Israel's Rejection

[for_his_glory]

Israel lost her right to be called Gods chosen people, (God did save a faithful remnant), as they fell into idolatry worshiping other gods as they allowed themselves to fall from Gods grace as they followed the lust of their own hearts as they practiced Judaism, 1 Kings 9:1-9. God’s judgment against them led them to be captured, 605 – 537 B.C., by Nebuchadnezzar and taken into Babylon for seventy years while Nebuchadnezzar’s army killed many Jews in Judah and Jerusalem destroying the whole city of Jerusalem including the first Temple that was built through King Solomon’s reign in Jerusalem.

The second Temple was built under Ezra’s leadership and Israel continued practicing Judaism and their Temple was desecrated as part of an effort to impose Greek-oriented culture and customs on the entire population. Roman rule refurbished the temple as Herod, Romans vassal king, rules the land of Israel. In 70 A.D. the Temple is once again destroyed. The Temple Mount was taken over in 691 A.D. as the Arab nation built the Dome of the Rock and there has not been any other Temple built since that time on the original Temple Mount.

God gave Israel 490 years to repent. They were set free from Babylon when the Medes and Persian conquered Babylon (Chaldean's) around 538 B.C. They were allowed back in the land and to rebuild the city of Jerusalem, however, they still did not repent for their sin of idol worshiping and they continued to receive punishment from God as the kingdom was taken away and eventually taken over by the Roman Empire. Malachi Chapter 1-4.

The 490 years were up and many of the Jews not only did not repent but they killed the very Messiah they had been waiting for as well as in 24 A.D. they made an opened display of rejecting the Gospel message as they stoned Stephen being the final messenger that was sent to give them their last chance to repent. The Jews were now rejected as God’s chosen people and were no different from the Gentiles as from that time forth each individual, Jew and Gentile has to make their own decision to accept or reject Jesus as Lord and Savior, John 3:3-7; Romans 10:9, 10.

The disciples were called first to preach to the Jews, Matthew 10:6, and Paul was called to preach to the Gentiles, Acts 22:21. God has saved a remnant out of the twelve tribes of Israel even up to a thousand generations that have always been faithful to Him, Exodus 20:1-6; Psalms 105:7, 8, but those who have yet to accept Jesus as Messiah God will continue to cut them off.

2 Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

[RandyK]

Israel lost her right to be called Gods chosen people

With respect to the Law yes, Israel was called "Not My People". Hosea 1. But with respect to Grace no, Israel can indeed still be called "My People." Hosea 2.

Hos 1.8 After she had weaned Lo-Ruhamah, Gomer had another son. 9 Then the Lord said, “Call him Lo-Ammi (which means “not my people”), for you are not my people, and I am not your God... 10 “Yet the Israelites will be like the sand on the seashore, which cannot be measured or counted. In the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ they will be called ‘children of the living God.’

Rom 9.23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

So God has called both Jews and Gentiles by Grace, and the failure of the Jews under the Law has not removed God's promise to Abraham to have a nation of faith.

According to Paul, Israel's national salvation will take place at the coming of the "Deliverer." In the meantime, salvation in Israel takes place, as you said, only for a remnant.

I know you're amillennial, and I respect that. But this is why I'm premillennial, because it appears Paul tells us that the work of saving the Jewish society is going to begin with Christ's return. You undoubtedly have an answer for that, but this is my position...

Rom 11.26 and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written:
“The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob."

 

[jasonc]

The problem with that above post is that

1. The prince of Israel atones for his sins with animal sacrifices.but jesus is a king see the versus on this
2.gentiles can't enter into the presence of Jesus .only men who are circumcised
3..any priest must be the son of zadok.
4. The Jews who believe today aren't able to recieve tribal land ,which I am . My username is traceable via synagogue records back to two hundred years
5.the law of Moses is in full effect in those versus but are taught they are just worship

 

[for_his_glory]

With respect to the Law yes, Israel was called "Not My People". Hosea 1. But with respect to Grace no, Israel can indeed still be called "My People." Hosea 2.

Hos 1.8 After she had weaned Lo-Ruhamah, Gomer had another son. 9 Then the Lord said, “Call him Lo-Ammi (which means “not my people”), for you are not my people, and I am not your God... 10 “Yet the Israelites will be like the sand on the seashore, which cannot be measured or counted. In the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ they will be called ‘children of the living God.’

Rom 9.23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

So God has called both Jews and Gentiles by Grace, and the failure of the Jews under the Law has not removed God's promise to Abraham to have a nation of faith.

According to Paul, Israel's national salvation will take place at the coming of the "Deliverer." In the meantime, salvation in Israel takes place, as you said, only for a remnant.

I know you're amillennial, and I respect that. But this is why I'm premillennial, because it appears Paul tells us that the work of saving the Jewish society is going to begin with Christ's return. You undoubtedly have an answer for that, but this is my position...

Rom 11.26 and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written:
“The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob."

After Solomon's death his son Rehoboam became King and those ten Northern tribes (Israel/Dan/Ephraim) rebelled against King Rehoboam and followed after Jeroboam up North causing a division of the north and south Kingdom. Only the tribe of Judah (Judah) and the tribe of Benjamin (Judah) stayed Loyal to King Rehoboam in the southern Kingdom for they kept Gods commandments as they knew David was the lineage of the promised Messiah as it was prophesied of the prophets of God.

For almost two centuries the two Kingdoms where divided, but a remnant of the ten tribes soon came back to Judah after following Jeroboam as he turned the northern Kingdom into idol worshipers. This is why God divorced them of the northern kingdom, but has left room for them to repent and turn back to Him, Jeremiah 3:6-25; Deuteronomy 29

I believe once Jesus returns thedoor of salvation will be closed forever as He returns for His own.

 

[RandyK]

After Solomon's death his son Rehoboam became King and those ten Northern tribes (Israel/Dan/Ephraim) rebelled against King Rehoboam and followed after Jeroboam up North causing a division of the north and south Kingdom. Only the tribe of Judah (Judah) and the tribe of Benjamin (Judah) stayed Loyal to King Rehoboam in the southern Kingdom for they kept Gods commandments as they knew David was the lineage of the promised Messiah as it was prophesied of the prophets of God.

For almost two centuries the two Kingdoms where divided, but a remnant of the ten tribes soon came back to Judah after following Jeroboam as he turned the northern Kingdom into idol worshipers. This is why God divorced them of the northern kingdom, but has left room for them to repent and turn back to Him, Jeremiah 3:6-25; Deuteronomy 29

I believe once Jesus returns thedoor of salvation will be closed forever as He returns for His own.

Yes, that is the amillennial view. I never heard anything other than that in the way I was raised in the Lutheran Church.

But Dispensationalism has become a very loud voice. I'm not really a Dispensationalist, but I have to admit that they don't seem to be wrong about their view that Israel must still recover.

Of course, this can't be proved. We'll have to wait until Christ comes back to see, and then it will be too late! ;)

 

[for_his_glory]

The problem with that above post is that

1. The prince of Israel atones for his sins with animal sacrifices.but jesus is a king see the versus on this
2.gentiles can't enter into the presence of Jesus .only men who are circumcised
3..any priest must be the son of zadok.
4. The Jews who believe today aren't able to recieve tribal land ,which I am . My username is traceable via synagogue records back to two hundred years
5.the law of Moses is in full effect in those versus but are taught they are just worship

It really doesn't matter if they receive tribal land for when Christ returns this present heaven and earth will pass away, 1Peter 3:10-14.

 

[RandyK]

The problem with that above post is that

1. The prince of Israel atones for his sins with animal sacrifices.but jesus is a king see the versus on this
2.gentiles can't enter into the presence of Jesus .only men who are circumcised
3..any priest must be the son of zadok.
4. The Jews who believe today aren't able to recieve tribal land ,which I am . My username is traceable via synagogue records back to two hundred years
5.the law of Moses is in full effect in those versus but are taught they are just worship

There are lots of "above posts," Jason! Which one are you questioning?

 

[for_his_glory]

Yes, that is the amillennial view. I never heard anything other than that in the way I was raised in the Lutheran Church.

But Dispensationalism has become a very loud voice. I'm not really a Dispensationalist, but I have to admit that they don't seem to be wrong about their view that Israel must still recover.

Of course, this can't be proved. We'll have to wait until Christ comes back to see, and then it will be too late! ;)

I have really never been into all these different "ism" terminologies nor never knew they all existed until I became a member here 13 years ago. There are many things that I have to look up in order to know where others are coming from in their understandings. I can only go by what scripture teaches, along with the history of the four Empires and a lot of praying and asking the Holy Spirit teach me either directly or working through others.

 

[RandyK]

I have really never been into all these different "ism" terminologies nor never knew they all existed until I became a member here 13 years ago. There are many things that I have to look up in order to know where others are coming from in their understandings. I can only go by what scripture teaches, along with the history of the four Empires and a lot of praying and asking the Holy Spirit teach me either directly or working through others.

Well, I share your love of the subject. One of the main reasons I got onto Usenet many years ago was to test my beliefs against possible opposition/alternative views. I think it's a reasonably good practice?

 

[for_his_glory]

Well, I share your love of the subject. One of the main reasons I got onto Usenet many years ago was to test my beliefs against possible opposition/alternative views. I think it's a reasonably good practice?

It's only when we Spiritually discern and test the spirits that are speaking is to know that of what is true or false, 1John 4:1-6. Just like Satan infiltrated many of the Israelites to fall away from God unto these dumb idols, so the same when we take our focus off of God even after we have learned the truth of His word, Hebrews 6:4-6.

 

[Whatever]

I don't come here often, but the problem I see with most especially dispensationalists is that they don't really a Biblical theological understanding of what God is doing. They have God trying one thing and then whoops, lets try plan B and then on to C and so forth. They don't see one unfolding plan of God coming to fruition.

How do you deal with:
Mat 21:43 "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it.

Jesus is going back to the story of The Song of the Vineyard in Isaiah 5.
In verse 7 of Isaiah 5 it says:
The vineyard of the Lord Almight is the nation of Israel,
and the people of Juda are the vines he delighted in.

So in Matthew 21:33 when Jesus says:
"Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country.

He was definitly talking about Israel and its inhabitants. Farther on in verses 38 and 39 Jesus says:
38 But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, 'This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.'
39 So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him.

He is talking about Israel rejecting Him and cruficying Him.
Then in verse 40 He asks them:
Mat 21:40 "Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?"

They answer Jesus:
Mat 21:41 They said to Him, "He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons."

This is when Jesus tells them:
Mat 21:43 "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it.

He is talking about Israel.

In 1 Peter 2:9 Peter calls the Church a holy nation.

It is clear that Jesus says the Kingdom is taken from one nation and given to another nation. It doesn't sound like something temporary until some condition is met, then it goes back to the first one.

It is clear that the Ekklesia (whatever English word you want to give it) was the purpose of God from the beginning.

The Greek Ekklesia is used by Stephen in Acts of Israel in the wilderness:
Act 7:38 "This is he who was in the congregation (Ekklesia) in the wilderness with the Angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers, the one who received the living oracles to give to us.

The Ekklesia isn't something that started in the book of Acts. It was there from the beginning. Even Abel was part of the Ekklesia. He was the first martyr.
Luk 11:50 that the blood of all the prophets which was shed from the foundation of the world may be required of this generation, 51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah who perished between the altar and the temple. Yes, I say to you, it shall be required of this generation.

 

[for_his_glory]

I don't come here often, but the problem I see with most especially dispensationalists is that they don't really a Biblical theological understanding of what God is doing. They have God trying one thing and then whoops, lets try plan B and then on to C and so forth. They don't see one unfolding plan of God coming to fruition.

How do you deal with:
Mat 21:43 "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it.

Jesus is going back to the story of The Song of the Vineyard in Isaiah 5.
In verse 7 of Isaiah 5 it says:
The vineyard of the Lord Almight is the nation of Israel,
and the people of Juda are the vines he delighted in.

So in Matthew 21:33 when Jesus says:
"Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country.

He was definitly talking about Israel and its inhabitants. Farther on in verses 38 and 39 Jesus says:
38 But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, 'This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.'
39 So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him.

He is talking about Israel rejecting Him and cruficying Him.
Then in verse 40 He asks them:
Mat 21:40 "Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?"

They answer Jesus:
Mat 21:41 They said to Him, "He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons."

This is when Jesus tells them:
Mat 21:43 "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it.

He is talking about Israel.

In 1 Peter 2:9 Peter calls the Church a holy nation.

It is clear that Jesus says the Kingdom is taken from one nation and given to another nation. It doesn't sound like something temporary until some condition is met, then it goes back to the first one.

It is clear that the Ekklesia (whatever English word you want to give it) was the purpose of God from the beginning.

The Greek Ekklesia is used by Stephen in Acts of Israel in the wilderness:
Act 7:38 "This is he who was in the congregation (Ekklesia) in the wilderness with the Angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers, the one who received the living oracles to give to us.

The Ekklesia isn't something that started in the book of Acts. It was there from the beginning. Even Abel was part of the Ekklesia. He was the first martyr.
Luk 11:50 that the blood of all the prophets which was shed from the foundation of the world may be required of this generation, 51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah who perished between the altar and the temple. Yes, I say to you, it shall be required of this generation.

This reminds me of Romans 10:19-21 as we keep in mind that Dan and Ephraim turned on God going after strange idols as God allowed Israel to be taken captive by the Babylonians. They came back to Israel, but many brought back the paganism they fell into. God brought them to jealousy as the word of God went out to the Gentiles who are the other nation that believe and trust in God. Foolish Israel waiting for their Messiah to come, but will never realize they had Him put to death.