Themessengeroftruth - Yes u correct to be here in the flesh is to be absent from The Lord but let me ask u if u present with The Lord are u in heaven or asleep in Christ?
Eugene – To be present with the Lord is to be in heaven with Him. It is no longer known as Abraham’s bosom, it is paradise.
Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Jesus said to the thief on the cross in Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. Where did Jesus first go? The lower parts of the earth.
Where is paradise today? 2Co 12:4 How that he (Paul) was
caught up into paradise . .
Themessengeroftruth - N if u in heaven what about the sinners they in hell?
N if they in hell why does god talking about the rising of the dead? If their soul is dead? Once your soul is dead how can u be risen? Remember when Christ said lazurus isn't dead but sleeping n they laughed him to scorn?
Eugene – I think that you are thinking of the unrighteous in hell. They remain in such a condition until the great White Judgment of Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. Revelation 20:13. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
When we speak of those present with Christ, they are in Spirit, and their bodies will be raised when they are caught up to Christ one thousand years or so prior to the resurrection of the dead.
You may be familiar with the scripture of:
Luk 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two
men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
Luk 17:35 Two
women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Luk 17:36 Two
men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. This is not the taking of the righteous as many writers have supposed; notice Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. The taking away is those unrighteous being taken to await judgment.
The messengeroftruth - When a man dies he is asleep he is not in heaven or hell but sleeping.
Eugene – His body is asleep, but he is very much aware of his surroundings. What of those under the alter?
Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And
they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Themessengeroftruth - Once the judgment is finished n we all stand before Gods judgment sets then who ever was not saved n written will enter into hell fire.
So according to the scriptures the dead is suppose to raise first then they which are alive n remain are caught up.
Eugene – Again scripture would help to make sure we’re talking of the same incident, but I take you’re speaking of 1 Thes 4:16.17. Somehow I get the notion you’re making the resurrection of the righteous a one time event at the last trump. I’ll just paste a teaching of A.S Copley that can do more justice to this than I can.
A.S Copley
“The doctrine of the resurrection was not new. It was plainly taught in the Old Testament - Isa. 25:8; Ezek 37:12; Dan. 12:2. But that “all shall be changed,” whether they die or not, was new. Some saints will be alive when the trumpet blows, and that very blast will change their bodies into immortality, power and glory at the same moment changing the dead into incorruptibility, similarly as Ezekiel said: “The Spirit entered into me as He spoke unto me, and set me upon my feet” - Ezek. 2:2. The resurrection of all believers is called “The first resurrection,” in distinction from the resurrection of the wicked dead, or “second resurrection” - Rev. 20:14. But not all believers will be raised at exactly the same moment, or twinkle; “but every man in his own rank.” The phrase “last trump,” requires that there shall be more than one trumpet blast. The appearance of Jesus to different companies at distinct times (vs. 5-8) and the distinct visions that John had at successive times of distinct companies in heaven agree with this view, and demand the resurrection to take place at different stages. Paul's yearning for “the resurrection out from dead ones” (Phil. 3:11) and the warning of I Thes. 5:4-8 teach the same stirring truth. The “last trump,” of necessity sounds at the end of the millennium. “This corruptible and this mortal” of verse 54 includes believers on earth during the millennium, at the end of which, “death is swallowed up in victory.” Compare Isa 65:20 with 25:8. The triumphant question of verse 55 (Hos. 13:14) cannot be sounded out till the last trumpet sound has died away in eternal victory. When there is actually no more sin, there will be no more death.”
The messengeroftruth - But
Daniel 12 talks about the dead being raised when the end of the world occurs after the wrath of the little horn.
So what I'm saying is if the dead rise first don't that mean we go through the days of the little horn?
I I never said all gods saints was gonna die that is the rapture if I did forgive me. But I said all that is appointed to die in those days will be killed
For according to the scriptures there is gonna be some saints that are still alive
But many of the saints will die.
Eugene – Hopefully I can portray to you that because I don’t agree with certain doctrines, that I do not judge you. Our salvation is again based on Christ and His victory over the world, and our faith; that too given us as a gift allows us to believe on Him as our Savior.
I’m not certain the term “Dispensations” has meaning to you, but there will be special judgments to certain peoples, and times. Luk 21:24 . . Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. If we attempt to fit all the promises, or judgments to become our inheritance, we by assigning ourselves something not for us will not see the truth of rightly dividing the word of truth. Regardless of how one might think of God’s judgment, those of us in the book of life will never be erased (Rev 3:5), and portions of scripture told to the unrighteous ( those never saved) will never pertain to us; the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. (2 Cor 5:21) For he hath made him
to be sin for us, who knew no sin; . . .
