Is the old man dead, or do we put him to death daily?

[keptandprotected]

I've always had a hard time really understanding this concept.

1 Cor 15:31 says Paul dies daily.
Rom 8:13 says put to death the deeds of the body.
Col 3:5-8 says to put off sins of the flesh

Then,

Rom 6:8-11 says we are dead to sin
Gal 2:19-20 says we are dead to sin, crucified with Christ, and alive to righteousness through Christ.

So if we are dead to sin, crucified with Christ, which I believe wholeheartedly, why does Paul say he dies daily? I can reconcile the part about putting to death the deeds of the body and putting off sins of the flesh to the fact that the body is dead because of sin, because we're putting away our sinful deeds, not putting away our body. But I'm not sure why Paul says he dies daily. The only thing I can think of is that he is talking about his physical body is dying daily because the context is talking about resurrection of the dead.

Any thoughts on this?

 

[reba]

Some parts of this ol gal died years ago some are dying...

 

[keptandprotected]

But Christ died completely, we were crucified with Him, and He announced "it is finished." Why would there be any parts alive from the old man?

 

[reba]

because i am not Christ... i am just a human

 

[keptandprotected]

Who was Paul, then?

 

[reba]

I am thankful for the junk that has died off... I do not struggle with this issue

Php_1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

 

[reba]

Who was Paul, then?

You know who Paul was ... so you must mean something else , what?

 

[keptandprotected]

I believe the old man is completely dead. Alive only for righteousness. But we still get to choose good or evil, with this dead body. So we are instructed to put off the sins of the heart and flesh.

 

[reba]

Sounds to me like you have this

I've always had a hard time really understanding this concept.

concept figured out the way that suits you ..

 

[Jim Parker]

I've always had a hard time really understanding this concept.

1 Cor 15:31 says Paul dies daily.
Rom 8:13 says put to death the deeds of the body.
Col 3:5-8 says to put off sins of the flesh

Then,

Rom 6:8-11 says we are dead to sin
Gal 2:19-20 says we are dead to sin, crucified with Christ, and alive to righteousness through Christ.

So if we are dead to sin, crucified with Christ, which I believe wholeheartedly, why does Paul say he dies daily? I can reconcile the part about putting to death the deeds of the body and putting off sins of the flesh to the fact that the body is dead because of sin, because we're putting away our sinful deeds, not putting away our body. But I'm not sure why Paul says he dies daily. The only thing I can think of is that he is talking about his physical body is dying daily because the context is talking about resurrection of the dead.

Any thoughts on this?

Do you still experience temptation?
Then the flesh is still active.

When Paul uses those expressions, they are illustrations, not literal, scientific, descriptions of reality.

You are "dead to sin" because your spirit leads you to resist sin. (The spirit wages war against the flesh.)
If your physical body had literally died you would have been buried and would not be participating in this forum.

The body is "dead" because of sin means that it is the body that does the act of sinning and the wages of sin is death. That doesn't mean that if you commit one sin, you will drop dead on the spot.

The scriptures are literature and employ every literary device available to communicate God's message.

iakov the fool

 

[keptandprotected]

You know who Paul was ... so you must mean something else , what?

Paul was human, like us, obviously. If he was dead to sin and alive to righteousness it was because he chose to put off the old coat of sinful deeds and put on the new coat of righteous deeds.

 

[keptandprotected]

Do you still experience temptation?
Then the flesh is still active.

When Paul uses those expressions, they are illustrations, not literal, scientific, descriptions of reality.

You are "dead to sin" because your spirit leads you to resist sin. (The spirit wages war against the flesh.)
If your physical body had literally died you would have been buried and would not be participating in this forum.

The body is "dead" because of sin means that it is the body that does the act of sinning and the wages of sin is death. That doesn't mean that if you commit one sin, you will drop dead on the spot.

The scriptures are literature and employ every literary device available to communicate God's message.

iakov the fool

I don't know. I'm still not convinced that the body is not dead to sin, alive to righteousness. I believe a little more literally I guess.

 

[Jim Parker]

I don't know. I'm still not convinced that the body is not dead to sin, alive to righteousness. I believe a little more literally I guess.

What does your experience tell you?

 

[smaller]

I've always had a hard time really understanding this concept.

1 Cor 15:31 says Paul dies daily.
Rom 8:13 says put to death the deeds of the body.
Col 3:5-8 says to put off sins of the flesh

Then,

Rom 6:8-11 says we are dead to sin
Gal 2:19-20 says we are dead to sin, crucified with Christ, and alive to righteousness through Christ.

So if we are dead to sin, crucified with Christ, which I believe wholeheartedly, why does Paul say he dies daily? I can reconcile the part about putting to death the deeds of the body and putting off sins of the flesh to the fact that the body is dead because of sin, because we're putting away our sinful deeds, not putting away our body. But I'm not sure why Paul says he dies daily. The only thing I can think of is that he is talking about his physical body is dying daily because the context is talking about resurrection of the dead.

Any thoughts on this?

The flesh, because of indwelling sin, which Paul termed "NO MORE I" and the evil present with us REMAINS factually against and contrary to the Spirit (and vice versa), Gal. 5:17, and these workings in the flesh are and remain under the condemnation of God in Christ. Whether these workings are seen in the open, or not. Romans 3:9, Romans 8:3, Gal. 3:22, Gal. 4:29.

As much as we try to avoid this sight, we can not. This conflict brought Paul to understand the "warring" in his members, Romans 7:23, the CAUSE of that warring, indwelling sin/evil present which was NOT Paul, Romans 7:17-21, the "wretched man" that I am claim, Romans 7:24, and the knowledge that his flesh did serve the 'LAW OF SIN.' Romans 7:25.

Paul brought his own flesh UNDER the condemnation of God in Christ, daily, precisely because of those workings in his own flesh. Hence our respective 'crosses.' Hence, the daily death understanding.

There would be no cause to consider this aspect of our own cross, were indwelling sin and evil present with him, in his flesh, not active components of the flesh, against the Spirit. The Spirit points to the cross of death for the flesh, where it will ultimately hang in the end. Our baptism is a "picture" of this "dying with Him" and being subsequently raised.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

But I'm not sure why Paul says he dies daily. The only thing I can think of is that he is talking about his physical body is dying daily because the context is talking about resurrection of the dead.

Any thoughts on this?

I think this gives a little more insight into what death Paul died daily:

"8we are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not despairing;9persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed; 10always carrying about in the body the dying of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body. 11For we who live are constantly being delivered over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh. 12So death works in us, but life in you." (2 Corinthians 4:8-12 NASB)

I think the death he is dying is his dying in the service of others. I think the context of 1 Corinthians 15:29-32 NASB supports this. Peter talks about this same thing:

"...if when you do what is right and suffer for it you patiently endure it, this finds favor with God. 21For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps, 22WHO COMMITTED NO SIN, NOR WAS ANY DECEIT FOUND IN HIS MOUTH; 23and while being reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously; 24and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed." (1 Peter 2:20-24 NASB capitals in original)

"13but to the degree that you share the sufferings of Christ, keep on rejoicing, so that also at the revelation of His glory you may rejoice with exultation." (1 Peter 4:13 NASB)

In the example of Christ, we are to die every day, suffering for others, even bearing with their sins in our flesh so they can be healed. In the context of 1 Corinthians 15, it makes no sense to do that if there is no resurrection of the dead:

"29Otherwise, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why then are they baptized for them? 30Why are we also in danger every hour? 31I affirm, brethren, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. 32If from human motives I fought with wild beasts at Ephesus, what does it profit me? If the dead are not raised, LET US EAT AND DRINK, FOR TOMORROW WE DIE. " (1 Corinthians 15:29-32 NASB capitals in original)

 

[eddif]

Romans 6:11 KJV
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 8:34 KJV
Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

You just about have to approach this as a legal action / covenant.

Were we guilty - yes
Were we pardoned - yes
Do we understand with the carnal mind - no
Is intercession still going on for us - yes

Just keep reviewing conflicts and (Rekon) we are dead although some evidence shows something we hate.

Cling to the pardon and keep it close. When condemnation comes, get that pardon out and read it again. Continue on in grace.

The other option is to tear up the pardon. Forget the price paid for the pardon.

eddif

 

[WIP]

Paul was human, like us, obviously. If he was dead to sin and alive to righteousness it was because he chose to put off the old coat of sinful deeds and put on the new coat of righteous deeds.

Could it be possible that his desire was toward righteousness although we all know that even though we may have that desire we cannot of our own volition succeed? It is for this reason that we need a savior in Jesus Christ.

One of my favorite Bible passages, Romans 7:15-25, talks about this. His desire was to serve the Lord but what he willed or desired to do he failed to do and what he willed or desired not to do he did anyway but he didn't give in and rest on his inability but continued to push forward with perseverance, striving to fight the good fight, and in the end he got it right, "I thank God - through Jesus Christ our Lord!" Without Jesus there is no hope.

 

[smaller]

Could it be possible that his desire was toward righteousness although we all know that even though we may have that desire we cannot of our own volition succeed? It is for this reason that we need a savior in Jesus Christ.

One of my favorite Bible passages, Romans 7:15-25, talks about this. His desire was to serve the Lord but what he willed or desired to do he failed to do and what he willed or desired not to do he did anyway but he didn't give in and rest on his inability but continued to push forward with perseverance, striving to fight the good fight, and in the end he got it right, "I thank God - through Jesus Christ our Lord!"

Without Jesus there is no hope.

Bravo! Brilliant conclusion. It's not easy understanding that His Life, His Resurrection, is sown in "our" current states of dishonor, corruption, weakness, and is technically dead because of the presence of sin, flesh. Romans 3:8, Romans 3:10, Gal. 5:17.

But that is exactly where this is at. Anytime we look at our flesh, we should see it for the 'natural planting ground' that God Himself made it to be. I'm not saying the flesh or the material is "evil." Not at all. Those 'states' of the flesh are precisely and specifically AGAINST the spirit, because the workings therein are adverse "spiritual" in nature. It is nothing more than dust. And in that dust there is spiritual adversity. 1 Cor. 15:42-47.

In final resurrection, all of those material states of dead ground and the adverse spiritual nature that resides IN IT, are put off.

 

[JLB]

I've always had a hard time really understanding this concept.

1 Cor 15:31 says Paul dies daily.
Rom 8:13 says put to death the deeds of the body.
Col 3:5-8 says to put off sins of the flesh

Then,

Rom 6:8-11 says we are dead to sin
Gal 2:19-20 says we are dead to sin, crucified with Christ, and alive to righteousness through Christ.

So if we are dead to sin, crucified with Christ, which I believe wholeheartedly, why does Paul say he dies daily? I can reconcile the part about putting to death the deeds of the body and putting off sins of the flesh to the fact that the body is dead because of sin, because we're putting away our sinful deeds, not putting away our body. But I'm not sure why Paul says he dies daily. The only thing I can think of is that he is talking about his physical body is dying daily because the context is talking about resurrection of the dead.

Any thoughts on this?

• Have you been Baptized with water?
• Have you been Baptized with the Holy Spirit?

Sometimes there is more the Lord want's to give us, that we may be unaware of.

Think of yourself as "the promised land", that the Lord desires to give you, only when you first receive it, you may find there is some work to do, in order for you enjoy a land flowing with milk and honey.

The Lord want's us to "cleanse the land", that we would possess it in honor.

Finally then, brethren, we urge and exhort in the Lord Jesus that you should abound more and more, just as you received from us how you ought to walk and to please God; 2 for you know what commandments we gave you through the Lord Jesus.
3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality; 4 that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, 5 not in passion of lust, like the Gentiles who do not know God; 6 that no one should take advantage of and defraud his brother in this matter, because the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also forewarned you and testified. 7 For God did not call us to uncleanness, but in holiness. 8 Therefore he who rejects this does not reject man, but God, who has also given us His Holy Spirit. 1 Thessalonians 4:1-8

and again

14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? 15 And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? 16 And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said:

“I will dwell in them
And walk among them.
I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.”

17 Therefore

“Come out from among them
And be separate, says the Lord.
Do not touch what is unclean,
And I will receive you.”
18 “I will be a Father to you,
And you shall be My sons and daughters,
Says the Lord Almighty.”
Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. 2 Corinthians 6:14-7:1


The more we spend time with the Lord, the more He will lead and guide us in these things as well as renew our minds... that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.



JLB