Islamists have it right on this!

[AlexBC]

And it continues.

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/maldives-teenager-faces-lashing-pre-marital-sex-065550116.html

 

[tessiewebb]

Yep. I actually started a thread on this earlier today. Not all Muslims would do the same but this situation is just disgusting.

It's a little bit of semantics but the word "ferverent" is a dangerous one. Ferverent patriotism turns to nationalism. Ferverent worship...can lead to a 14 year old illiterate downs syndrome girl to be subjected to this.

Yes, that is probably where I got the link. It fit in so well with this thread, I hope you don't mind. I disagree that "fervent worship" lead to 14 yr old being persecuted. It is the point of the worship that led there, not its fervency. Worship the enemy of humankind, you get humans being enemies of mankind.

 

[AlexBC]

Yes, that is probably where I got the link. It fit in so well with this thread, I hope you don't mind. I disagree that "fervent worship" lead to 14 yr old being persecuted. It is the point of the worship that led there, not its fervency. Worship the enemy of humankind, you get humans being enemies of mankind.

Gah. Why do I keep typing "ferverent"?!

Sorry, who do you refer to when you say "the enemy of humankind"?

 

[tessiewebb]

Gah. Why do I keep typing "ferverent"?!

Sorry, who do you refer to when you say "the enemy of humankind"?

Alex, are you not familiar with the Bible? No sarcasm intended, I'm just surprised by the request for clarification. I was referring to satan, of course, and those who are of the "anti-Christ" spirit. As is anyone/anything who/that denies Jesus is the Christ and the Son of the Living God.

 

[AlexBC]

Alex, are you not familiar with the Bible? No sarcasm intended, I'm just surprised by the request for clarification. I was referring to satan, of course, and those who are of the "anti-Christ" spirit. As is anyone/anything who/that denies Jesus is the Christ and the Son of the Living God.

But the Muslims don't worship Satan. You can argue that they pretty much worship the same god you do

That's what I meant by clarification.

And saying anyone who does not agree with you is aligned with the ultimate evil in your religion is a hop, skip and a jump from the same attitudes that some of the extremist Muslims have.

 

[mcgyver]

If Muslims use threats to convert people, those muslims will be responsible for creating people who say on their tongue, what is not in their hearts otherwise known as Hypocrites.
Forbiden in Both Christianity and Islam.

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." -Hitchens.

I don't remember, an army of Muslims went to Malaysia or Indonesia.

I wanted to take a moment and respond to this...

First of all, you're correct in that there was no Muslim army invading Malaysia or Indonesia in the traditional sense...

And the assertion that Muslims are fervent in their desire to convert the world to Islam is also correct.

But in history (I think) the reason(s) behind their fervency is found, and it is a scary thing IMO.

You know, we often speak of the Crusades in a disparaging manner...but yet the crusades were in direct response to Muslim aggression. Would it be surprising to discover that the vast majority of modern Muslim nations were "converted" at the point of the sword?

Here you go:

Syria 637 Jordan, Lebanon and Palestine 630 AD Armenia and Egypt 639

North Africa, Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco 652-665 AD

Spain 711 AD

Southern France 732 AD (Checked at the Battle of Tours)

Sicily 850 AD

Southern Italy 827 AD

Turkish borders 900 AD

Armenia and Georgia 1050 AD

Central Turkey 1070 AD

Greece 1300 AD

Bulgaria, Serbia and the Balkans 1400 AD

Constantinople Siege 717-718 Fall to Turks 1453 AD

I think that it is interesting to note that the majority of Muslim scholars at the time (and probably today also though I doubt it is as publicly proclaimed) divide the world into 2 categories: the Abode of Peace (Dar Al-Salaam) and the Abode of War (Dar Al-Harb). The lands controlled by Muslims belong to the Abode of Peace, while those who have not yet submitted to Islam belong to the Abode of War until they are "utterly subdued."

Islam's fervency has come from a desire to dominate the world under the banner of Islam...and I don't see that this has changed at all.

 

[reba]

But the Muslims don't worship Satan. You can argue that they pretty much worship the same god you do

That's what I meant by clarification.

And saying anyone who does not agree with you is aligned with the ultimate evil in your religion is a hop, skip and a jump from the same attitudes that some of the extremist Muslims have.

Only those who do not know God would argue such.
Saying something and using violance is not even close.

 

[AlexBC]

Only those who do not know God would argue such.
Saying something and using violance is not even close.

I'm not talking about Christianity. I mean that any religion that aligns outsiders with an ultimate evil can become just as extreme once the societal constraints that keep it moderate are removed.

 

[tessiewebb]

But the Muslims don't worship Satan. You can argue that they pretty much worship the same god you do

That's what I meant by clarification.

And saying anyone who does not agree with you is aligned with the ultimate evil in your religion is a hop, skip and a jump from the same attitudes that some of the extremist Muslims have.

AlexBC, you'll have to forgive me but your post touched a nerve and I have to respond, but please keep in mind it is not your post only that causes me to have to answer in this way: FIRST, it is not who agrees or disagrees with me that makes them aligned with evil. It is those aligned against God and His people that are evil. If you have a problem with that statement, take it up with Him. Second, I'm very concerned for all those who consider speaking against those who want to kill you, me and our brothers and sisters in Christ as evil is politically or in any other way wrong! How absolutely blind can you be? Unless you want to become a convert, you will DIE if Muslims have their way, how much stronger can I say it? I'm weary to my soul with this continuous harping on my "attitude" and "do you want to behave as they do" idiocies, ok??

AT LEAST, take the time to read up on Muslim ways and means in the world today before you oppose posts disagreeing with their violent, sickening, heretical, lying ways!

You know, I read about "Hitler's idiots" not long ago and in the article the writer equated those who pander to the Muslim agenda to those who hummed along with Hitler. In the days of Hitler, there was not a lot from Christians opposing him, though many Christians and others gave their lives defending and hiding the Jews. It took the US and other countries' military forces to bring his reign of terror to an end. What will it take to stop the Muslims from taking over and enforcing sharia law? Huh? What will it take? And since it's being called a "religious" war, why are Christians pandering to the take over??? Why are we not joining together to speak out against it and praying together to stop the takeover? The division in the complacent western church over this issue is heart-rending! I have no doubt that those in countries where they are being tortured, killed and imprisoned for their faith in Jesus Christ are asking and thinking the same thing!

Ah! I can't even go on...may God have mercy on His people!

 

[Hammer]

Don't worry, Islamists won't be able to take away the freedom of the British people. The UK government has already done that, including banning Anjem Choudary's organization for its beliefs.

 

[tessiewebb]

Don't worry, Islamists won't be able to take away the freedom of the British people. The UK government has already done that, including banning Anjem Choudary's organization for its beliefs.

Really? Are the women of UK forced to wear burkahs? Are they allowed to move about without a male escort? Is Choudary in prison? Has he been crucified, beheaded or otherwise killed for speaking his beliefs? On the interview I saw he was sitting in a park speaking his piece with Englanders within hearing distance and I saw not one policeman or other "government" official shut him down. In fact, the UK government, like the American, seems to be in a fawning position with the Islamists. Oh, that he and others like him were "banned" for their stealth and violence tactics. Or, at the very least that there were more of an outcry in UK and America and all over the world against Islamists' bullying tactics.

Where is the outcry? Where is the response from Christians? All I hear is "can't we all just get along"! And this in the face of the Islamists declaration of "no negotiation, no peace, nothing will satisfy but that sharia law become worldwide law". The world has already all but surrendered to the Islamic takeover. When it comes to your door, what will you do then?

 

[Hammer]

Really? Are the women of UK forced to wear burkahs? Are they allowed to move about without a male escort? Is Choudary in prison? Has he been crucified, beheaded or otherwise killed for speaking his beliefs? On the interview I saw he was sitting in a park speaking his piece with Englanders within hearing distance and I saw not one policeman or other "government" official shut him down. In fact, the UK government, like the American, seems to be in a fawning position with the Islamists. Oh, that he and others like him were "banned" for their stealth and violence tactics. Or, at the very least that there were more of an outcry in UK and America and all over the world against Islamists' bullying tactics.

Where is the outcry? Where is the response from Christians? All I hear is "can't we all just get along"! And this in the face of the Islamists declaration of "no negotiation, no peace, nothing will satisfy but that sharia law become worldwide law". The world has already all but surrendered to the Islamic takeover. When it comes to your door, what will you do then?

The only reason that women in the UK aren't forced to wear burkas is because the tyrants who run the UK don't like burkas. Members of the UK government want to ban burkas, as is already the case in neighboring France. And, in fact, the UK government has argued in court that Christians do not have a right to wear religious symbols (you might not respect the rights of a woman who wants to wear a burka, but how about a cross?). It seems Russians care more about religous freedom than the UK government does.

Choudary hasn't been beheaded because the UK doesn't have the death penalty, not because the UK has any tolerance for freedom of speech or religion. I don't know why you want to defend the UK's government prohibition against private people from expressing their religious beliefs, even if you object to those beliefs.

That interview you saw was in 2010, right before the government came down on him.

I'm more worried about the tyrants that rule over us now than those you fear will rule us in the future. Hating Islam is really popular in Christian circles right now, but Islamists are politically powerless in western countries.

 

[tessiewebb]

I don't know why you want to defend the UK's government prohibition against private people from expressing their religious beliefs, even if you object to those beliefs.

I'm more worried about the tyrants that rule over us now than those you fear will rule us in the future. Hating Islam is really popular in Christian circles right now, but Islamists are politically powerless in western countries.

First, I'm not defneding any government, UK's or any other. Secondly, you, sir, are misinformed. "Hating Islam" is not popular anywhere, let alone in Christian circles. Hating Christianity, however, is growing rapidly in popularity.



You have a group in the UK that is adamantly against the Islamization of UK which is shut down by your government at every turn. And politicians that speak in this way, for instance 3/19/12's issue of London's Telegraph and I quote in part:

"Ken Livingstone has promised to turn London into a “beacon†for the words of the Prophet Mohammed in a sermon at one of the capital’s most controversial mosques. Mr Livingstone, Labour’s candidate for mayor of London, pledged to “educate the mass of Londoners†in Islam, saying: “That will help to cement our city as a beacon that demonstrates the meaning of the words of the Prophet.†Mr Livingstone described Mohammed’s words in his last sermon as “an agenda for all humanity.â€

He praised the Prophet’s last sermon, telling his audience: “I want to spend the next four years making sure that every non-Muslim in London knows and understands [its] words and message.†He also promised to “make your life a bit easier financially.â€

Mr Livingstone was speaking at last Friday’s Jummah prayer at the North London Central Mosque, also known as Finsbury Park Mosque, formerly controlled by the terrorist recruiter Abu Hamza...." He lost in 2012, thank God.


Or check this out: http://www.worldnewstribune.com/201...aken-root-in-europe-and-is-coming-to-america/


You think you have a restrictive government now? Let sharia law become your country's law and you will truly see restriction.


And for you who believe America should be "liberal" towards the Islamists, here is what "jummah" prayer is about. BTW, this was written by Dr. Zuhdi Jasser, a devout Muslim and the Founder and President of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy:


The leaders of this event (Democratic National Convention Sept 2012)– Jibril Hough and Imam Siraj Wahhaj [are not] moderates. They are radicals. These individuals embrace Islamist supremacy and have demonstrated support for radical ideologies.
A quick Google search by the DNC would have shown them that Hough and Wahhaj are leaders in the separatist American Islamist movement. While they may be able to get a few thousand Muslims to attend the event, they are NOT going to be mainstream Muslims. Most will likely come from Hough and Wahhaj’s radical networks that have long been entrenched in the Charlotte area. Make no mistake they are part of the Islamist movement.
[...]
Their jummah (group) prayer is…about empowering their Islamist and MB sympathetic groups into the very fabric of the political system so that Americans become anesthetized. We need American Muslims to speak up and marginalize these radicals. The DNC needs to understand and reject them because of their radical history and ideas."

Read more: http://blog.beliefnet.com/watchwoma...lieve-the-radicals-invited.html#ixzz26GNaY4hx
​

 

[Hammer]

And politicians that speak in this way, for instance 3/19/12's issue of London's Telegraph and I quote in part:

"Ken Livingstone has promised to turn London into a “beacon†for the words of the Prophet Mohammed in a sermon at one of the capital’s most controversial mosques. Mr Livingstone, Labour’s candidate for mayor of London, pledged to “educate the mass of Londoners†in Islam, saying: “That will help to cement our city as a beacon that demonstrates the meaning of the words of the Prophet.†Mr Livingstone described Mohammed’s words in his last sermon as “an agenda for all humanity.â€

Ken Livingstone is a white Atheist pandering for votes. And, saying to Muslims that he wants to make London a beacon for Muslims is not the same as saying he wants the UK to be Muslim. And, he lost the election.

Muslims have zero political power in the US and the UK.

Hatred is Islam is bringing more Muslims to the west and hurting Christian freedom. For example, those wars the US is behind in the middle east creates hundreds of thousands of Muslim refugees, many of them taken in by the US and the UK.

 

[tessiewebb]

Ken Livingstone is a white Atheist pandering for votes. And, saying to Muslims that he wants to make London a beacon for Muslims is not the same as saying he wants the UK to be Muslim. And, he lost the election.

Muslims have zero political power in the US and the UK.

Hatred is Islam is bringing more Muslims to the west and hurting Christian freedom. For example, those wars the US is behind in the middle east creates hundreds of thousands of Muslim refugees, many of them taken in by the US and the UK.

Livingstone might be all you say, I wouldn't know that, but he most certainly was inviting the Muslims into UK. And, if as you say, he was pandering for votes, to whom was he pandering if not to Muslim voters? That does not equate to "zero political power".

The war the US is fighting in Muslim countries is done at a tremendous cost to US citizens, both those who fight and those who foot the bills. Yet, our own government has "welcomed", in far too many ways, the Islamists who, even as we speak, are plotting and strategizing how to take over the world.

Poor refugees. Many of them are fleeing from their own countrymen who kill, behead, crucify and torture them as readily as they would anyone else who disagrees with the Islamist agenda. Among the refugees are the ones who adhere to the Muslim agenda. Not only so but those are set on making all the world a "caliphate" of Islamism.

And, as you said, many are "taken in" by the US and UK, in more ways than one.

 

[Hammer]

Livingstone might be all you say, I wouldn't know that, but he most certainly was inviting the Muslims into UK.

As an Atheist, it's in Livingstone's interest to dilute what little Christian influence still exists in the UK with Muslim influence. "Multiculturalism" is a very effective tool of Atheists to promote an Atheistic society.

And, if as you say, he was pandering for votes, to whom was he pandering if not to Muslim voters? That does not equate to "zero political power".

Remember, Livingston lost the election. Besides, I didn't have in mind voting, I had in mind ruling. E.g. our president is Christian (nominally, anyway). Our Supreme Court has several Catholics, three Jews, zero Protestants, and zero Muslims. Oh wait, we did have our first Muslim in Congress in 2007, Keith Ellison. Sorry, my oversight. Hmmm, he's not much of Muslim. He's an African American born into a Christian family and married to a Christian wife. He explains his conversion as one of social justice. In other words, he thinks Christianity is the white man's religion. No doubt, he was inspired by Lewis Farrakhan.

Poor refugees. Many of them are fleeing from their own countrymen who kill, behead, crucify and torture them as readily as they would anyone else who disagrees with the Islamist agenda. Among the refugees are the ones who adhere to the Muslim agenda. Not only so but those are set on making all the world a "caliphate" of Islamism.

You're sounding disingenuous. These are war refugees, not people seeking asylum from Islamic culture. The Iraq war resulted in 2 million people fleeing Iraq. The US government has been busy quietly relocating some of them in the US. Wars in Libya and Syria, stoked by the US, also has created many refugees. Also, the US war in Afghanistan is making refugees. I'm certain that our leaders are making plans to let in some of the 200,000 (and counting) refugees from Syria.

 

[tessiewebb]

As an Atheist, it's in Livingstone's interest to dilute what little Christian influence still exists in the UK with Muslim influence. "Multiculturalism" is a very effective tool of Atheists to promote an Atheistic society.

Remember, Livingston lost the election. Besides, I didn't have in mind voting, I had in mind ruling. E.g. our president is Christian...

You're sounding disingenuous. These are war refugees, not people seeking asylum from Islamic culture. The Iraq war resulted in 2 million people fleeing Iraq. The US government has been busy quietly relocating some of them in the US. Wars in Libya and Syria, stoked by the US, also has created many refugees. Also, the US war in Afghanistan is making refugees. I'm certain that our leaders are making plans to let in some of the 200,000 (and counting) refugees from Syria.

Actually you are sounding anti-American. As is most of the world, it seems, so where is the UK military in all this? And as usual with people who don't like America, you are saying America has started these "wars" with no real purpose other than whatever you think it is. And if you think the refugees are all innocent victims of US "aggression", think again! Many in America are knowledgeable that as we allow the "refugees" in we are also letting in those who have declared America the "Great Satan" and are dedicated to it's destruction. How's that for humanitarianism?

If you even dream that Islamists are not, even as we speak, plotting to take over UK government and bring about sharia law, you are truly living in a fantasy world. They themselves declare it to be so and openly at that, and people are so blind as to think the ones so declaring are mere dreamers.

 

[jwoods4290]

Where is the outcry? Where is the response from Christians? All I hear is "can't we all just get along"! And this in the face of the Islamists declaration of "no negotiation, no peace, nothing will satisfy but that sharia law become worldwide law". The world has already all but surrendered to the Islamic takeover. When it comes to your door, what will you do then?

sorry but i'm going to ask you to speak for your self if your part of the group that says " i surrender"

I will fight forever on the side of jesus, if it costs me my head, that's fine.. my spiritual being is more beautiful anyways, and they can never have my soul as it belongs to jesus.

I will never a day in my life surrender to someone who does not believe in jesus or god. I will only surrender my self TO god and jesus. As far as i'm breathing and living here on earth, i do what i must, i save as many souls as i can, and i will continue to fight for the being of christ. Good luck on those people who wish to force other belief's on me, mine as well not even try and to take my head while your at it.

As long as i have the lord on my side, i fear no one nor nothing but them my self. also, many forget, the lord will take care of our problems. he will not allow people to take away what he has given us, right now, i believe god is doing all he can to save as many souls as he can, before he unleashes his true power amongest those who wish to destroy it.

All i can say is, when the day comes and tribulation is over, i hope to see satan in that fire pit, as i will fight on the side of jesus forever, and nothing can stop that.

 

[tessiewebb]

sorry but i'm going to ask you to speak for your self if your part of the group that says " i surrender"

I will fight forever on the side of jesus, if it costs me my head, that's fine.. my spiritual being is more beautiful anyways, and they can never have my soul as it belongs to jesus.

I will never a day in my life surrender to someone who does not believe in jesus or god. I will only surrender my self TO god and jesus. As far as i'm breathing and living here on earth, i do what i must, i save as many souls as i can, and i will continue to fight for the being of christ. Good luck on those people who wish to force other belief's on me, mine as well not even try and to take my head while your at it.

As long as i have the lord on my side, i fear no one nor nothing but them my self. also, many forget, the lord will take care of our problems. he will not allow people to take away what he has given us, right now, i believe god is doing all he can to save as many souls as he can, before he unleashes his true power amongest those who wish to destroy it.

All i can say is, when the day comes and tribulation is over, i hope to see satan in that fire pit, as i will fight on the side of jesus forever, and nothing can stop that.

Good, then we will be in the fight. God has stated what will happen and that is the way it will be. He has let us know what will happen in the end times and we know the happy outcome for those of us who trust and love Him.

The fight may be to the death of "losing our heads"; but Christians who are not awake to the sounds of alarm are like watchmen who fall asleep at their posts. Just because the enemy may appear to be winning does not mean we are to sing "que sera, sera, whatever will be, will be". The future IS ours to see, it is given to the friends of Jesus to know what the Father is doing. And to sound the alarm.

 

[abide]

Good, then we will be in the fight. God has stated what will happen and that is the way it will be. He has let us know what will happen in the end times and we know the happy outcome for those of us who trust and love Him.

The fight may be to the death of "losing our heads"; but Christians who are not awake to the sounds of alarm are like watchmen who fall asleep at their posts. Just because the enemy may appear to be winning does not mean we are to sing "que sera, sera, whatever will be, will be". The future IS ours to see, it is given to the friends of Jesus to know what the Father is doing. And to sound the alarm.

Thanks...