Is God the most legalistic of all?

[torulethenight]

The orthodox doctrine of the atonement portrays God as being entirely unable to forgive sins, unless He is paid in blood to do it. This is a contradiction in terms however, since a debt can only be forgiven if it is not paid. Regardless of who pays for a debt, if the debt does get paid, then it can no longer be "forgiven".

The reasoning for the orthodox theory of the atonement is based on God's "justice" (justice, that is, in the Latin sense of legal justice). The theory goes, that God demands that human beings render perfect obedience to the Mosaic Law in order to be declared "righteous". Jesus' obedience (i.e. "perfect" obedience) to the Mosaic Law and subsequent death is viewed to be the "payment" required in order for God to be "just" (by demanding perfect adherence to the Mosaic Law), while also being able to extend "mercy" (because the demands of "justice" had been met by Jesus) to sinners.

But does this not make God the ultimate legalist? A God Who is not only unwilling, but also entirely unable to forgive "freely"? Is God's love subservient to God's law? How can this be?

 

[Deavonreye]

These were some of the questions I pondered as I was making my way out of my long held christian upbringing. As I gave it extended thought, the ideologies I firmly believed [because I was taught to believe them AND in the way the preacher/Sunday school teacher was presenting them] began to fall apart.

As for the answer, I would have to say that god, as depicted in the bible [that is] is quite legalistic.

Interesting phrase, "a debt can only be forgiven if it is not paid", BTW.

 

[Mike]

Here are my thoughts. You've mixed two things into your OP: Love and forgive. We are all loved by God Who created us and desires that we turn to Him. Scripture cites this love for His creation throughout it. But your main point is forgiveness of sins. Ultimately, God is perfectly Good. It is beyond our understanding of what it would be like to be face-to-face with perfect Goodness. His Kingdom will not allow for sin to obscure this perfection. Imperfection cannot live in and with perfection. One must change, and God doesn't change. Sacrifices were established to atone for those sins, and the ultimate sacrifice was paid for by Christ.

I would say there is nothing legalistic in needing to acknowledge the sacrifice that He provided to cover our sins. In acknowledging our sinful nature and the redemptive blood of the Lamb, our sins are blotted out, and we are told we will be covered by Christ's Righteousness. We are made clean and will be able to stand and live for eternity in the presence of perfect righteousness.

Romans 2
" 5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will give to each person according to what he has done.†7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism."

 

[Oats]

wow!

legalistic?


God is the essense of the law

and he acts as such

case closed


Futhermore God has fulfiled the law and followed every bit of it

because he is righteous he cant be legalistic

a donde a deekee

wow!

 

[torulethenight]

Thanks for your feedback to my post Deavonreye,

I have come to the conclusion that it is orthodox Christianity's interpretation of the Bible, rather than the Bible itself, which portrays God as "legalistic". The flaw in the orthodox view of the atonement stems from the idea of the word "justice". In sermons across America and elsewhere, a common analogy is to view God as the "Judge", and Jesus as the "Attorney" in a case against sinful humanity (the "criminals", as it were, charged under the Law). This modern day construct though, is built on legal terms that are foreign to the New Testament text. Forgiveness, again, can only be given freely. If "forgiveness" needs to be paid for, then genuine forgiveness cannot occur.

The idea that God cannot forgive sins due to His need for "justice" to be satisfied beforehand, promotes a no-win situation for humanity. After all, if God is only willing and able to "forgive" because He's been paid in blood to do it, then the human heart can only suffer under a weight of guilt because it must realize that "righteousness", that is, the real thing, is actually all about law-keeping in God's sight.

The cross, then, becomes the "legal loophole" that God drives into His thoroghly legal requirement for "perfection" (where perfection is understood as perfectly obeying the Mosaic Law). But that is the very essence of legalism.

This legalistic paradigm of God's "justice" overlooks God's kindness toward humanity in that it was God's plan all along to freely forgive us of our sins and bless us with the hope of life in the age to come. Jesus' death on the cross did not initiate some kind of change in God, allowing God to forgive where otherwise He could not. No. Jesus' death on the cross initiates a change in us, allowing us to understand that God has freely forgiven our sins and proven it by raising Jesus from the dead.

After all, it was not God that needed to be reconciled to us. On the contrary;
" . . . God was (in Christ) reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them." (cf. 2 Cor. 5:19)

(I'd write more, but I have to go to bed and get enough sleep before work tomorrow. I'll check back and look forward to further dialogue.)

 

[elijah23]

But does this not make God the ultimate legalist? A God Who is not only unwilling, but also entirely unable to forgive "freely"? Is God's love subservient to God's law? How can this be?

The Lord is not legalistic at all. He knows that certain actions on our part will make our lives miserable, so he has commanded us not to take those actions.

 

[theLords]

How can God be legalistic? God is not self-righteous.

 

[Deavonreye]

Is he not? I'm curious whether that's true.

As for being legalistic, he created rules that he apparently can't or won't break, even though they're HIS rules. Seems pretty legalistic to me.

 

[theLords]

Watch the (boderline) insults there friend. Your opinion is always welcome, but insults towards our precious God is not.

 

[Deavonreye]

I mean no disrespect, . . . . just trying to see how his works wouldn't be considered "legalistic".

Definition: strict adherence, or the principle of strict adherence, to law or prescription, especially to the letter rather than the spirit.