Isolating reality from 'demonic'

[Classik]

At times I get worried when people blame it all on demons. Something happens and someone calls: demons! That's strange.

Not always evil forces.

Wet dream = demonic
failure = demonic (in some cases)
bad dream = demonic (in some cases tho)
etc etc etc

Is reality also demonic?

 

[Aardverk]

This question really does have a sad and serious side to it.

Thousands of people have been executed or persecuted as witches. It is still going on in some African countries, even to small children.

When Europe was effectively ruled as a theocracy, the 'witch-finders' were virtually judge, jury and executioner. The priests dispensed 'justice' with no appeal to anyone but God, who didn't intervene, thereby 'confirming' that the priests were 'right'!

Claims for demonic possession or demonic influence are just as nebulous as those wicked claims for witches. If only people would learn the lessons from history - not to jump to silly conclusions - this question would not have its serious implications.

 

[JLB]

This question really does have a sad and serious side to it.

Thousands of people have been executed or persecuted as witches. It is still going on in some African countries, even to small children.

When Europe was effectively ruled as a theocracy, the 'witch-finders' were virtually judge, jury and executioner. The priests dispensed 'justice' with no appeal to anyone but God, who didn't intervene, thereby 'confirming' that the priests were 'right'!

Claims for demonic possession or demonic influence are just as nebulous as those wicked claims for witches. If only people would learn the lessons from history - not to jump to silly conclusions - this question would not have its serious implications.

While I appreciate a clear call for balance in all things, I must say that the flip side to your response is -

If a person does not belong to God because he or she has been redeemed by the precious blood of Jesus, then he or she "belongs" to Satan, and Satan has every right to influence that person the way he wants.

So, it is no wonder that much of what goes on in the world today is the result of Satan's influence through his people.


JLB

 

[Claudya]

People love to blame their issues on demons. Because it's a source outside of oneself (so what ever the problem is, they can claim it's not their fault, it's a demon that forced them to sin). Or because if some problem (like mental health issues, depression, addiction and such) is caused by demons there is an easy solution: just get an exorcism (protestants prefere the word "deliverance" instead of exorcism) and you're gonna be free and happy. The alternative would be a long and grueling therapy and growth process that takes much more time and hard work to show success. So you can't blame people if they prefere the easy and fast spiritual way.
And the third point is that being possessed or oppressed may look a lot more interesting than a boring earthly problem. Many people have a secret fascination with dark and occult or magical things, because those things contrast our dull everyday lifes.

I'm not saying there is no demonic influence in our world. But many people's "demons" are more of the mental and earthly kind than of the spiritual.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Most problems are demonic, but not in the sense that Claudya has spoken of. She is correct, most of the problems lie within the person. But that is because that person has literally invited Satan into their lives without knowing it. They have tolerated within themselves -- given themselves permission, if you will -- unresolved anger, unjustified arrogance, unremitted sin. Those things fester, grow, infect the mind and the heart, until one day that person is so far removed from God they feel hopeless and out of control. Left unsettled, these issues harden the heart and prevent any consideration of repentance. Unless God sends someone to that person to show unconditional love and support, or unless a tragedy or upheaval occurs within that life, there is no hope. That is what most demonic influence or possession looks like.

I'd suggest Frank Peretti's novels This Present Darkness and Piercing the Darkness for a solid biblical view of what this looks like.

 

[farouk]

...and what about the 'witch doctors' that demand that foreign policy be a certain way, which countries ought to be bombed, nuked, etc? and then if anyone queries them, then they are being unpatriotic?

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

...and what about the 'witch doctors' that demand that foreign policy be a certain way, which countries ought to be bombed, nuked, etc? and then if anyone queries them, then they are being unpatriotic?

 

[farouk]

Folk on the media, in the pulpit, etc. that lie about foreign countries and why they should be bombed...

And then if anyone dares to challenge them, then, Oh, you're being unpatriotic...

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Folk on the media, in the pulpit, etc. that lie about foreign countries and why they should be bombed...

OK. But what has that got to do with individual behavior based on worldly or satanic influences?

And what people in the media and in the pulpit lie about other nations and say they should be bombed?

 

[farouk]

OK. But what has that got to do with individual behavior based on worldly or satanic influences?

this: I guess I was also thinking collective hysteria, as well as behavior on an individual level.

 

[Aardverk]

Most problems are demonic......... because that person has literally invited Satan into their lives without knowing it.

Both of these comments sound like they would have been very popular in Salem or currently in several African nations. Do either of you want to offer any evidence for your views or should they be dismissed the way that most (all?) such claims should be dismissed (twcbawecbdwe)?

How many of those poor African children do you really think were witches or possessed by demons? All of them? Any of them? None of them? It strikes me that if we do not condemn the criminals who tortured and killed those children 'in the name of Christ', we are little better than those criminals.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Both of these comments sound like they would have been very popular in Salem or currently in several African nations.

That's probably because you don't understand them.

The issue is not literally entertaining demons. It is opening one's life to evil. Anything that stands against God would best be described as evil. We tend to think of the worst of this world as evil. But lies, gossip, improperly expressed anger, greed, etc. are evil as well. When one engages in any of these things, they are practicing evil, and invite Satan's influence into their lives. He is, after all, the god of this world and is able to influence people through evil practices, even though they seem to be innocuous from the world's viewpoints.

Says the world: "Problems, yes. But 'evil?' No way!"

But anything, any sin, drawing the Christian, or for that matter, away from attention to Christ is evil. Accept that. Reject it. Doesn't change it either way.

 

[Aardverk]

...........The issue is not literally entertaining demons. It is opening one's life to evil. .............

Now that makes far more sense.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Now that makes far more sense.

Wow, we're actually getting along here, 'Verk!

I should have said, "you don't understand them because I didn't mine as clear as I could have," which I tried to correct with that last post.

 

[Aardverk]

Wow, we're actually getting along here, 'Verk!

I should have said, "you don't understand them because I didn't mine as clear as I could have," which I tried to correct with that last post.

You never know 'disconnected, it could actually be the case that we are both perfectly reasonable people separated only by carelessly worded posts

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

You never know 'disconnected, it could actually be the case that we are both perfectly reasonable people separated only by carelessly worded posts

Well said!

 

[Kaliani]

Most problems are demonic, but not in the sense that Claudya has spoken of. She is correct, most of the problems lie within the person. But that is because that person has literally invited Satan into their lives without knowing it. They have tolerated within themselves -- given themselves permission, if you will -- unresolved anger, unjustified arrogance, unremitted sin.

My thoughts too.

 

[Grazer]

I wrote a piece on similar lines a while back;

http://evidence2hope.webs.com/apps/blog/show/14094981-the-devils-deception

 

[Kaliani]

I wrote a piece on similar lines a while back;

http://evidence2hope.webs.com/apps/blog/show/14094981-the-devils-deception

I quite like the way it is written. But am so tired just now, will finish it as soon as I can think in English again!

 

[Kaliani]

So you can't blame people if they prefere the easy and fast spiritual way.

But it's so IMMATURE to wilfully take all the wrong turns, then when you land in a ditch, just show up for one electrifying deliverance service, and instantly erase ALL the consequences of your whole life's decisions up till now.

How insufferably entitled!

NO ONE is exempt from working out their salvation in fear and trembling. Or if need be, in seemingly dull and mundane therapy sessions.