Is the Anti Christ a person or a system?

[destiny]

The image of the beastâ€â€a federation of Protestant churchesâ€â€together with the beastâ€â€Papacyâ€â€will control the thinking of the people.

Person.....or all of the above?

 

[City Of God]

I think that you're definately on to something here. I don't think that the image of the beast is a person. I think the two horns of the lamb represent two different kingdoms which give their authority to the Beast (Rome). I think there is a religious side which is represented by the imposter lamb but also a governmental aspect represented by the horns. I think these two horns represent the sixth and seventh horns of the beast. Now, if the fifth head of the beast wounded represents the reformation period of Sardis. Take a guess then at what the sixth and seventh heads represent and then you'll know what I am saying the false lamb is.

I think the Anti Christ is defenitely a system and a person, maybe not one single person but a plurality of persons holding the office throughout the age of the Church. I don't think the man of sin is really adressed in The Revelation Of Jesus Christ though.

 

[destiny]

Take a guess then at what the sixth and seventh heads represent and then you'll know what I am saying the false lamb is.

Aren't the seven heads seven mountains? It's logical to surmise that the heads of the beast are symbolic just as the beast itself is symbolic. Thus, “mountain†in Bible prophecy usually represents a kingdom or an empire.
Tell me who you think the false lamb is, I'm learning a little as I go along.

I think the Anti Christ is defenitely a system and a person

I agree, although don't you think that 2 Thess. 2:1-12 sounds like the apostate church? It sounds like a spirit that will exalt itself above God (within the heart of man) sitting in the temple of (flesh). I've personally seen this happening.
"He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way."
Is this refering to the Holy Spirit, I think so, but i'm wondering what you think.

 

[City Of God]

Well, I think that the temple referred to is the body of Jesus Christ, his Church. As God has said, "I will dwell among them and they shall be my people and I will be their God." That is where the man of sin will/has seated him self. As for the second part yes I agree it is speaking of the Holy Spirit but maybe not in the same way as is thought by those who are called Futurists. I don't think that the Holy Spirit will ever be completely removed from the planet via a pre-tribulation rapture. I think it was more the apostolic presence and power of the Spirit during that time is what is being addressed. As long as the apostles were around there would be no Anti Christ set up in the Church.....they would not allow it. They were collectively with the Holy Spirit restraining. The Church began to erode and went through this falling away which allowed the man of sin to set himself up.

As far as the mountains go, I think they represent:
1. Kingdoms
2. The Seven Hills of Rome
3. The Seven Churches

Careful study of the seven Churches will reveal that the Roman Catholic church is represented by the age of Thiatra which means "Continual Sacrafice". The Menorah is symbolic of Israel but we later learn that it is also symbolic of the Church that is what John is seeing here. The woman, whore Church is seated on the beast (Rome) the base of the Menorah is Thyatira on each side of this base there are three lamps, Ephesus-Pergamos on one side and Sardis-Laodicea on the other. So basically what I am saying is I believe the two horns of the lamb are represented by the Philadelphia and Laodicea periods or more rightly representative of the United Kingdom/Anglican Church and United States/American Church. This is the lamb that makes an image to the beast.

If the Slave Masters Son grants you the illusion of freedom are you truely free? No, it's just another form of bondage an image of the first.

 

[Restin]

..... don't you think that 2 Thess. 2:1-12 sounds like the apostate church? It sounds like a spirit that will exalt itself above God (within the heart of man) sitting in the temple of (flesh). I've personally seen this happening.
"He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way."
Is this refereing to the Holy Spirit, I think so, but i'm wondering what you think.

The law was given to Israel, by Moses, four hundred and thirty years after
the promises were spoken to Abraham (Gal 3:15-18). This law, even today,
is what restrains the man of sin. When this law is taken away, the fear of God
no longer restrains the man of sin. Then, apostasy & lawlessness will be revealed
for what they really are. Devastations such as never have been, are just ahead.

Is the Anti Christ a person or a system?

The Anti Christ is anyone, person or system
that puts itself on equality with God.

......Restin

 

[Little Drummer Boy]

As far as the mountains go, I think they represent:
1. Kingdoms
2. The Seven Hills of Rome
3. The Seven Churches

1. Revelation 17:10 tells you of seven kings. And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

Israel hasn't always possess the promised land.

2. Revelation 17:7...which hath the seven heads and ten horns. Revelation 17:9 says seven heads are seven Mountains.

3. The Seven Churches are in Asia Minor(Turkey)Revelation 1:4, not Rome, Italy.

Aren't the seven heads seven mountains?

Revelation 17:9 says so, the next verse says: And there are seven kings:.......

And is a conjunction.

 

[destiny]

..... don't you think that 2 Thess. 2:1-12 sounds like the apostate church? It sounds like a spirit that will exalt itself above God (within the heart of man) sitting in the temple of (flesh). I've personally seen this happening.
"He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way."
Is this refereing to the Holy Spirit, I think so, but i'm wondering what you think.

The law was given to Israel, by Moses, four hundred and thirty years after
the promises were spoken to Abraham (Gal 3:15-18). This law, even today,
is what restrains the man of sin. When this law is taken away, the fear of God
no longer restrains the man of sin. Then, apostasy & lawlessness will be revealed
for what they really are. Devastations such as never have been, are just ahead.

Is the Anti Christ a person or a system?

The Anti Christ is anyone, person or system
that puts itself on equality with God.

......Restin

Let no man deceive you by any means; for that day shall not come except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition."  2 Thess. 2:3.
Is this talking about the (person) of the anti christ? Do you think the son of perdition is satan incarnate?

 

[Little Drummer Boy]

Let no man deceive you by any means; for that day shall not come except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition."  2 Thess. 2:3.
Is this talking about the (person) of the anti christ? Do you think the son of perdition is satan incarnate?

Zechariah 11:17 Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.

John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Isaiah 16:4 Let mine outcasts dwell with thee, Moab; be thou a covert to them from the face of the spoiler: for the extortioner is at an end, the spoiler ceaseth, the oppressors are consumed out of the land.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Antiochus Epiphanes(king of Syria) was a real person, anti-God of the Old Testament...

persecutting the Jews
defiled the temple
ordered an end to daily sacrifices
sacrificed to a Greek god on the alter

 

[reznwerks]

perdition

[

John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Who or what is the "son of perdition" that John is referring too in scripture. It can't be anything in the N/T so it must be the O/T. I can't find that phrase or the word perdition anywhere in the O/T.

 

[Little Drummer Boy]

Re: perdition

John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Who or what is the "son of perdition" that John is referring too in scripture. It can't be anything in the N/T so it must be the O/T. I can't find that phrase or the word perdition anywhere in the O/T.

It was in the prayer Jesus did for the disciples. Perdition is both a place and a spiritual(i.e. Satan) condition, or as 2 Peter 3:7 puts it "ungodly men".

 

[evanman]

The only other reference to the "son of Perdition2 is what Jesus Christ called Judas iscariot.

Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Perdition is the word translated from the Greek word "Apoleias" which is where the word "Apollyon" which means destroyer, comes from.

Re 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

So the Hebrew word will be a derivative of Abaddon.

 

[destiny]

The only other reference to the "son of Perdition2 is what Jesus Christ called Judas iscariot.

Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Perdition is the word translated from the Greek word "Apoleias" which is where the word "Apollyon" which means destroyer, comes from.

[quote:1888a] Re 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

So the Hebrew word will be a derivative of Abaddon.[/quote:1888a]
But in the context of 2 Thess. 2:3, who or what is this scripture referring to?

 

[reznwerks]

Re: perdition

[quote="Little Drummer Boy":bc539]John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Who or what is the "son of perdition" that John is referring too in scripture. It can't be anything in the N/T so it must be the O/T. I can't find that phrase or the word perdition anywhere in the O/T.

It was in the prayer Jesus did for the disciples. Perdition is both a place and a spiritual(i.e. Satan) condition, or as 2 Peter 3:7 puts it "ungodly men".[/quote:bc539]
I don't think you understood what I was asking.
"That the scripture might be fulfilled"
This has to imply a reference to the Old Testament. I can't find anything there on it.

 

[xkonradx s.f.]

I don't think Abaddon is meant to be the anti-christ. I always thought the fifth trumpet related to the Iraq-Kuwait war because the war lasted five months and Saddam also means "the destroyer".

 

[Nicolaj]

I believe one of the anti christs is Islam.

 

[Little Drummer Boy]

Person.....or all of the above?

Ecclesiastes 1:9-10; Psalm 2:1-3; Revelation 17:12; Acts 4:13-31.

I don't think you understood what I was asking.
"That the scripture might be fulfilled"
This has to imply a reference to the Old Testament. I can't find anything there on it.

John 17:12 was covered by evanman and it is a prayer for the disciples.


Brothers,

Matthew 18:12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?
Matthew 18:13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.
Matthew 18:14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

Every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of antichrist. 2 John 1:7

 

[Little Drummer Boy]

[quote="Little Drummer Boy":4a91a]John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Who or what is the "son of perdition" that John is referring too in scripture. It can't be anything in the N/T so it must be the O/T. I can't find that phrase or the word perdition anywhere in the O/T.

It was in the prayer Jesus did for the disciples. Perdition is both a place and a spiritual(i.e. Satan) condition, or as 2 Peter 3:7 puts it "ungodly men".

I don't think you understood what I was asking.
"That the scripture might be fulfilled"
This has to imply a reference to the Old Testament. I can't find anything there on it.[/quote:4a91a]

Sorry it took so long to get back to this. I've been really busy away from home, but now I have a couple of days.
John 17:12 was a prayer Jesus did for His disciples, also Judas Iscariot. See Psalms 41:9, John 13:18, Zechariah 11:12-13, Matthew 27:3-5 for scripture being fulfilled.

The only other reference to the "son of Perdition2 is what Jesus Christ called Judas iscariot.

Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Perdition is the word translated from the Greek word "Apoleias" which is where the word "Apollyon" which means destroyer, comes from.

[quote:4a91a] Re 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

So the Hebrew word will be a derivative of Abaddon.

But in the context of 2 Thess. 2:3, who or what is this scripture referring to?[/quote:4a91a]

Satan's seed, Genesis 3:15, John 8:44. the willful king, Daniel 11:36. the lawless one, 2 Thessalonians 2:8. his own name, John 5:43. Perdition is "utter destruction; eternal damnation."

 

[Geo]

A bit more specific, but it still needs revelation to actually understand it:

http://www.dccsa.com/greatjoy/chart.html
http://www.dccsa.com/greatjoy/shpleBU.htm

many people confuse a system or the false prophet with the AC
or simply throw names like "Solana" without ever looking if this
relates in any detailed form to scripture. A single hunch is not prove.
From all 'applicants' only one has a matching 'storyline' and a 'correct' bio.

 

[Merciful]

I believe one of the anti christs is Islam.

Why?

Or are you confusing Islam with violent islamic fundementalists? There really is a difference.