Is Evolution a Religion?

[turnorburn]

platos_cave wrote:I guess you are against Science being taught then, because that is what science puts to the table in education; well-tested and evidentially supported theories.

A theory in science is not the "common" dictionary definition. To equate the two is creating a semantically fallacious dilemma.

What is a semantically fallacious dilemma?

Of course evolution is a religion man made religion is laughable to a fault, round and round and round she goes and where she stops everybody knows. Christianity is as serious as a heart attack, Gods only begotten Son died and rose again to prove it.

turnorburn

 

[platos_cave]

It was saying that we can easily have all the variations in under 4400 years and millions of years is unneeded and absurd.

I've seen Hovind's arguments regarding the Ark, it doesn't even remotely show that all variations could have come about in under 4400 years. Unless you have some evidence that this is so, it's just a mere assertion.

Absurd doesn't mean false; unneeded doesn't mean it didn't happen.

 

[platos_cave]

What I am though, is a theory being taught as a possible fact whereas a historical document such as the bible is received more as fiction. Guess it is really a matter of oppinion and point of view. So I appologize for ruffling any feathers.

I don't understand your problem. Theories explain facts in the best possible way, so a theory is in essence factual. I don't see any textbooks stating unequivocally that Evolution is a fact, so your point doesn't appear to have any relevance.

Public schools can't make judgement calls on religious texts of that sort, it is unconstitutional as far as I'm aware. Any school which states that the bible is fiction is not operating under the strictures of the constitution.

 

[platos_cave]

What is a semantically fallacious dilemma?

Fallacy of equivocation - when the contextual meaning of a word is replaced in a sentence with a different meaning that is out of context in order to render a statement as false.

Of course evolution is a religion man made religion is laughable to a fault, round and round and round she goes and where she stops everybody knows. Christianity is as serious as a heart attack, Gods only begotten Son died and rose again to prove it.

That's nice, good thing reality disagrees with your statements on evolution and a really good thing that your arbitrary whims regarding the nature of scientific theory do not dictate the validity of said theories.

IOW, you haven't got a leg to stand on. If you did, you'd argue factually against evolution.

 

[John]

What I am though, is a theory being taught as a possible fact whereas a historical document such as the bible is received more as fiction. Guess it is really a matter of oppinion and point of view. So I appologize for ruffling any feathers.

I don't understand your problem. Theories explain facts in the best possible way, so a theory is in essence factual. I don't see any textbooks stating unequivocally that Evolution is a fact, so your point doesn't appear to have any relevance.

Public schools can't make judgement calls on religious texts of that sort, it is unconstitutional as far as I'm aware. Any school which states that the bible is fiction is not operating under the strictures of the constitution.

When it comes to evolution theroy the "facts" it based off of is micro evolution, there is simply no conclusive evidence that man shares a common ancestor with apes or that everything we see today came from a simple cell in some ocean billions of years ago. All the evidence we have today says that life does not come from non life you would need that to happen for the ToE to start.

I've seen Hovind's arguments regarding the Ark, it doesn't even remotely show that all variations could have come about in under 4400 years. Unless you have some evidence that this is so, it's just a mere assertion.

Absurd doesn't mean false; unneeded doesn't mean it didn't happen.

What you want a fossil record for the last 44000 years, lol not gonna happen, the only fossil record we have and will ever have was created in the flood and thats not much of a record its more of a scrambled Picasso painting.

My point is that if a chihuahua can be made in realitivly little time then why can't many other animals go under the same changes over 4400 years?

 

[LostSoul]

I don't understand your problem. Theories explain facts in the best possible way, so a theory is in essence factual. I don't see any textbooks stating unequivocally that Evolution is a fact, so your point doesn't appear to have any relevance.

Public schools can't make judgement calls on religious texts of that sort, it is unconstitutional as far as I'm aware. Any school which states that the bible is fiction is not operating under the strictures of the constitution.

I do not expect you to understand or share my point of view. For all I can say is when prayer is not allowed in school and yet the teaching of something that has not been proven factual is, it does not sit well with me as a believer. I came not in here to debate, but rather to talk maturely on the topic. Which unfortunately seems impossible seeing as every time I post I am attacked for having an oppinion. Then....that is to be expected.

With that being said. I will leave this topic as it is and allow others to continue to discuss. For this is a topic I feel cannot be discussed without insult or injury to another in some way.

May God Bless You.

 

[allhart]

I don't understand your problem. Theories explain facts in the best possible way, so a theory is in essence factual. I don't see any textbooks stating unequivocally that Evolution is a fact, so your point doesn't appear to have any relevance.

Public schools can't make judgement calls on religious texts of that sort, it is unconstitutional as far as I'm aware. Any school which states that the bible is fiction is not operating under the strictures of the constitution.

I do not expect you to understand or share my point of view. For all I can say is when prayer is not allowed in school and yet the teaching of something that has not been proven factual is, it does not sit well with me as a believer. I came not in here to debate, but rather to talk maturely on the topic. Which unfortunately seems impossible seeing as every time I post I am attacked for having an oppinion. Then....that is to be expected.

With that being said. I will leave this topic as it is and allow others to continue to discuss. For this is a topic I feel cannot be discussed without insult or injury to another in some way.

May God Bless You.

I didn't come at you wrong. I don't think? Even though your words of (how you don't believe in the Bible) Hurt me to the core. I said putting the Bible aside for now do you believe in intelligent design? Also read Proverbs 2:3-5

 

[John]

I believe in ID. God is intelligent after all.

 

[LostSoul]

I didn't come at you wrong. I don't think? Even though your words of (how you don't believe in the Bible) Hurt me to the core. I said putting the Bible aside for now do you believe in intelligent design? Also read Proverbs 2:3-5

I NEVER once said I did not believe in the Bible. I am a Christian and believer in God and Jesus. My opinion on here again and again has been stated in terms of the Bible being something I feel not to be found favorable in the classroom (much to my own dislike) whereas for some reason evolution is something needing to be taught. If you read my posts you will see that I am merely upset with some of the remarks I have had in terms of my opinions being without relevance. That is all. Which is one of the reasons along with being very much misunderstood and misquoted that I am withdrawing from this conversation. For I feel it is a topic as I have said before, that leads only to anger and hurt feelings.

May God Bless You

 

[John]

I think evolution should be taught but only in truth. for example we have ample evidence of variations occurring in nature but no a shred supporting simple cell to man - that part should be left out of the curriculum. Another thing the school should not be teaching is that dinosaurs are millions of years old, dinosaurs have always walked with man there is evidence to prove it. Lostlamb i know you believe in God and the Bible, but it seems many people wish to deny parts of it because it contradicts mans assumptions and makes you and others embarrassed , God said he make all the animals and man within a week, that would include dinos. :wink:

 

[platos_cave]

I do not expect you to understand or share my point of view. For all I can say is when prayer is not allowed in school and yet the teaching of something that has not been proven factual is, it does not sit well with me as a believer.

Prayer is allowed in schools. Forcing people to pray is not allowed in schools, forcing people to conform to a specific religion in a country which prides itself on freedoms such as religion is contradictory.

Evolution is factual, you would see that if you cared to learn about it.

I came not in here to debate, but rather to talk maturely on the topic. Which unfortunately seems impossible seeing as every time I post I am attacked for having an oppinion. Then....that is to be expected.

Having your opinion being criticized is not being attacked. If your opinion doesn't hold much weight in the eyes of other viewers then expect to be called upon it. That's what this discussion forum is for, is it not?

 

[platos_cave]

I think evolution should be taught but only in truth. for example we have ample evidence of variations occurring in nature but no a shred supporting simple cell to man - that part should be left out of the curriculum.

Show me any curriculum which states that man evolved from simple cells.

Another thing the school should not be teaching is that dinosaurs are millions of years old, dinosaurs have always walked with man there is evidence to prove it.

No there isn't.

 

[LostSoul]

[Prayer is allowed in schools. Forcing people to pray is not allowed in schools, forcing people to conform to a specific religion in a country which prides itself on freedoms such as religion is contradictory.

Evolution is factual, you would see that if you cared to learn about it.

I came not in here to debate, but rather to talk maturely on the topic. Which unfortunately seems impossible seeing as every time I post I am attacked for having an oppinion. Then....that is to be expected.

Having your opinion being criticized is not being attacked. If your opinion doesn't hold much weight in the eyes of other viewers then expect to be called upon it. That's what this discussion forum is for, is it not?

I know enough about evolution to know that though my DNA may be close in numbers to that of a banana that I did not evolve from it. Same with a monkey. I am a creation of GOD made in His image. Whether or not you share that view, is fine. I just do not like being talked to as though I am wrong because I do not think or believe as you do.

For that is where I think there is a rather thin line in terms of debate or discussion. Yes, prayer fortunately is not a forced matter. It should never be.

Please think for a moment though, if I were to approach you as you are me and talked to you as you are me about my views, would you not feel perhaps as though I were trying to force my beliefs upon you?

With that being said I am no longer replying to this thread. It is already way of out hand.

 

[platos_cave]

I know enough about evolution to know that though my DNA may be close in numbers to that of a banana that I did not evolve from it. Same with a monkey.

Apparently you don't really know much about Evolution because at no point would it even indicate that YOU evolved from a banana or a monkey.

I am a creation of GOD made in His image. Whether or not you share that view, is fine. I just do not like being talked to as though I am wrong because I do not think or believe as you do.

I don't care if you believe you are 30 trillion years old and infected with thetans. If you make statements that are wrong as they pertain to Evolutionary theory then you are going to be criticized on those false statements.

What you believe is irrelevant to me; it's whether or not you make accurate statements about science and the body of knowledge surrounding any specific scientific endeavor that is the issue.

Yes, prayer fortunately is not a forced matter. It should never be.

Then we agree on this. I have no issue with people of personal faith wish to pray in school as long as it does not disrupt the learning environment of other students.

Please think for a moment though, if I were to approach you as you are me and talked to you as you are me about my views, would you not feel perhaps as though I were trying to force my beliefs upon you?

Where have I forced anything on you?

 

[Rick W]

This thread is looking more and more like a candidate for the science forum. If it keeps going as is it may be best to move it there where it'll fit better.

 

[John]

This thread is looking more and more like a candidate for the science forum. If it keeps going as is it may be best to move it there where it'll fit better.

Then it will just be me and platos_cave, lol

 

[Rick W]

As if it isn't already? :
How many posts actually addressed the topic?
There's a reason why the science forum has specific terms that require agreement for those participating. The last few pages of this discussion have not addressed the topic but have succeeded in circumventing the purpose of the science forum. The focus has been moved to the standard debates of evolution without regard to the topic.
If those few others wish to join the science forum then all they need to do is make the request through a PM and agree to the terms. Simple.

 

[platos_cave]

As if it isn't already? :
How many posts actually addressed the topic?
There's a reason why the science forum has specific terms that require agreement for those participating. The last few pages of this discussion have not addressed the topic but have succeeded in circumventing the purpose of the science forum. The focus has been moved to the standard debates of evolution without regard to the topic.
If those few others wish to join the science forum then all they need to do is make the request through a PM and agree to the terms. Simple.

I am allowed in the Science Forum, Rick. I have no problem with the topic being moved, and I wondered why a topic about Evolution was proposed in a non-science forum when clearly John also has participated in the Science forum as well.

I addressed the topic, and it went off on a tangent. Fact is, the OP proposed a definition of Evolution which was entirely unrelated to any scientific definition and essentially a strawman.

It presented false statements regarding Evolutionary theory and I rebutted those.

 

[John]

Yeah might as well move it Rick.