Is God frowning at you?

[Wrg1405]

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[Jethro Bodine]

All parents who never frowned at your kids raise your hands.

Now, all parents who frowned at your kids because you hate and despise them, raise your hands.

 

[Wrg1405]

Now, all parents who frowned at your kids because you hate and despise them, raise your hands.

Really?? Can you just clarify for me please.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Really?? Can you just clarify for me please.

Even loving parents frown on their kids when they behave badly. It's not a bad thing so as to make it so that God can not ever possibly be frowning on us, his children. Frowning on your children does not mean you hate them as the meme seems to be suggesting would be true.

When God looks at us and can only see Jesus that is in regard to our legal standing with God. That hardly means he can't and won't see things that we do and think that would cause him to frown on us.

 

[Wrg1405]

When God looks at us and can only see Jesus that is in regard to our legal standing with God.

That makes it sound like that God only did what he did because he had to. Our legal standing with God is justification by faith, a state where we have been freed from the penalty of guilt and sin on the basis of what Christ did.

Jesus himself prayed that we would know that God loves us as much as he loves him. Yes we grieve God when we get it wrong but he does not look at us and say "tut tut you got it wrong, look at my frowning at you I suppose legally I have to forgive you" I think he says "You got it wrong, let's talk about it FYI I still love you as much as I love Jesus"

I suppose it comes down to the experience of being frowned upon. My experience was a frowning face followed by a beating, physical and emotional. So when I saw that face I knew what was coming and I was full of fear.

God does not frown on us like that and that's the point I want to make.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

God does not frown on us like that and that's the point I want to make.

But you do seem to agree that God does indeed frown on us. Just not in the manner and meaning as some earthly parents do that, right? Maybe the distinction you want to make between God and mere human parents is best explained here:

"we had earthly fathers to discipline us...they disciplined us for a short time as seemed best to them, but He disciplines us for our good, so that we may share His holiness." (Hebrews 12:9-10 NASB italics in original)

God not only frowns on us, but he will send a 'time out' or a paddling of sorts when necessary. We can just take comfort that it is not done for the selfish misguided reasons our earthly fathers discipline/ punished us, but for eternal purposes.

I'm not going to pretend how sensitive of a subject this must be for you. I was not beat by my parents, so I can only empathize with how difficult this must be for you. But take heart from the encouragement above that God is entirely loving and concerned about our eternal and temporal welfare when it comes to applying the proverbial 'board of education' to our rear end. He's not doing it because we're interrupting his TV time, or his afternoon nap with our misbehavior. He's doing it so we can enter into his peace and joy, today and forever more.

 

[Wrg1405]

Discuss more tomorrow. God bless you my brother

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Discuss more tomorrow. God bless you my brother

And may God bless you, my beloved brother.

 

[for_his_glory]

I believe we disappoint God in many ways when we are not obedient to Him. He is not going to hit us upside the head when we do, but in His unconditional love will wait patiently for us to say we are sorry for our disobedience as we turn back to His grace as His grace loves us and His mercy pardons us.

 

[Wrg1405]

Frowning on your children does not mean you hate them as the meme seems to be suggesting would be true.

I think that is what I am trying to get across. I'm sure there are many like me who experienced a frown with a beating that followed (and still carry that around) and I know God is not like that.

The meme helped me realise that. Yes I know God doesn't like it when I get it wrong. Correct me if I'm wrong but it is as a result of the consequences to myself and those I have hurt/damaged in the process. Temporal consequences.

I will add though that my relationship with my mum has been fully restored

 

[Corn Pop]

I think the Most High is a bit angry with me, but its understandable.

 

[for_his_glory]

I think the Most High is a bit angry with me, but its understandable.

He is not angry as God is very patient with all of us and His love will never waver.

2Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

[Wrg1405]

He is not angry as God is very patient with all of us and His love will never waver.

2Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

I really cannot understand why some and I include myself feel that God gets angry with them, every time when we get it wrong God is wagging his finger, shaking his head, saying time for the punishment to be administered.

My understanding is that Jesus took the anger, the wrath of God upon himself for our sins. The cup of wrath that he did not want drink from.

To me, if we live in fear of getting it wrong we can move from grace to law. Jesus himself said that he wanted us to know that God loves us as much as he loves Jesus.

I think when we get it wrong God says, "OK come let us reason together, your sins are scarlet but they shall be white as snow"

I love you, I'm not angry with you, I understand but be sure I love you so much I died for you.

 

[Corn Pop]

Oh I believe he is patient and forgiving, but hes still a bit angry with me because sometimes I don't listen to him.

 

[Wrg1405]

Oh I believe he is patient and forgiving, but hes still a bit angry with me because sometimes I don't listen to him.

What's your concept of angry?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I really cannot understand why some and I include myself feel that God gets angry with them, every time when we get it wrong God is wagging his finger, shaking his head, saying time for the punishment to be administered.

What you are talking about is God shaming us. He does not do that. When we do wrong we come under God's conviction through the Holy Spirit and we may feel ashamed for our offenses, but that is not God shaming us. You can be ashamed of what you've done without being shamed by someone. Shaming is a form of emotional abuse used by people to manipulate a person into behaving the way they want you to for their benefit, not yours. They withhold their love and affections until you satisfy their selfish agenda. Now that kind of abuse I'm familiar with. And being familiar with that I know that God does not do that.

I have never sensed shame and rejection from God when I've sinned. God has always been there for me with open arms in my failures, but that hardly means he does nothing when I sin. I have his assurance that, as a son whom he loves, he will be careful to discipline and punish me as is appropriate to the situation and the extent of my sin. In fact, it's because we are beloved sons that he will do that. If a person is humble and contrite God's corrective word to our hearts is enough to bring us to confession and repentance. It's when we persist in our sin and ignore his loving correction that God may have to amp it up in order to get our attention. But still, this is all in the hope of bringing us to repentance for our good, not to serve his selfish good.

My understanding is that Jesus took the anger, the wrath of God upon himself for our sins. The cup of wrath that he did not want drink from.

This is the widespread 'hyper-grace' theology presently working it's way through the Protestant church. It sounds good, and it certainly tickles the ears, but grace simply is NOT a license to sin with impunity. This theology does not square with Paul's warning to the church:

"6Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved. 7Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written, “THE PEOPLE SAT DOWN TO EAT AND DRINK, AND STOOD UP TO PLAY.” 8Nor let us act immorally, as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day.9Nor let us try the Lord, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the serpents. 10Nor grumble, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the destroyer. 11Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come." (1 Corinthians 10:6-11 NASB CAPITALS IN ORIGINAL)

To me, if we live in fear of getting it wrong we can move from grace to law.

Actually, the reverse is more true. It's certainly possible that the threat of God's punishment could drive a person into a works kind of relationship with God, but when we can see his love and concern for us in his punishment, and can see that is the reason why he's punishing us, we can then begin to relate to him according to his grace and not according to the way of his wrath and the punishment of law.

 

[Wrg1405]

This is the widespread 'hyper-grace' theology presently working it's way through the Protestant church. It sounds good, and it certainly tickles the ears, but grace simply is NOT a license to sin with impunity. This theology does not square with Paul's warning to the church:

So are you saying that Jesus did not take the wrath of God upon himself in our place?

Why do you think that the hyper-theology presents the message that grace is a license to sin? I can't say that I have seen it.

FYI, it's not something that I use grace for. I take my sin very seriously and to be honest it devastates me.

So I just want to add that if in any of my posts on this forum if I have given the opinion that grace is a license to sin that was not my intention and if so please accept my apologies.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

God doesn't like it when I get it wrong. Correct me if I'm wrong but it is as a result of the consequences to myself and those I have hurt/damaged in the process. Temporal consequences.

I think natural consequence is a big part of it and that he uses those as the punishment, but if that's all God's punishment is then that means there really is no difference between God's discipline/punishment for his children and those who are not his children, but the Bible says there is:

"what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons." (Hebrews 12:7-8 NASB)

Do you see what I'm saying? What you believe about punishment simply being the natural consequences of doing wrong makes no distinction between the sons of God and the world. But the Bible shows us that the punishment/discipline of God is a purposeful thing that he does specifically for his children, and not for those who are not his children, suggesting that his punishment is not just the natural consequences of bad behavior.

 

[GodsGrace]

All parents who never frowned at your kids raise your hands.

Now, all parents who frowned at your kids because you hate and despise them, raise your hands.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So I just want to add that if in any of my posts on this forum if I have given the opinion that grace is a license to sin that was not my intention and if so please accept my apologies.

No, you don't need to apologize.
What I've noticed is that people simply do not realize that when they embrace the hyper-grace doctrines they are actually making grace a license to sin. I do not believe that you are purposely making grace a license to sin with impunity. I think you just don't realize it does.

So are you saying that Jesus did not take the wrath of God upon himself in our place?

Not for a second. A believer will never die the second death for his sin.
But that does not negate the clear Biblical warnings that he will be punished for his sin to whatever extent any one situation requires. And not so we will be condemned, but so we can be healed.