occupied the position of firstborn by every right? Who cared for the inheritance? Why did Esau withhold from Isaac knowledge of the fact that Jacob had bought the birthright, but instead tried to get the blessing for himself? Isaac, it is true, blessed Jacob, mistakenly thinking he was blessing Esau. But later he recognized that the action of Jacob and Rebekah was right. He saw the hand of YHWH God in the matter, again blessing Jacob, this time knowingly, with a prophecy concerning the “seed.” Then he gave Jacob instructions and sent him away for safety from his angry brother Esau. Additionally, God himself blessed Jacob with the promise that the “seed” would come through his line of descent.(Genesis chap. 27; 28:1-4)