J.P. Moreland Interview

[Aero_Hudson]

Great interview with J.P. Moreland. Even covers a topic briefly that we have challenges with on this forum deeper into the interview regarding "because the Bible says so". Really am digging this guy and his books. Take a look.

http://www.conversantlife.com/theology/ ... d#continue

 

[Guest]

Great interview with J.P. Moreland. Even covers a topic briefly that we have challenges with on this former deeper into the interview regarding "because the Bible says so". Really am digging this guy and his books. Take a look.

If you like Moreland you will probably like William Lane Craig and Norman Geisler. There is also a radio show called Stand to Reason which is released as a podcast that you'll probably like. They all tend to think along the same lines.

 

[follower of Christ]

Looks like the guy is trying to teach the fallacious thought that we can 'reason' people into believing because the 'bible makes sense' or some such absurdity.
Faith in something we CANNOT actually SEE with our eyes goes beyond a book and the letters on pages therein.
Jesus said "NO MAN comes to me unless the Father draw him"...ie there is no amount of reason and logic or trying to make the bible and christianity 'sound' acceptable that will cause a man to believe it.
If the Father is not drawing a man CANNOT come...or Christ be a liar.
If the Father IS drawing then the truth will go into this persons heart and if they are open to Him then they WILL come to Him in repentance and it wont matter if the person bringing the gospel says "because the bible says so"....the person being saved WILL believe if his heart is readied.

MUCH of the reason that so many fall away from the faith is frankly because they were NEVER actually in the faith.
They were 'reasoned' into following something they didnt really understand because the Father had not laid the groundwork in their hearts or someone tried to 'reason' them into buying a religion.

I'll stick with my "bible says so" and let the Father do the rest.
That way when a person DOES come to Christ it is genuine....not just because I sold them a new religion.

 

[Aero_Hudson]

Looks like the guy is trying to teach the fallacious thought that we can 'reason' people into believing because the 'bible makes sense' or some such absurdity.
Faith in something we CANNOT actually SEE with our eyes goes beyond a book and the letters on pages therein.
Jesus said "NO MAN comes to me unless the Father draw him"...ie there is no amount of reason and logic or trying to make the bible and christianity 'sound' acceptable that will cause a man to believe it.
If the Father is not drawing a man CANNOT come...or Christ be a liar.
If the Father IS drawing then the truth will go into this persons heart and if they are open to Him then they WILL come to Him in repentance and it wont matter if the person bringing the gospel says "because the bible says so"....the person being saved WILL believe if his heart is readied.

MUCH of the reason that so many fall away from the faith is frankly because they were NEVER actually in the faith.
They were 'reasoned' into following something they didnt really understand because the Father had not laid the groundwork in their hearts or someone tried to 'reason' them into buying a religion.

I'll stick with my "bible says so" and let the Father do the rest.
That way when a person DOES come to Christ it is genuine....not just because I sold them a new religion.

Interesting. Everyone is different. I can speak for myself on how I came to Christ. It was through quite a bit of introspection, research, discussions with believing friends and finally experiences that brought me closer. I did have some logic barriers that were present and folks like JP Moreland not only help those with such barriers but they also provide sound reasoning for believers to talk with other nonbelievers as to why Christianity makes sense.

I would venture a guess that most non believers have issues with being able to "buy" into the super natural and balancing that with the natural world. Apologetics like JP here help bridge that gap. I wonder how many hundreds of folks he has helped find their way only for you to bash him because he just doesn't tell people that the bible says so, so you must comply. Until someone is a believer I would imagine that argument wouldn't be very successful.

So, considering all of that, I guess you would say my coming to Christ "was not genuine"? Is that what I am supposed to take from your post?

 

[Guest]

Aero_Hudson,

Your faith is as valid as anyone else's. Though I did not find faith in the same manner, it has been such a path which I have maintained my faith, increased, and strengthen it. If you're more "academic" and not afraid of questions and working through doubts, as I am, you might also want to look into Alister McGrath, Richard Swinburne, Alvin Plantinga, Peter Kreeft, and Nicholas Wolterstorff.

 

[Aero_Hudson]

Aero_Hudson,

Your faith is as valid as anyone else's. Though I did not find faith in the same manner, it has been such a path which I have maintained my faith, increased, and strengthen it. If you're more "academic" and not afraid of questions and working through doubts, as I am, you might also want to look into Alister McGrath, Richard Swinburne, Alvin Plantinga, Peter Kreeft, and Nicholas Wolterstorff.

Awesome! Thanks minnesota! Moreland quoted some of these very folks himself. Thanks for the expanded list. I will definitely check them out.

God bless!

 

[Guest]

Aero_Hudson,

And, if you're like me, you'll also be interested in Christian theology. The best introductory textbook (for breadth) on Christian theology, at least from a more conservative perspective, that I have come across is "The Moody Handbook of Theology" by Paul Enns. His book systematic and outlines many of the major lines in Christian thinking.

Perhaps one of the most influential theological books for me was "Decision Making and the Will of God" by Gary Friesen.

If you're interested in biblical studies, you can check out D. A. Carson, Craig Blomberg, Gordon Fee, F. F. Bruce, Bruce Metzger, and Daniel Wallace. Wallace is the Christian counterpart to Bart Erhman, and a first rate textual critic.

I could go on and on, but I'll stop. I have already given you a 6 months worth of reading.

 

[merlow]

Perhaps one of the most influential theological books for me was "Decision Making and the Will of God" by Gary Friesen.

On the website minnesota posted earlier there is an audio lesson of the same name. Greg Koukl teaches on the ideas in the book but in shorter audio lectures. The book is pretty long.

 

[Guest]

Perhaps one of the most influential theological books for me was "Decision Making and the Will of God" by Gary Friesen.

On the website minnesota posted earlier there is an audio lesson of the same name. Greg Koukl teaches on the ideas in the book but in shorter audio lectures. The book is pretty long.

Good point.

 

[Free]

Looks like the guy is trying to teach the fallacious thought that we can 'reason' people into believing because the 'bible makes sense' or some such absurdity.
Faith in something we CANNOT actually SEE with our eyes goes beyond a book and the letters on pages therein.
Jesus said "NO MAN comes to me unless the Father draw him"...ie there is no amount of reason and logic or trying to make the bible and christianity 'sound' acceptable that will cause a man to believe it.
If the Father is not drawing a man CANNOT come...or Christ be a liar.
If the Father IS drawing then the truth will go into this persons heart and if they are open to Him then they WILL come to Him in repentance and it wont matter if the person bringing the gospel says "because the bible says so"....the person being saved WILL believe if his heart is readied.

MUCH of the reason that so many fall away from the faith is frankly because they were NEVER actually in the faith.
They were 'reasoned' into following something they didnt really understand because the Father had not laid the groundwork in their hearts or someone tried to 'reason' them into buying a religion.

I'll stick with my "bible says so" and let the Father do the rest.
That way when a person DOES come to Christ it is genuine....not just because I sold them a new religion.

Actually, C.S. Lewis came to the faith through reason. Many people first believe and many others continue to believe because the Christian faith is reasonable. I would argue that more fall away from the faith because they hadn't thought through what they believe and why. Also, how is reasoning not part of "the Father laying the groundwork in their hearts"?