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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join Hidden in Him and For His Glory for discussions on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/become-a-vessel-of-honor-part-2.112306/
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James G, can you explain this post?
- Thread starter watchman F
- Start date
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Shad
“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.†(John 3:16)
“Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?†(Romans 6:3)
Notice the prepositions used in these two verses. “believes in him†(John 3:16). “baptized into Jesus Christ†and “baptized into his death†(Romans 6:3). You would think that two different Greek words would be used here wouldn’t you? Two different Greek Prepositions exist. But in these two verses, it is the same Greek word that is being used. And that Greek word means “intoâ€. Why do Bible translators translate this one Greek word differently? Interpretation. Bible translators are as guilty of interpretation as are the Bible expositors. The true translation of John 3:16 should be the same as Romans 6:3. John should be translated, “whoever believes INTO him shall not perish but have eternal lifeâ€. Do you think that this is insignificant?
“It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God— that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord." †(1Corinthians 1:30-31)
The Greek preposition that actually means “in†is used here. “in Christ Jesusâ€. How does one become “in Christ Jesusâ€? By believing and being baptized INTO Christ Jesus. Do you think that this is insignificant?
“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!†(2Corinthians 5:17)
Again, the Greek preposition that actually means “in†is used here. “if anyone is in Christâ€. How does one becme “in Christâ€? Do you think that this is significant?
JamesG
Shad
“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.†(John 3:16)
“Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?†(Romans 6:3)
Notice the prepositions used in these two verses. “believes in him†(John 3:16). “baptized into Jesus Christ†and “baptized into his death†(Romans 6:3). You would think that two different Greek words would be used here wouldn’t you? Two different Greek Prepositions exist. But in these two verses, it is the same Greek word that is being used. And that Greek word means “intoâ€. Why do Bible translators translate this one Greek word differently? Interpretation. Bible translators are as guilty of interpretation as are the Bible expositors. The true translation of John 3:16 should be the same as Romans 6:3. John should be translated, “whoever believes INTO him shall not perish but have eternal lifeâ€. Do you think that this is insignificant?
“It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God— that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord." †(1Corinthians 1:30-31)
The Greek preposition that actually means “in†is used here. “in Christ Jesusâ€. How does one become “in Christ Jesusâ€? By believing and being baptized INTO Christ Jesus. Do you think that this is insignificant?
“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!†(2Corinthians 5:17)
Again, the Greek preposition that actually means “in†is used here. “if anyone is in Christâ€. How does one becme “in Christâ€? Do you think that this is significant?
JamesG
Mysteryman
Member
- Feb 16, 2010
- 1,988
- 0
Quote James : "The Greek preposition that actually means “in†is used here. “in Christ Jesusâ€. How does one become “in Christ Jesusâ€? By believing and being baptized INTO Christ Jesus. Do you think that this is insignificant?"
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Hi James :
This statement by you, suggesting that the way in which one becomes IN Christ, is by their believing, is incorrect !
Let me ask you as to how is one baptized into Christ Jesus ?
God places us in the body when and where it pleases him. We believe after we have been chosen. Not before.
Now, there is a possibility that I might have misunderstood you. If so, please clarify .
Thanks
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Hi James :
This statement by you, suggesting that the way in which one becomes IN Christ, is by their believing, is incorrect !
Let me ask you as to how is one baptized into Christ Jesus ?
God places us in the body when and where it pleases him. We believe after we have been chosen. Not before.
Now, there is a possibility that I might have misunderstood you. If so, please clarify .
Thanks
.
Shad
“I serve Jesus by reading the Bibleâ€
I have given you the Bible. What you do with it is your concern. My service to God who I serve in my spirit has been fulfilled in regards to you.
Mysteryman
I am not a follower of John Calvin. I am in Christ.
JamesG
Shad
“I serve Jesus by reading the Bibleâ€
I have given you the Bible. What you do with it is your concern. My service to God who I serve in my spirit has been fulfilled in regards to you.
Mysteryman
I am not a follower of John Calvin. I am in Christ.
JamesG
watchman F
Member
- Feb 1, 2010
- 1,298
- 0
- Thread starter
- #31
Are you saying that God is a type of being like humanity and there are a lot of gods like there are a lot of humans?JamesG said:
Mysteryman
Member
- Feb 16, 2010
- 1,988
- 0
JamesG said:
Hi James
I still would appreciate it, if you would answer my questions please. I am trying to follow what you are saying, and it would help if you would answer the questions more specifically. Thanks
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Watchman F
““Are you saying that God is a type of being like humanity and there are a lot of gods like there are a lot of humans?â€â€
The idea of the original Trinitarian formulation is that there are three persons within the One God. Not Modalism wherein the One God takes on or reveals himself in different forms. Not polytheism, or many Gods, as if the Father is one God and Jesus Christ is another God and the Holy Spirit is another God. There is only one God in which are three persons. The idea I presented was like that, except with more persons than just three.
My idea of the nature of God includes the understanding that God is not a person, but rather a kind of Being. Judaism, Islam, and Christians such as Modalists and ant-Trinitarians such as the Jehovah's Witnesses, believe that God is a person and that there is no more than one person in God and who is God.
Humanity is created not as a specific person, but rather as a kind of being. Adam is merely the first person created in this particular kind of being. After Eve was formed from Adam, the one individual, Adam, became something more, two persons who together are humanity. One kind of being, two persons. Then God told the pair to procreate. Since then, there has been billions of persons, but still there is only one humanity, one kind of being that is humanity.
Thus if humanity is created in the image of God, then God must also be one kind of Being that is composed of many persons, just as is humanity.
Vic C brought up a number of Old Testament verses wherein the Old Testament writers obviously believed that God is a person and has God saying that he is a person. And I pointed that out in “Re: James G, can you explain this post? by JamesG on Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:16 pmâ€
My current problem now is that the Old Testament writers are referring to God as a person, not as a kind of Being. Yet, in Acts 2, Peter clearly equates Jesus Christ with Jehovah, or the God of the Old Testament that is referred to as a person. This is an inconsistency that I am waiting for God to resolve. What I said before about the nature of God is on hold pending resolution through a revelation by the inner witness of the Spirit of God.
JamesG
Watchman F
““Are you saying that God is a type of being like humanity and there are a lot of gods like there are a lot of humans?â€â€
The idea of the original Trinitarian formulation is that there are three persons within the One God. Not Modalism wherein the One God takes on or reveals himself in different forms. Not polytheism, or many Gods, as if the Father is one God and Jesus Christ is another God and the Holy Spirit is another God. There is only one God in which are three persons. The idea I presented was like that, except with more persons than just three.
My idea of the nature of God includes the understanding that God is not a person, but rather a kind of Being. Judaism, Islam, and Christians such as Modalists and ant-Trinitarians such as the Jehovah's Witnesses, believe that God is a person and that there is no more than one person in God and who is God.
Humanity is created not as a specific person, but rather as a kind of being. Adam is merely the first person created in this particular kind of being. After Eve was formed from Adam, the one individual, Adam, became something more, two persons who together are humanity. One kind of being, two persons. Then God told the pair to procreate. Since then, there has been billions of persons, but still there is only one humanity, one kind of being that is humanity.
Thus if humanity is created in the image of God, then God must also be one kind of Being that is composed of many persons, just as is humanity.
Vic C brought up a number of Old Testament verses wherein the Old Testament writers obviously believed that God is a person and has God saying that he is a person. And I pointed that out in “Re: James G, can you explain this post? by JamesG on Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:16 pmâ€
My current problem now is that the Old Testament writers are referring to God as a person, not as a kind of Being. Yet, in Acts 2, Peter clearly equates Jesus Christ with Jehovah, or the God of the Old Testament that is referred to as a person. This is an inconsistency that I am waiting for God to resolve. What I said before about the nature of God is on hold pending resolution through a revelation by the inner witness of the Spirit of God.
JamesG
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Shad
““What do you mean by divine? I know Jesus is not equal with His Father. And God is only one.â€â€
Even the Trinitarians say that “God is only oneâ€. But they also say that within the one God are three persons. The original formulation of the Trinity claimed that there is a hierarchy within the one God. The Father, then the Son, then the Holy Spirit. In that sense of hierarchy Jesus is not equal with the Father. The Father is higher on the hierarchy than Jesus. But in their nature or essence, they are equal because they are both Divine in nature. This is the formulation that is still believed by the Eastern Orthodox today. The Western Church changed that formulation so that the Father is over both the Son and the Holy Spirit equally. But the idea of a hierarchy of the Son over the Holy Spirit is still present in that the Son sends the Holy Spirit to humanity. In 1Corinthians 11:3 Paul says that the head of Christ is God. Now that could be a reference to the Father or to God in general. Either way it is true.
The word “Divine†is hard to define. It relates to the essence or nature of God. God is Divine in his nature. Humanity is a created being and is thus not Divine in nature. Humanity is created in nature. Humanity was created biologically, then given life when God breathed into the first man.
In the Trinitarian idea, Jesus is understood to have two natures that is one nature. The Divine nature comes through the Holy Spirit who came on Mary, (Matthew 1:20; Luke 1:34-35) and the human nature that comes through Mary herself. So Jesus is the God-man, the one who is both the unique Son of God and the unique son of man, having both the Divine nature and the human nature within himself. So the Trinitarians agree with you that Colossians 1:15 speaks of the created aspect of the nature of Jesus Christ. But the Trinitarians claim that Jesus also has a Divine aspect to his nature. Thus Jesus being both Divine and human is the perfect intermediary between God and humanity and is uniquely able to redeem humanity and be a propitiation for humanity. Of course, if Jesus is only a created being, none of that is true.
In regards to the Holy Spirit, do you agree with the Jehovah’s Witnesses that the Holy Spirit is just a force from God, and not a person that is separate from the Father and the Son as the Trinitarians claim?
And in relation to Jesus being only a created being, how do you understand one of the chief portions of Scripture that the Trinitarians claim proves that Jesus is God, has a Divine nature…John 1:1-18?
JamesG
Shad
““What do you mean by divine? I know Jesus is not equal with His Father. And God is only one.â€â€
Even the Trinitarians say that “God is only oneâ€. But they also say that within the one God are three persons. The original formulation of the Trinity claimed that there is a hierarchy within the one God. The Father, then the Son, then the Holy Spirit. In that sense of hierarchy Jesus is not equal with the Father. The Father is higher on the hierarchy than Jesus. But in their nature or essence, they are equal because they are both Divine in nature. This is the formulation that is still believed by the Eastern Orthodox today. The Western Church changed that formulation so that the Father is over both the Son and the Holy Spirit equally. But the idea of a hierarchy of the Son over the Holy Spirit is still present in that the Son sends the Holy Spirit to humanity. In 1Corinthians 11:3 Paul says that the head of Christ is God. Now that could be a reference to the Father or to God in general. Either way it is true.
The word “Divine†is hard to define. It relates to the essence or nature of God. God is Divine in his nature. Humanity is a created being and is thus not Divine in nature. Humanity is created in nature. Humanity was created biologically, then given life when God breathed into the first man.
In the Trinitarian idea, Jesus is understood to have two natures that is one nature. The Divine nature comes through the Holy Spirit who came on Mary, (Matthew 1:20; Luke 1:34-35) and the human nature that comes through Mary herself. So Jesus is the God-man, the one who is both the unique Son of God and the unique son of man, having both the Divine nature and the human nature within himself. So the Trinitarians agree with you that Colossians 1:15 speaks of the created aspect of the nature of Jesus Christ. But the Trinitarians claim that Jesus also has a Divine aspect to his nature. Thus Jesus being both Divine and human is the perfect intermediary between God and humanity and is uniquely able to redeem humanity and be a propitiation for humanity. Of course, if Jesus is only a created being, none of that is true.
In regards to the Holy Spirit, do you agree with the Jehovah’s Witnesses that the Holy Spirit is just a force from God, and not a person that is separate from the Father and the Son as the Trinitarians claim?
And in relation to Jesus being only a created being, how do you understand one of the chief portions of Scripture that the Trinitarians claim proves that Jesus is God, has a Divine nature…John 1:1-18?
JamesG