Is it important to keep the Sabbath?

[Hopeful 2]

Not me. I've lived such a sinful life I can't judge anyone for the way they live theirs. It's scripture that judges you.

Hebrews 4: 12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
I've always had more friends outside the Adventist church than inside of it. I have been judged very severely by a lot of Adventists. They have cost me more than one job by their wagging tongues. I see glimmers of hope for us though. In 1888 the church rejected righteousness by faith which means it's God's work to clean us up. It's impossible to do it on our own as we are sinful at the level of our DNA. We inherited it from Adam and Eve.

It is personally knowing God that saves us.

John 17: 1 THESE words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Jesus also said:

Matthew 7: 21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Aren't you glad They made it possible to live without iniquity ?
I am !

 

[Gary K]

Aren't you glad They made it possible to live without iniquity ?
I am !

Yes. Not just forgiven but cleansed of my sin also.

 

[JLB]

Nothing.

It says plenty. I guess you have never read it.


Do you understand that Judaism and those who follow its teachings, deny Jesus as Messiah?

 

[Randy]

Not me. I've lived such a sinful life I can't judge anyone for the way they live theirs. It's scripture that judges you.

Hebrews 4: 12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
I've always had more friends outside the Adventist church than inside of it. I have been judged very severely by a lot of Adventists. They have cost me more than one job by their wagging tongues. I see glimmers of hope for us though. In 1888 the church rejected righteousness by faith which means it's God's work to clean us up. It's impossible to do it on our own as we are sinful at the level of our DNA. We inherited it from Adam and Eve.

It is personally knowing God that saves us.

John 17: 1 THESE words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Jesus also said:

Matthew 7: 21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Look my friend I have nothing against anyone who keeps the sabbath. Nor should anyone have anything against me for not adding that when I made a choice to follow Christ Jesus all the days of my life as I have not ever kept the sabbath as is in the law. I know Jesus and He knows me. He has never stated to me I need to keep the sabbath.

I pass this test.
Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?

 

[Gary K]

It says plenty. I guess you have never read it.


Do you understand that Judaism and those who follow its teachings, deny Jesus as Messiah?

The Talmud? I have copies of both the Jerusalem and Babylonian Talmuds.

Here's a quote from SA Jew from the1800s who became a Christian. He was raised to be a rabbi as he was born on the day of atonement.

TEACHINGS OF RABBIS PLACED ABOVE GOD’S WORD
15. They were putting themselves in the place of God to the people; their sayings were placed
upon equality with God’s teachings. Hence we read that the written law was like water; but the oral law,
Mishna, was like wine: the Gemara, like spiced wine. Some went as far as to say that the words of the
scribes are lovely above the words of the law (meaning the written law), for the words of the written law
are weighty and light; but the words of the scribes are all weighty. One, Rabbi Judah, son of Tamai, said:
“A child at five years should study the Bible, at ten the Mishna, at fifteen the Gernara.”
From this last statement it can be seen that three times as much value is placed upon the words of
men as upon the words of God. The person as he comes to years of maturity should regard the words of the
Scripture only one-third as much as he does the words of the rabbis. Yes, they go so far as to say:
“Yea, though they should tell thee that thy right hand is the left, and the left hand that it is the
right, it must be believed.”
It is not surprising, then, that the Savior condemned those teachers for making void the word of
God by their tradition. By their multiplicity of maxims they enslaved the man; they put the word of God
aside, in order that their words might be highly esteemed.

 

[JLB]

The Talmud? I have copies of both the Jerusalem and Babylonian Talmuds.

Here's a quote from SA Jew from the1800s who became a Christian. He was raised to be a rabbi as he was born on the day of atonement.

TEACHINGS OF RABBIS PLACED ABOVE GOD’S WORD
15. They were putting themselves in the place of God to the people; their sayings were placed
upon equality with God’s teachings. Hence we read that the written law was like water; but the oral law,
Mishna, was like wine: the Gemara, like spiced wine. Some went as far as to say that the words of the
scribes are lovely above the words of the law (meaning the written law), for the words of the written law
are weighty and light; but the words of the scribes are all weighty. One, Rabbi Judah, son of Tamai, said:
“A child at five years should study the Bible, at ten the Mishna, at fifteen the Gernara.”
From this last statement it can be seen that three times as much value is placed upon the words of
men as upon the words of God. The person as he comes to years of maturity should regard the words of the
Scripture only one-third as much as he does the words of the rabbis. Yes, they go so far as to say:
“Yea, though they should tell thee that thy right hand is the left, and the left hand that it is the
right, it must be believed.”
It is not surprising, then, that the Savior condemned those teachers for making void the word of
God by their tradition. By their multiplicity of maxims they enslaved the man; they put the word of God
aside, in order that their words might be highly esteemed.

The Talmud are teachings of man.

Use scripture, not the tradition of man.

 

[Gary K]

The Talmud are teachings of man.

Use scripture, not the tradition of man.

Oh, so now I am the one who is saying follow the Talmud. Do you realize how that makes you look as you can't delete my previous posts denigrating the Talmud. First you tell me I've never read it, and now you're telling me it's man made teaching which was my entire point for bringing it into the conversation.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Yes. Not just forgiven but cleansed of my sin also.

Thank God for the name of Jesus Christ, into whom we are baptized.

 

[Gary K]

Thank God for the name of Jesus Christ, into whom we are baptized.

Forgiveness is good, but there are limits to it. What do David and Peter say about this?

Psalm 19: 13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.

2Peter : 9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

Adjective: presumptuous pri'zúmp-choo-us

1. Excessively forward
   "the duchess would not put up with presumptuous servants";
   - assumptive, assuming, bold

 

[Hopeful 2]

Forgiveness is good, but there are limits to it. What do David and Peter say about this?

What can limit God's forgiveness for sin ?
(Besides false repentances)

Psalm 19: 13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.

An OT man who couldn't be reborn of God's seed yet.
Walking in the flesh like everyone else in the OT.
I don't really receive anything from that.

2Peter : 9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

Thanks be to God for allowing us in the NT to be Godly !
To walk in the Spirit instead of in the "flesh".
To be able to resist every temptation.

 

[Gary K]

What can limit God's forgiveness for sin ?
(Besides false repentances)

An OT man who couldn't be reborn of God's seed yet.
Walking in the flesh like everyone else in the OT.
I don't really receive anything from that.

Thanks be to God for allowing us in the NT to be Godly !
To walk in the Spirit instead of in the "flesh".
To be able to resist every temptation.

Matthew 12:
30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
31 ¶ Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

To ignore the pleading of the Spirit and choose to sin repeatedly and without even attempting to ask for forgiveness from those we do it to is blasphemy against the Spirit.

Matthew 7: 1 JUDGE not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

If we don't ask forgiveness from those we sin against we are judging them to be unworthy of our asking their forgiveness.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Matthew 12:
30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
31 ¶ Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

To ignore the pleading of the Spirit and choose to sin repeatedly and without even attempting to ask for forgiveness from those we do it to is blasphemy against the Spirit.

I am not sure how that relates to my post, but your POV regarding blasphemy is of your own mind.

Matthew 7: 1 JUDGE not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
If we don't ask forgiveness from those we sin against we are judging them to be unworthy of our asking their forgiveness.

Could be.

 

[JLB]

Oh, so now I am the one who is saying follow the Talmud. Do you realize how that makes you look as you can't delete my previous posts denigrating the Talmud. First you tell me I've never read it, and now you're telling me it's man made teaching which was my entire point for bringing it into the conversation.

Yes, that’s right.

If you say Jesus is not mentioned in the Talmud then you have not read it.

Yes, the Talmud is the teachings of man, from a religion that denies Jesus Christ is the Messiah.

 

[Gary K]

Yes, that’s right.

If you say Jesus is not mentioned in the Talmud then you have not read it.

Yes, the Talmud is the teachings of man, from a religion that denies Jesus Christ is the Messiah.

So where in the Talmud do you find this? Which Talmud and tractate?