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Is God a Murderer?

"We MUST be able to dismantle such attacks on our Creator with logic and scripture."

O.K. then. SINCE God DOES kill, and sometimes in the Old Testament he ordered his own people to perform the butchery, how are you going to "Dismantle" Dawkins impassioned list of invectives with "Logic" and "Scripture"????
 
Re: Is God Evil?

Bob Carabbio said:
"We MUST be able to dismantle such attacks on our Creator with logic and scripture."

O.K. then. SINCE God DOES kill, and sometimes in the Old Testament he ordered his own people to perform the butchery, how are you going to "Dismantle" Dawkins impassioned list of invectives with "Logic" and "Scripture"????
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Truth need not hide or run from logic, for when the entirety of truth becomes evident, truth and logic can become one and the same. So in light of this I ask this question again; Is God evil? My answer is a resounding NO, and here's why.

Consider what our basis is for judging God. I contend that our only basis for judging Him is only one fold and that is this; does He do what He says he will do? That's it! Apart from His faithfulness to His words, we have no basis for judging God. We cannot use the standards we'd use for our peers (other humans) because the creater is peerless and has full authority and control of our present and future in HIS hands. The fact that HE designed us and our habitation must also be considered as well as the need to give thought to why HE created us and our habitation in the 1st place. With those things being said and us realizing that we are HIS creations and made for HIS purposes so that HIS will will be accomplished we must realize that we have no basis to judge our creator as HIS creations other than making our judgments based on whether or not the Creator does to us and with us what HE said HE would do. If HE has never communicated with us, then we have no basis, but if HE has, then all we can hold against HIM are HIS words. If HE does not keep HIS word, then and only then can we say with any degree of accuracy that THE GOD is not a good god.

But I can hear the objection then arise; How can God have millions killed, HE's a genocidal malevalent ego-tripin' freak! Get that emotional nonlogical reaction out, then think. First off, since we all die anyway (big shocker huh), in the ultimate scheme of things as it relates to GOD; does it really matter how we die or how many of us die at once? Would it have been better for an eternal GOD if the "kites and tites" who were killed had just died of old age? What people seem to miss with GOD is that unlike any PTB, HE's the ancient of days, from everlasting to everlasing, the sole being that has immortality, and all souls are HIS! HE placed us in this habitation we call reality and HE can take us out when HE chooses. We DO NOT exist apart from HIS will! That's the message that needs to be fully comprehended first.
 
God's Judgments

According to the books (aka The Bible), Yah is THE GOD, the Ancient of Days, and Creator and sustainer of all. He has no peer, nothing can be given to Him, nor can anything transpire that He does not allow. He is said to be a spirit, which means breath or unseen force that owns ALL SOULS. So in summary, according to scripture, He is the creator and owner of existence, He started time (for our reality) in what has been termed "the beginning" when He created our universe (the heavens and the Earth), and He is 'above' this plane of existence and not subject to or bound by its laws.

He is said to have created MAN within the created realm after His image and likeness to be a sort of god, if you will on the Earth. Initially MAN was given dominion, no law, and only 1 prohibition. If man were to break that prohibition, man's sentence would be death. Man broke the prohibition and was subsequently removed from paradise, separated from God, and was subjected to the evils that could arise in the new world.

Time went by and man became more and more intrigued by and enthralled in the practice of evils to the point where God decided to destroy what He had created because of the evils that had overrun HIS creation and that led to the ancient flood, which was the 1st judgment of God on His Earthly creation which spared only the righteous in HIS eyes.
Let's notice some vital points.
- God created man guilt free and without a law
- man decided to become like God and gain knowledge of good and evil
- man delved deeper and deeper into the practice of evil that it is said that 'every thought of his heart was continually evil always
- because of this dedication to evil, man was judged and sentenced.
- the righteous was spared

So the flood subsides, righteous man is told to fill the Earth, but in time man again turns his heart to evil and the righteous become a minority. Rather than executing a similar judgment again, God keeps His promise not to and begins 'calling' the righteous out, which brings us to Abram and His descendants with whom God made a covenant to bless and sustain provided they remained righteous. In addition He promised to use them (their seed) to bless the entire world.
God has as He did with Noah, called out the righteous and left those who would practice evil continually to their own devices, only this time, no judgment is brought upon them collectively. That brings us to Sodom and Gomorrah, a place of evil that God calls righteous Lot out of before bringing a fiery judgment upon it because of sin.
Now we skip ahead to Israel, the covenant people who were made up of Abram's descendants as well as any others who wished to inherit the promised land and be a part of the covenant. We are given numerous examples of judgments brought down by God on the wicked through Israel on nations who new not God and within Israel for breaking the covenant. Throughout history, God's judgments were NEVER brought upon the righteous and all who like Ruth, Rehab, and others wished to be righteous and have a covenant relationship with God could be a part of Israel.
This one theme rung true throughout history. Sin would lead to death and judgment, God would call out the righteous from the sinful to be spared, and the righteous would be blessed.

I could continue, but hopefully some things are obvious with what has been written. Here are some of them.
- this world was created to exist temporarily for a purpose determined beforehand by its creator.
- man's own choices brought the effects of evil into this world
- evil effects the practitioner as well as those connected to the practitioners
- God will eventually judges the practice of evil
- God preserves the righteous for life and a relationship with Him
 
How are your posts supposed to show this god as "not being evil"? Just because he has a lot of power, and created everyone, he cannot be evil? And because "everyone dies anyway", and because "he created them", he has the right to be called righteous when multitudes are killed in one epic event? And he will reward those who follow his ways to the utmost and not questioning . . . can that, in no way, ever be evil?

I believe that we think on two different wavelengths here.
 
When a shepherd killed a wolf for his sheep. Is he a murderer? The sheep will say no, no matter what the wolves will say.

Moreover, murderer is an accusation in terms of law. So by what law you name the shepherd a murderer? The wolves' law, the wolves however don't have such a law. On the other hand, everyone is in the shepherd's backyard to obey his law, so in accordance to his law, the shepherd is not a murderer.
 
Deavonreye said:
Again, it isn't a matter of what is right or wrong, . . . but who has all the power.
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D,

You are spot on with the issue being the position that God holds as it relates to His creations. God is the creator and sustainer as well as the judge, jury, and executioner all in one. It's not that God has some power, He has all power and is therefore peerless. So Him killing one of us is not the same as one of us killing our fellow man as we have NO AUTHORITY over the lives of man, God does. That means that HE alone has the R-I-G-H-T to decide who lives or dies and in acting upon that right He can choose life or death. Neither choice would be either right or wrong, just authorized.

Let's focus on this. What makes killing wrong?
Is it WRONG for God to kill men or order men to be killed?
 
TRUTH over TRADITION said:
D,

You are spot on with the issue being the position that God holds as it relates to His creations. God is the creator and sustainer as well as the judge, jury, and executioner all in one. It's not that God has some power, He has all power and is therefore peerless. So Him killing one of us is not the same as one of us killing our fellow man as we have NO AUTHORITY over the lives of man, God does. That means that HE alone has the R-I-G-H-T to decide who lives or dies and in acting upon that right He can choose life or death. Neither choice would be either right or wrong, just authorized.

Let's focus on this. What makes killing wrong?
Is it WRONG for God to kill men or order men to be killed?
Click to expand...

I cannot continue this conversation as my opinion would be against the sites ToS.
 
Drew said:
I appreciate the case you are trying to make, but I think there are real problems with it. You seem to be arguing that if agent "A" creates something "B", then A has the right to do whatever s/he wants with B. That has a certain common-sense appeal, but I think it really does not work.

Imagine your child has the skill to create feeling life-forms. And imagine that he then slaughthers them mercilessly. I suspect most parents would vigourously discipline such a child, believing that the "power to create" does not give the child the "right" to then inflict pain and suffering on that which s/he has created.

Here is my take on all the Old Testament genocides ordered by God: God had no choice but to order these genocides in order to implement His grand plan of redemption.

If this sounds a little strange, think of the cancer doctor who uses chemotherapy. Does the doctor use chemotherapy because s/he enjoys inflicting suffering? Of course not - this unpleasant treatment is used because it is the best that the doctor can do in the interest of the ultimate welfare of the child. I suggest something similar is going on in the Old Testament with all these acts of "murder".

I can explain more, if there is any interest.
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'Only God has the right to decide whos to live and die'

Tommy James and the Shondells ,1968.


Even Tommy knew God always has choice.
 
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There are just as many saved lives as there are deaths from God. Just look at today, there are multiple servants of him who are not only healing and bringing to Christ, but raising people from the dead. I wouldn't say he is a murderer, judges kill murders and other sinners all the time, and that's part of what God is, a Judge
 
God is not a murderer. Unless you are defining murder as simply the act of killing or the order to kill. To murder is to take the life of a person who did not deserve to die or an innocent person. We are not innocent and all deserve death. We have all been judged and found wanting. The bible tells us the wages of sin is death. Thus we all deserve death. Since God is a righteous and holy judge He has the real authority to order life and death. In him is light and no darkness at all. Shall the creation judge the creator? Only one who has no understanding of God would call him a murderer. To ask the question is not wrong. To search out the truth is not wrong. But we dare not claim moral authority over God and his decisions and make claim that he is something other than he claims to be is the height of foolishness. God is a judge. And as a judge he has full right to give righteous judgement for all his judgements are right and true.
 
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