dadof10 said:
Mysteryman said:
Okay, thanks for your reply. But that still leaves a question unaswered. How do you follow Jesus Christ ? I understand rcc beliefs fairly well. So I would appreciate an answer of how do you follow Jesus Christ ?
Jesus promised us the comforter, and that the comforter would come in his name, and teach us all things and remind us of the things that he spoke. This comforter is called a couple of things. One, is Christ in us. The other is called, the Spirit of his Son in our hearts. Another is called, the Spirit of truth. This is where truth comes from. Men of God speak the truth, but it is confirmed by the Spirit of truth that is within us. The reason God sent Apostles, Prophets, Evangilists, and Teachers and Pastors, is so that the body of Christ would not be blown about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and their cunning craftyness , whereby they lie in wait to deceive. Without the Spirit of truth, how else can one tell if someone is speaking the truth ?
Hi MM,
We are talking by each other, so I think it might be helpful to give you some quick instruction on the Catholic view of the role the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit speaks through the teaching authority of the Catholic Church (Magisterium) for PUBLIC revelation, that is, Teaching that is binding on the faithful. Doctrine. If I want to know if salvation comes through faith alone, the Church has the answer and the REASON WHY. Please note, we do not just follow blindly. We are encouraged to ask questions, which are ALL answered.
The Holy Spirit speaks to people privately, but this is not binding on anyone but the recipient. If I pray for guidance on a particular issue, I am confident that the Holy Spirit will give me an answer. I may not like it, but He will answer me, none the less. This, however, is only for me personally.
The Church teaches that, if we receive any private revelation, it must be tested against revealed Truth. If we "receive from the spirit" that, for example, salvation is by faith alone, we must "test the Spirit" (as scripture says to do) by the proper authority, the Church Christ founded, since this is a doctrinal issue.
This is the way the Spirit works. If He is, indeed, the Spirit of Truth, He cannot teach error. If the "Spirit" tells you that we are saved by "faith alone", and another believer that we are not, how are we to decide which "Spirit" is right?
Hi dadof10 :
Again, thanks for your reply. But your reply brings up another question, which is a continuation of what we are now discussing. You just explained to me, that if you receive revelation, that it must be tested against revealed truth. I am sure you are aware how vague this statement is, correct ? You also said that everything must be tested by the proper authority , the church Christ founded, on doctrinial issues.
What I understand you to be saying, is that no individual can receive revelation from God, as a revealing of the truth , without strick adherant to the church interpreters. Am I understanding you correctly ?
Wouldn't this type of adherant just nullify the revealing that a person can receive from the Holy Spirit ? In other words, if I receive a revealing that one does not need to be water baptized for any reason. And the church standard of authority states otherwise. Would not the organizations stance come between the Holy Spirit talking and revealing to me, and the stance of the organization ?
What if the Holy Spirit wants me to help the organization to change its stance on certain teachings ? Especially when the Holy Spirit knows that the organization is in error. But the question boils down to the fact, that the organization becomes the stumbling block to hold back the truth from its congregation. Thus squashing the truth with its traditions of men and untruths.
So you see, you still have not answered the question. By what standard is truth suppose to be relevant ? Who judges truth and error ? Men ? Or God ?
You are suggesting that the Holy Spirit works through certain men, and everyone is just suppose to believe what they say without any means by which truth can be judged or untruth can be judged.
But the scriptures tell us, that there is a way to judge. Each individual who is a Christian, has the Spirit of truth in them. So each individual is the final judge. Not the group of leaders ! Nor a council of leaders !
One man , not a council of men, told Peter that he was to blame, and that he was not holding the gospel of Christ uprightly. One man ! His name was Paul. And the Holy Spirit was working through this man Paul. Yet, even Barnabas was carried away with their dissimulation. The majority of the leadership were in the wrong. That included the Apostle Peter. But this one man Paul was the only man that was correct in this instance. The council of men were in error, and the Holy Spirit working through this one Man Paul, was correct. I believe this is still happening in our day and time. And it will continue to happen, as long as men who might or might not be called of God. Hold councils and judge and elect what is the truth by way of their councils. The truth from God does not come down from God in this manner. God calls out certain men of God, and God talks directly through these men. And sometimes , certain men of God need to be corrected, as such was the case with Peter in Galatians chapter 2.
The Spirit of truth is not in councils of men, but in individual believers.
