Is God Omniscient?

[Shana]

Do you believe that God is omniscient, seeing beginning to end? Why are why not? Many scriptures and prophecies tell me that He is, but many seem to disagree. What do you believe? Please no personal attacks or accusations. Thanks and God bless.

 

[Cross_+_Flame]

I believe God knows all possibilities, but God does not know which possibilities we will choose as humans with free will. God's knowledge does not have to have causal power for God to be omniscient.

 

[Shana]

Thank you for sharing, Cross + Flame. God bless.

 

[Drew]

This is a great question and a toughie as well. I would say that there is not a "tidy" answer that allows for both human free will and God's omniscience (specifically in respect to the future).

Let's say that God knows whether I will watch an episode of Seinfeld after my dinner on 2 April 2010. To me, this means that the course of my life and the course of that of the Fox television network are set on an irrevocable path - Fox must broadcast Seinfeld on the date in question (they cannot choose to drop the show) and I must have my posterior planted in a chair in front of a television set on that night 5 years from now. I cannot choose to be camping in the woods - this would make it impossible for my actions to be true to God's advance knowledge. So do I (or the Fox network) have freedom to choose? It seems that our freedom is indeed limited if God's knowledge is to be proven correct.

And now for the usual objection: God is "outside of time" and views the timeline of the world "all at once". He can therefore know what will happen and yet not in any way cause it to be so. So freedom of choice is preserved. This refutation has its appeal. However, in the end it cannot be as simple as this.

I think that logical consistency requires that I watch Seinfeld, whether or not one can tell a tale that seems to preserve God's foreknowledge and my free will (as per the above para).

God exists. If He knows the future, how can it not be the case that in God's mind an item of information exists indicating that I will indeed watch Seinfeld on 2 April 2005? This is so, whether or not God is "outside of time". Whether or not God is outside of time, the fact remains that this event must occur. I, on the other hand, am stuck in the flow of time. So my path must inevitably and irresistably be forced down a road that will culminate in my watching of Seinfeld.

I know that aome people will say that there are no logical problems in the "God is outside of time and can know the future without causing it" argument. And, in a way, I agree with them.

But we need to give equal credence to the "logical consistency" argument I have outlined. So, in the end, I think that we are probably incapable of articulating an explanation with the conceptual tools at our disposal. Perhaps this is an unsolvable mystery.

But whatever the truth is, it is almost certainly not as simple as people often make it out to be.

So my answer = "I do not know"

 

[Shana]

Thanks for sharing, Drew. God bless.

 

[reznwerks]

#

This is a great question and a toughie as well. I would say that there is not a "tidy" answer that allows for both human free will and God's omniscience (specifically in respect to the future).

quote]
Exactly right. If God knows the answer to the future then prayer is futile since the outcome is already known. This would then cause a problem of being all powerful since God would be captive to the events he cannot change. It's a catch 22 with no escape.

 

[Shana]

Hi reznwerks. I don't know that I agree, reznwerks. What if the experience of prayer has more to do with our growth and development? I think about it like this. A military leader or a teacher might know which situations to create in order for the students to learn or gain from the experience. The teacher may know all of the outcomes to be desired (but for God, it would be more that what is desired, but what is to occur), and designs the situations for this to happen. God would still be all powerful in that in His mysterious and sovereign ways, He would Himself have designed the events or elements, to happen. What do you think? I know that like Paul tells us, we cannot fathom the ways of God, but just thinking out loud. Thanks for all responses.

God bless.

 

[reznwerks]

outcomes

Hi reznwerks. I don't know that I agree, reznwerks. What if the experience of prayer has more to do with our growth and development? I think about it like this. A military leader or a teacher might know which situations to create in order for the students to learn or gain from the experience. The teacher may know all of the outcomes to be desired (but for God, it would be more that what is desired, but what is to occur), and designs the situations for this to happen. God would still be all powerful in that in His mysterious and sovereign ways, He would Himself have designed the events or elements, to happen. What do you think? I know that like Paul tells us, we cannot fathom the ways of God, but just thinking out loud. Thanks for all responses.

God bless.

The teacher may know all the possible outcomes but only one outcome is possible. The difference here is that God supposedly knows the final outcome and hence is either powerless to prevent it or doesn't really know the final outcome. It's still a catch 22.

 

[Shana]

I am not following you here, reznwerks. What do you mean? How could God be powerless to prevent it or how would He not know what it would be, if He designed the outcome? Thanks and God bless.

 

[cj]

Re: #

If God knows the answer to the future then prayer is futile since the outcome is already known.

Actually, scripture tells us that God has answered our prayers before we pray them.

This would then cause a problem of being all powerful since God would be captive to the events he cannot change. It's a catch 22 with no escape.[/b]

God is not "captive" to anything.... other than His wisdom, knowledge, understanding, righteousness, faithfulness, authority, power, etc, etc, etc...

God knows the future quite well.... since He is it.


Sometimes we run into problems because we try to view spiritual things through human virtues.

In love,
cj

 

[cj]

God has a perfect will and an permissive will.

Yet, all things work for His one economy. Which, if not understood (His economy), leads to confusion regarding God's relationship with men.


In love,
cj

 

[Heidi]

Since God already knows our needs, prayer is for ourselves to create a closer relationship with God, create unity with other believers, and to fill our hearts with love for our neighbor.

 

[cj]

Well, maybe there's something more Heidi.....

Prayer is a testimony of God's will, spoken through men on this earth.


In love,
cj

 

[aiki]

Yeah, what cj said!

In Christ, Aiki.

 

[Cross_+_Flame]

Prayer is a testimony of God's will, spoken through men on this earth.

I'm not sure I'd want to give it *that* much credence. If I pray for the death of my neighbor, I'm not sure I'd want to offer that up as a testimony of God working in my life.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you; please elaborate :

 

[Featherbop]

My stance on this is that God knows all possible outcomes and possibilitys of everything. This includes what it is that we choose. We have free will(free will=the ability to make one's own choices and have one's own will.....for instance, I can choose whether or not to make this post, and whether or not I want to make this post.)

Now, if humans lack free will, we can automatically knock out the idea of a God that does not compel love. One can still claim God is love, but this is a different, "meaner" kind of love.

Now, many people struggle with the concept of Omniscient God with humans having free will as previously defined. I do not. Simply, God is 'outside of time', seeing past, present and future(or having full knowledge of the three). This only means that God has seen our 'free will' in the end(and everywhere else.) God didn't make our choices, He just saw(sees) it.

To give an example of why having knowledge of the future does not negate free will:

5 minutes from now, Bob will eat an apple. I see Bob eat an apple 5 minutes from now. I now have knowledge of the future of 5 minutes before Bob ate the apple. Bob still had free will to eat the apple.

 

[cubedbee]

5 minutes from now, Bob will eat an apple. I see Bob eat an apple 5 minutes from now. I now have knowledge of the future of 5 minutes before Bob ate the apple. Bob still had free will to eat the apple.

Yes, but Bob exists independently of you, which is why he has free will. If Bob was a robot that you built yourself, and you built him having full knowledge of the future, then it is you that choose for Bob to eat that apple.

 

[Heidi]

But if you give Bob a chance to eat an apple or an orange and you tell him the apple will make him sick but he doesn't believe you, which one do you think he will pick? All robots will pick the one that is most pleasing to them until they see that you were right after all. And many will continue eating the apple if the taste is more pleasing than the ill affects - even if the ill affects kill them. To them, nothing compares to the taste!

 

[Cross_+_Flame]

5 minutes from now, Bob will eat an apple. I see Bob eat an apple 5 minutes from now. I now have knowledge of the future of 5 minutes before Bob ate the apple. Bob still had free will to eat the apple.

Yes, but Bob exists independently of you, which is why he has free will. If Bob was a robot that you built yourself, and you built him having full knowledge of the future, then it is you that choose for Bob to eat that apple.

oooOOOooo...Good point My response would be that if God knows all possibilities, then God is on the other end of the spectrum beckoning us to choose the best choice, rather than creating us as predestined towards decisions.

 

[Heidi]

The bible makes it clear that God has predestined us. But the most important point is that none of us knows if we are called. Therefore, we are completely and totally responsible for our decisions. ;-)