Isaiah 9 revisited

[einstein]

einstein seems to be the kind of person who has a common understanding of scripture.
What he finds logical is what he believes.For instance,he would believe Solomon is the seed of David who would build the temple of God.

12. When your days are finished and you shall lie with your forefathers, then I will raise up your seed that shall proceed from your body after you, and I will establish his kingdom. יב.
13. He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. ×™×’.
14. I will be to him a father, and he shall be to Me a son; so that when he goes astray I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the sons of Adam. יד.
15. But My mercy shall not depart from him as I withdrew it from Saul, whom I removed from before you. טו.
16. And your house and your kingdom shall be confirmed forever before you; your throne shall be established forever." 2 Sam7:12-16

19. And, behold, I purpose to build a house for the name of the Lord my God, as the Lord spoke to David my father, saying, 'Your son whom I will set upon your throne in your place, he shall build a house for My name.' 1Kings5:19 So who is this?

 

[Shilohsfoal]

einstein seems to be the kind of person who has a common understanding of scripture.
What he finds logical is what he believes.For instance,he would believe Solomon is the seed of David who would build the temple of God.

12. When your days are finished and you shall lie with your forefathers, then I will raise up your seed that shall proceed from your body after you, and I will establish his kingdom. יב.
13. He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. ×™×’.
14. I will be to him a father, and he shall be to Me a son; so that when he goes astray I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the sons of Adam. יד.
15. But My mercy shall not depart from him as I withdrew it from Saul, whom I removed from before you. טו.
16. And your house and your kingdom shall be confirmed forever before you; your throne shall be established forever." 2 Sam7:12-16

19. And, behold, I purpose to build a house for the name of the Lord my God, as the Lord spoke to David my father, saying, 'Your son whom I will set upon your throne in your place, he shall build a house for My name.' 1Kings5:19 So who is this?

2Sam 7;12-16=The word of God.

1 kings5;5-The word of Solomon

 

[einstein]

einstein seems to be the kind of person who has a common understanding of scripture.
What he finds logical is what he believes.For instance,he would believe Solomon is the seed of David who would build the temple of God.

I guess that's your sarcastic way of confirming my belief that Solomon built the first Temple.
Still waiting for a response to my question regarding Matthew's mistranslations and fabrication.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

einstein seems to be the kind of person who has a common understanding of scripture.
What he finds logical is what he believes.For instance,he would believe Solomon is the seed of David who would build the temple of God.

I guess that's your sarcastic way of confirming my belief that Solomon built the first Temple.
Still waiting for a response to my question regarding Matthew's mistranslations and fabrication.

I wasnt being sarcastic.

But Solomon built him a house.
Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands,as saith the prophet.
Heaven is my throne,and earth is my footstool;what house will ye build me?saith the Lord;or what is the place of my rest?
Hath not my hand made all these things?
Ye stiffnecked and uncircumsized in heart and ears,ye do always resist the Holy Ghost;as you fathers did,so do ye.

You have a common understanding of scripture.Very common.

 

[westtexas]

The manipulation consists of taking verses from the Hebrew Bible out of context, mistranslating verses and fabricating verses which do not exist in the Hebrew Bible:

Matthew 2:23

And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, "He shall be called a Nazarene." Please show me where it says in the Hebrew Bible that the Messiah would hail from/reside in Nazareth.

Einstein, I don't speak Hebrew as you do so I had to do a little surfing on the net. Please take a look at this site and tell me what you think. It is a study on the Hebrew word nazer

http://www.ao.net/~fmoeller/nazer2.htm

nazer is translated -the branch
nazeroth(that's real close to Nazareth,ain't it?) is the fem.plural
nazarene is literally translated "the one who is the branch"
Zechariah, Isaiah and Jeremiah call Jesus "the Branch" numerous times
Matthew 2:23 that it might be fulfilled by the prophets(Zechariah,Isaiah and Jeremiah) "He shall be called a Nazarene" (He shall be called THE BRANCH)
Please tell me what you think,
your brother in Christ, Westtexas

 

[einstein]

Gee. That's really impressive. You can quote from Acts. So here is Luke quoting Isaiah implying that the Temple was not built in the name of the Eternal. Actually the first verse in Isaiah reads:"So says the Lord, "The heavens are My throne, and the earth is My footstool; which is the house that you will build for Me, and which is the place of My rest?" Isaiah goes on to admonish those who rely on temple sacrifices without the true spirit of repentance and who mock God by not following his laws.

But look at verse 6 in the very same chapter:" There is a sound of stirring from the city, a sound from the Temple, the voice of the Lord, recompensing His enemies." So, it seems that the Shechinah can be found in the Temple after all.

The Creator of the Universe does not dwell anywhere- he dwells everywhere which is why He is sometimes referred to as "HaMakom"--The Place. But when Israel truly sought justice and righteousness and walked in way of God, then his Shechinah made a presence within the House that he allowed Solomon to construct.

 

[einstein]

The manipulation consists of taking verses from the Hebrew Bible out of context, mistranslating verses and fabricating verses which do not exist in the Hebrew Bible:

Matthew 2:23

And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, "He shall be called a Nazarene." Please show me where it says in the Hebrew Bible that the Messiah would hail from/reside in Nazareth.

Einstein, I don't speak Hebrew as you do so I had to do a little surfing on the net. Please take a look at this site and tell me what you think. It is a study on the Hebrew word nazer

http://www.ao.net/~fmoeller/nazer2.htm

nazer is translated -the branch
nazeroth(that's real close to Nazareth,ain't it?) is the fem.plural
nazarene is literally translated "the one who is the branch"
Zechariah, Isaiah and Jeremiah call Jesus "the Branch" numerous times
Matthew 2:23 that it might be fulfilled by the prophets(Zechariah,Isaiah and Jeremiah) "He shall be called a Nazarene" (He shall be called THE BRANCH)
Please tell me what you think,
your brother in Christ, Westtexas

Thank you for your post. This line of reasoning is problematic for a number or reasons.

1. Although the term "netser" (an offshoot) in Isaiah 11:1is used as a metaphor to describe a new scion from David's lineage this term is not used by any other prophet. The other prophets use the term "tsemach" which is translated as branch but there is no grammatical relationship between the terms. Note that Matthew says that this prophecy is made by a plurality of prophets and this is untrue.
2.The proper name "netser" is never mentioned in the Hebrew Bible as the name of the Mashiach.
3.A careful analysis of Jesus' genealogy as per Matthew and Luke preclude him from being in David's lineage. (This would require a different thread to discuss in detail.)
4.The Hebrew name for Nazareth is natsrat or natseret and probably derives from the root verb natsar which means to guard or watch over. This may be because Nazareth is situated on an elevated plateau, while someone who comes from Nazareth is a notsri.A noun derived from the verb natsar would be notser meaning "a watchman"-a name never associated in the Tanakh with the Mashiach.
5. BTW if you read the verses in Jeremiah in context it is quite clear they do not apply to Jesus since in Jesus' days Judah was not saved rather it was destroyed and Israel could not be dwelling safely since the Kingdom of Israel has not existed for about 700 years-hence the Tzemach has not appeared yet.

 

[westtexas]

The manipulation consists of taking verses from the Hebrew Bible out of context, mistranslating verses and fabricating verses which do not exist in the Hebrew Bible:

Matthew 2:23

And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, "He shall be called a Nazarene." Please show me where it says in the Hebrew Bible that the Messiah would hail from/reside in Nazareth.

Einstein, I don't speak Hebrew as you do so I had to do a little surfing on the net. Please take a look at this site and tell me what you think. It is a study on the Hebrew word nazer

http://www.ao.net/~fmoeller/nazer2.htm

nazer is translated -the branch
nazeroth(that's real close to Nazareth,ain't it?) is the fem.plural
nazarene is literally translated "the one who is the branch"
Zechariah, Isaiah and Jeremiah call Jesus "the Branch" numerous times
Matthew 2:23 that it might be fulfilled by the prophets(Zechariah,Isaiah and Jeremiah) "He shall be called a Nazarene" (He shall be called THE BRANCH)
Please tell me what you think,
your brother in Christ, Westtexas

Thank you for your post. This line of reasoning is problematic for a number or reasons.

1. Although the term "netser" (an offshoot) in Isaiah 11:1is used as a metaphor to describe a new scion from David's lineage this term is not used by any other prophet. The other prophets use the term "tsemach" which is translated as branch but there is no grammatical relationship between the terms. Note that Matthew says that this prophecy is made by a plurality of prophets and this is untrue.
2.The proper name "netser" is never mentioned in the Hebrew Bible as the name of the Mashiach.
3.A careful analysis of Jesus' genealogy as per Matthew and Luke preclude him from being in David's lineage. (This would require a different thread to discuss in detail.)
4.The Hebrew name for Nazareth is natsrat or natseret and probably derives from the root verb natsar which means to guard or watch over. This may be because Nazareth is situated on an elevated plateau, while someone who comes from Nazareth is a notsri.A noun derived from the verb natsar would be notser meaning "a watchman"-a name never associated in the Tanakh with the Mashiach.
5. BTW if you read the verses in Jeremiah in context it is quite clear they do not apply to Jesus since in Jesus' days Judah was not saved rather it was destroyed and Israel could not be dwelling safely since the Kingdom of Israel has not existed for about 700 years-hence the Tzemach has not appeared yet.

Good evening Einstein, thanks for the reply.
Let me address a couple of your points and you can tell me what you think.
Point # 1 above: as I said I am not a Hebrew scholar, however, the above listed website says that the words tsemach and netser are interchangeable (maybe somebody with a Strongs can help me out). If you call it an automobile and I call it a car, it is still a car! With this in mind, I think that his word study ties scripture together very well. It works for me, it doesn't for you and that's OK.

Points 2&3 together- Isaiah 11:1 "and there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots"------ ve-yatsa' choter migeza' yisay VE-NATSAR mish-sharashayv yiphrach
Here the proper name netser (the Branch) is used to describe the Messiah who will come from the lineage of Jesse and King David. This brings us to point 3, can you please tell me why you believe that this Branch (Jesus) does not come from the lineage of Jesse and David?

I look forward to your reply,
your brother in Christ, Westtexas

 

[einstein]

Hi Westtexas: The important point is that Matthew is saying that a plurality of prophets in the Hebrew Bible made the messianic statement that the Mashiach would be called a Nazarene. A careful examination of the Hebrew Bible reveals that this statement is untrue. The fact that Isaiah used the term netser in no way is a fulfillment of the statement in Matthew since Isaiah was using the term in a metaphorical sense. Additionally, there is no true linguistic derivative relationship between the word netser and one who resides or hails from the town of Nazareth. Moreover, the Mashiach is never called by the name of netser.

Wrt to your second point, this would take more than one post to answer but if you don't mind let me start the discussion by asking you a question since I know not all Christians feel the same about this point. In your opinion is Jesus' father God, or more specifically, the Holy Spirit?

 

[westtexas]

Einstein, I believe in a Triune God--God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit
I believe I am a sinner saved by grace through the blood of my Lord Jesus

your brother in Christ, Westtexas

 

[einstein]

Westtexas: OK, I understand. You believe in the Trinity. But who do you view as being the father of Jesus?

 

[westtexas]

Westtexas: OK, I understand. You believe in the Trinity. But who do you view as being the father of Jesus?

God

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Gee. That's really impressive. You can quote from Acts. So here is Luke quoting Isaiah implying that the Temple was not built in the name of the Eternal. Actually the first verse in Isaiah reads:"So says the Lord, "The heavens are My throne, and the earth is My footstool; which is the house that you will build for Me, and which is the place of My rest?" Isaiah goes on to admonish those who rely on temple sacrifices without the true spirit of repentance and who mock God by not following his laws.

But look at verse 6 in the very same chapter:" There is a sound of stirring from the city, a sound from the Temple, the voice of the Lord, recompensing His enemies." So, it seems that the Shechinah can be found in the Temple after all.

The Creator of the Universe does not dwell anywhere- he dwells everywhere which is why He is sometimes referred to as "HaMakom"--The Place. But when Israel truly sought justice and righteousness and walked in way of God, then his Shechinah made a presence within the House that he allowed Solomon to construct.

You seemed to miss the point.
Oh well,nevermind.

 

[einstein]

Westtexas: OK, I understand. You believe in the Trinity. But who do you view as being the father of Jesus?

God

So your belief is in accord with Matthew 1:18 i.e. Mary's child was "of the Holy Ghost". That being the case, it stands to reason that Joseph was not the natural biological father of Jesus. However the law which was in force at this time and the Law that Jesus himself professed to uphold was the Mosaic law in the Torah which stipulated that blood rights such as tribal lineage or affiliation,priestly descent and other lineage-affiliated attributes were exclusively transmitted from biological father to son, i.e. patrilineal. That is why the genealogy in the Hebrew Bible in 1Chron.3:5-24 is written as it is and why in every census of Israel males were enumerated each "according to the house of his father" Num.1:18. However, if, as previously stated, Jesus' father is the Holy Ghost, then the transmission of tribal lineage has been broken since the Holy Ghost has no tribal lineage. What do you think?

 

[westtexas]

Westtexas: OK, I understand. You believe in the Trinity. But who do you view as being the father of Jesus?

God

So your belief is in accord with Matthew 1:18 i.e. Mary's child was "of the Holy Ghost". That being the case, it stands to reason that Joseph was not the natural biological father of Jesus. However the law which was in force at this time and the Law that Jesus himself professed to uphold was the Mosaic law in the Torah which stipulated that blood rights such as tribal lineage or affiliation,priestly descent and other lineage-affiliated attributes were exclusively transmitted from biological father to son, i.e. patrilineal. That is why the genealogy in the Hebrew Bible in 1Chron.3:5-24 is written as it is and why in every census of Israel males were enumerated each "according to the house of his father" Num.1:18. However, if, as previously stated, Jesus' father is the Holy Ghost, then the transmission of tribal lineage has been broken since the Holy Ghost has no tribal lineage. What do you think?

Hello Einstein, This is true with an exception which has 2 requirements. Please go to Num. 26:33 and Num. 27
Here you have the story of Zelophehad and her daughters. Zelophehad passed away and her daughters went to Moses to plead their case because they did not want to see their fathers inheritance pass away because he had no sons. Moses prayed to God to see what to do. God said the daughter could receive the family inheritance if:
#1 Numbers 27:8-- there is no male offspring in the family
#2 Numbers 36:6-- must be married within the same tribe because the inheritance could not move from tribe to tribe

So, Mary has met both requirements and is able to pass the family inheritance on to Jesus. Mary has no brothers and both her and Joseph are descended from the tribe of Judah. Mary from David's son Nathan, and Joseph from David's son Solomon.

Luke 1:30-33 " And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. And, behold, thou shalt concieve in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob forever: and of his kingdom there shall be no end. ( KJV)

your brother in Christ, Westtexas

 

[einstein]

Hi Westtexas: Using the daughters of Zelophehad to validate Mary transmission of lineage does not work for a number of reasons. This incident has nothing to do with tribal lineage- it refers to tangible assets-in this case the land that was to be apportioned to the tribes by a lottery.

Num26:53-55:You shall apportion the land among these as an inheritance, in accordance with the number of names. × ×’. לָ×Âֵלֶּ׆תֵּחָלֵק ×â€Ã–¸×Âָרֶץ בְּנַחֲלָ׆בְּמִסְפַּר שֵ×Âמוֹת:
54. To the large [tribe] you shall give a larger inheritance and to a smaller tribe you shall give a smaller inheritance, each person shall be given an inheritance according to his number. נד. לָרַב תַּרְבֶּ׆נַחֲלָתוֹ וְלַמְעַט תַּמְעִיט נַחֲלָתוֹ ×Âִישנלְפִי פְקֻדָיו יֻתַּן נַחֲלָתוֹ:
55. Only through lot shall the Land be apportioned; they shall inherit it according to the names of their fathers' tribes.

If you look to Num 36 you will see how God commanded Moses to fully resolve the issue. In order to prevent the diminution of landholdings from a tribe, the daughters are allowed to marry anyone they choose as long as they remain within their father's clan or tribe. They can keep the material objects they inherit but then the land remains with the father's tribe. This prevents any land transfers from tribe to tribe.

Num 36:6-7:This is the word that the Lord has commanded regarding Zelophehad's daughters. Let them marry whomever they please, but they shall marry only to the family of their father's tribe. ו. זֶ׆×â€Ã–·×“ָּבָר ×Âֲשֶ×Âר צִוָּ׆יְ־×â€Ã–¹×•Ö¸Ö¾×†×œÖ´×‘ְנוֹת צְלָפְחָד לֵ×Âמֹר לַטּוֹב בְּעֵינֵי×â€Ã–¶× ×ªÖ´Ö¼×â€Ã–°×™Ö¶×™× Ö¸×†×œÖ°× Ö¸×©Ö´×Â×™× ×Âַךְ לְמִשְ×Âפַּחַת מַטֵּ׆×Âֲבִי×â€Ã–¶×ªÖ´Ö¼×â€Ã–°×™Ö¶×™× Ö¸×†×œÖ°× Ö¸×©Ö´×Â×™×Â:
7. Thus, the inheritance of the children of Israel will not be transferred from tribe to tribe, for each person from the children of Israel will remain attached to the inheritance of his father's tribe.

Another reason why attempting to utilize Mary to confirm Jesus lineage to David does not work is that the Davidic covenant is to pass through Solomon, and as you mentioned Luke's genealogy is through Nathan, not Solomon.

2Sam.7:12-17- When your days are finished and you shall lie with your forefathers, then I will raise up your seed that shall proceed from your body after you, and I will establish his kingdom. יב.
13. He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. ×™×’.
14. I will be to him a father, and he shall be to Me a son; so that when he goes astray I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the sons of Adam. יד.
15. But My mercy shall not depart from him as I withdrew it from Saul, whom I removed from before you. טו.
16. And your house and your kingdom shall be confirmed forever before you; your throne shall be established forever." טז.
17. According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak to David.

 

[westtexas]

Hello again Einstein, I disagree with you. Where does scripture state that the Davidic covenant would pass through Solomon? This cannot be due to the curse God put on Solomon's line due to Jeconiah. Jeremiah 22:30 "thus saith the Lord, Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling anymore in Judah" (KJV) However, it was necessary for Joseph to be Jesus' LEGAL father to meet both requirements that God had set forth. Joseph's lineage comes thru David and Solomon and the tribe of Judah. If Joseph had been Jesus' BIOLOGICAL father he would have had no right to the throne due to this curse. So once again our Lord knew ahead of time what he had planned. Both parents are descended from the tribe of Judah, Mary's line from David thru Nathan has no curse and prophecy has been fulfilled. Luke 1:30-33 "And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. And, behold, thou shalt concieve in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reignover the house of Jacob forever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

 

[einstein]

Hello again Einstein, I disagree with you. Where does scripture state that the Davidic covenant would pass through Solomon? This cannot be due to the curse God put on Solomon's line due to Jeconiah. Jeremiah 22:30 "thus saith the Lord, Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling anymore in Judah" (KJV) However, it was necessary for Joseph to be Jesus' LEGAL father to meet both requirements that God had set forth. Joseph's lineage comes thru David and Solomon and the tribe of Judah. If Joseph had been Jesus' BIOLOGICAL father he would have had no right to the throne due to this curse. So once again our Lord knew ahead of time what he had planned. Both parents are descended from the tribe of Judah, Mary's line from David thru Nathan has no curse and prophecy has been fulfilled. Luke 1:30-33 "And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. And, behold, thou shalt concieve in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reignover the house of Jacob forever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

If you re-read 2Sam it should be quite clear that God is saying the following regarding the Davidic covenant:

An everlasting dynasty is established with David
David's heir to the throne who will continue this dynasty will be one of his biological sons.
The son who inherits the throne is the one who will build the Temple in Jerusalem i.e. Solomon not Nathan
The dynasty will proceed through David's seed (zerah) meaning through his direct descendants
Thus every future king will be mortal, will have a special father-son relationship with God and when he sins, he will receive punishment.
Even when future kings sin, God will keep the Davidic dynasty intact and never end it like He did with Saul.
N.B. The covenant does not stipulate that the throne will always be occupied by a king or that any future king will be a deity.
The covenant does not state that a reigning king's son will always take over the throne from his father- only that the king will be a descendant of David via Solomon.

I am well aware of the curse of Jeconiah. However Zedekiah ruled on the throne after him for 11 years.

 

[westtexas]

Hello again Einstein, I want to address some of your statements. I don't know how to use the quotations, so your statements will be in bold letters.

You stated " DAVID'S HEIR TO THE THRONE WHO WILL CONTINUE THIS DYNASTY WILL BE ONE OF HIS BIOLOGICAL SONS"----- Where is this in scripture????

You stated" THE DYNASTY WILL PROCEED THROUGH DAVID'S SEED"---Agreed, just as scripture states above, it proceeded through David through Nathan and down to Mary and Jesus.

You stated" I AM WELL AWARE OF THE CURSE OF JECONIAH. HOWEVER ZEDEKIAH RULED ON THE THRONE AFTER HIM FOR 11 YEARS"-----This has absolutely nothing to do with the curse of Jeconiah! Jeremiah 22: 24-30 God cursed the offspring of Jeconiah. In 1 Chron. 3:15-16 Josiah had 4 sons, the 2nd was Jehoiakim, the 3rd was Zedekiah. Jeconiah was the son of Jehoiakim and it was him (Jeconiah) and his offspring who God cursed and forbid to sit on the throne of David. Zedekiah had no such curse on him.

Which brings us back to where we started. Our Lord fulfills his promises. He kept all of the Mosiac Law so that both requirements in Numbers were fulfilled. And He fulfilled his promise in the Davidic covenant that his seed would be passed on down through David's descendants. And He kept His promise to send us a Messiah----AND HIS NAME IS JESUS

Now it is your turn, you have stated that you feel that the gospels are mistranslated and that Jesus is not the answer to the Davidic covenant. WHO DO YOU FEEL IS THE ANSWER? I have given scripture to back-up my opinions, please give me the same courtesy and respond with scripture and not just opinion.

your brother in Christ, Westtexas

 

[einstein]

Hello again Einstein, I want to address some of your statements. I don't know how to use the quotations, so your statements will be in bold letters.

You stated " DAVID'S HEIR TO THE THRONE WHO WILL CONTINUE THIS DYNASTY WILL BE ONE OF HIS BIOLOGICAL SONS"----- Where is this in scripture????

I believe I already addressed this issue. 2Sam 7;12-13-12-12. When your days are finished and you shall lie with your forefathers then I will raise up your seed that shall proceed from your body after you, and I will establish his kingdom. יב.
13. He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. Is it not clear from these verses that the heir through which the dynasty continues is David's progeny ie from the "zera" meaning his own sperm. This is Solomon- further confirmed in 2 Chron.6:10- And the Lord has established His word that He spoke, and I have risen up in the place of David my father, and I have sat on the throne of Israel, as the Lord spoke, and I have built the House for the name of the Lord, the God of Israel.

You stated" THE DYNASTY WILL PROCEED THROUGH DAVID'S SEED"---Agreed, just as scripture states above, it proceeded through David through Nathan and down to Mary and Jesus. I disagree. As stated above it is clear that the dynasty proceeds through Solomon, not Nathan.



You stated" I AM WELL AWARE OF THE CURSE OF JECONIAH. HOWEVER ZEDEKIAH RULED ON THE THRONE AFTER HIM FOR 11 YEARS"-----This has absolutely nothing to do with the curse of Jeconiah! Jeremiah 22: 24-30 God cursed the offspring of Jeconiah. In 1 Chron. 3:15-16 Josiah had 4 sons, the 2nd was Jehoiakim, the 3rd was Zedekiah. Jeconiah was the son of Jehoiakim and it was him (Jeconiah) and his offspring who God cursed and forbid to sit on the throne of David. Zedekiah had no such curse on him.

That is correct. Zedekiah was Jeconiah's uncle and continued the Davidic dynasty. As I stated earlier, the covenant never said that the transmission would always be from father to son- only that the throne (when occupied) would be by a descendant of David. The Hebrew Bible confirms that there were royal descendants who lived after Zedekiah and many potential branches that trace back to David through Solomon.


Which brings us back to where we started. Our Lord fulfills his promises. He kept all of the Mosiac Law so that both requirements in Numbers were fulfilled. And He fulfilled his promise in the Davidic covenant that his seed would be passed on down through David's descendants. And He kept His promise to send us a Messiah----AND HIS NAME IS JESUS

Now it is your turn, you have stated that you feel that the gospels are mistranslated and that Jesus is not the answer to the Davidic covenant. WHO DO YOU FEEL IS THE ANSWER? I have given scripture to back-up my opinions, please give me the same courtesy and respond with scripture and not just opinion.

Actually, what I stated was that the gospels often use mistranslations of the HEBREW BIBLE or take quotes out of context to retrofit Jesus into the Hebrew Bible. If you wish I could provide you with many more. Your question is rhetorical from a Jewish perspective- it has no answer since Jews believe that the Mashiach has not yet arrived. We have no fulfillment of the Mashiach's stated agenda where his presence is to make a real difference in the world we live in, not in some heavenly kingdom. We have no universal knowledge of the God of Israel, no universal peace, no third temple, etc. Jews believe that the Mashiach will accomplish this when he arrives- not in a second coming which has no basis in the Hebrew Bible. I hope I have answered your questions, but if you have any more feel free to ask away. :P

einstein