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Bible Study Jesus' first miracle

L

lily of God

Guest
If I am not mistaken, Jesus' first miracle was providing wine to the wedding party.

I do not want be a party pooper but why did Jesus provide alcohol?

Alcohol gives us nothing but trouble to most of us IMO.

Does anyone have any insight on this?

Thank you.
 
lily of God said:
I do not want be a party pooper but why did Jesus provide alcohol?
Click to expand...

Wine would have been a safe drink because their water could have high e-coli levels. Storing milk, grape juice, etc. was not practical. I'd say for this reason, wine and spirits have been a staple of nearly every pre-modern diet, compared to America where alcohol is mostly a recreational drug.

Moderate consumption of wine has health benefits.

Some occasional elation, such as at wedding feasts, is harmless.

The Bible strongly warns against drunkenness, so its approval of alcohol should not be taken as approval of getting drunk.
 
Proverbs 23:29-35
(29) Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes?
(30) They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine.
(31) Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his color in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
(32) At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.
(33) Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things.
(34) Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast.
(35) They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again.

It has never been ok on any level except for sickness unto death as medication for pain as we now have pain meds. So many time God warns his people from the wickedness of strong drink and wine.

It goes alot deeper of course than i have studied, there is a difference between new wine and strong drink. I will get back to the subject after I have studied it more.

Something as wicked and ungodly as alcohol and the things that are committed under its influences, I have a hard time believing that Christ would bartend the wedding knowing that some, not all per say, but some would get hammered from drink he served.

It has never benifitted anyone any time, and every bible reference to it the is negative connotation to its effects.

Thanks for your time and i will get back with more. :D

Peace unto you all in the name which is above every name! LORD Jesus Christ
 
Ephesians 5:18
(18) And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;


I know you mentioned a difference between getting drunk and elevation,

"Some occasional elation, such as at wedding feasts, is harmless. "

Is that refering to a buzz, but not drunk?

Either way I would think that is being led by a spirit not of God as you referred to as "wine and spirits", funny they would call alcohol "spirits".
 
ttg said:
Are you calling Jesus a sinner because he enjoyed wine?
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Who me?

I am saying that it must not have been alcoholic because Christ is not a sinner.

Luke 7:33-35
(33) For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.
(34) The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!
(35) But wisdom is justified of all her children.

The pharasees did however call him a winebibber, which he wasnt, I did not. :)
 
Oh come on guys. Poke did a super job of explaining.

peace :D
 
ttg said:
So now you're saying he's a liar for telling us he made wine?
Click to expand...

Hmmm, did i say that? Nope!

He made wine, new wine, no alcohol, unfermented, grape juice, etc...

Words go much deeper in meaning than the english word, it needs studied...

2 Timothy 2:15
(15) Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.


Ecclesiastes 12:13-14
(13) Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
(14) For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Proverbs 17:28
(28) Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.
 
lily of God said:
Oh come on guys. Poke did a super job of explaining.

peace :D
Click to expand...

Yes he did, but only partly did i agree with, so i was just explianing my side ,without contention.
 
Preacher Boy said:
ttg said:
So now you're saying he's a liar for telling us he made wine?
Click to expand...

Hmmm, did i say that? Nope!

He made wine, new wine, no alcohol, unfermented, grape juice, etc...

Words go much deeper in meaning than the english word, it needs studied...

2 Timothy 2:15
(15) Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Ecclesiastes 12:13-14
(13) Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
(14) For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Proverbs 17:28
(28) Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.
Click to expand...

He died for your sins and rose from the dead. I'm sure he can make a proper vintage wine.

Matthew 11:19 Why was Jesus called a drunkard if he only drank grape juice?
 
The bible also speaks against gluttony, yet they called him one and he wasn't.

So as their testimony goes they were always false accusing him with no proof of sin whatsoever in his life.
 
Hi, here is an old post with the thinking of two honest people. There is even a thread perhaps for another perspective I think?
_________

Vicjr wrote:
John, I understand where you are coming from. I used to drink but have barely touched the stuff in the last 13 years. And I would NEVER recommend or condone a teen to do it as well. At that age, they really don't know their limits. That is what this is all about...knowing one's limits.

****
Hi Vicjr, (John here)
We are having a 15 year old seeing two different views! We have our convictions, but I hope that the kid listens to my advice & not yours! By the way, I lost a classmate in high school who was out with some other class mates while doing some drinking. He was the only one killed in the automobile accident. (accident?? perhaps)
****

Alcohol, in and of itself, is not a sin. Giving in to the temptation to drink excessively is the sin. It makes many people do things, stupid things. Things they wouldn't do if they were sober. Again, a person MUST KNOW THEIR LIMITS! Of course this does not apply to everyone. Some people do have addictive personalities and should abstain from drinking, ot else it will become a habit, an addiction.

Alchol is not the sin. Jesus knew that or else He wouldn't have performed His first miracle. But before you say it wasn't really alcholic wine, lets look at the miracle itself.
Quote:
John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.
John 2:7 Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.
John 2:8 And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it.

****
Me again: Let me break in here & 'see' what comes into [my mind] that our Master is saying? Let me put some marks of emphasis for [my] impression? (it helps me!)

John 2:9 When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was [made wine], (John here: that seems clear?) and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
John 2:10 And saith unto him, Every man [at the beginning doth set forth good wine];

***
Me again: pure unfermented grape juice is good wine! Prov. 23:31 said: "Look not upon *THE WINE when it red, and when it .."
***

and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse:

***
Me again: Vic, "IS WORSE" means what? aging, not as pure, starting to turn perhaps? Turn into what? It is WINE to begin with.
***

but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

Jesus was commended for the quality of wine He produced. Again I ask, would He have done this knowing full well it was a sin?
***
Me again: No, you are correct with that assumption.
***
So the other thinking is flawed. It was PURE GRAPE WINE as Prov. 23:31 states!
He was commended by the wine steward himself. It must have been wine...they did not drink grape juice at weddings!

***
Me again: Says who? Where did you get that idea? Read the verse again & then ask yourself if the Christ that even refused the vinegar as He was dyeing, could be sinless creating a 'fermented' (caused by sin) Wine? By the way, Webster tells us that Vinegar is: a sour liquid obtained by fermentation (as of cider, wine, or malt) and used in cookery and pickling. Hay, that 'pickling' word must have some suggested 'light', huh?
***

John, the person discribed in the Proverb verses you quoted has a problem and should not be drinking in the first place. The kind of person is a problem drinker. They will easily 'stumble' (no pun intended) into sin if left to their own devices. This person needs to heed the words of God in this passage.

***
Vic, we ALL have problems. We are to 'shun EVERY APPEARANCE OF EVIL'. Yet, still this is the secondary problem when we set 'danger' before any of the ones that we claim to love! Re/read the Prov. verse again as well as Christ miracle, and see if you can DETECT the word WINE before it is 'serpent'ised'?
***

The Bible clearly teaches of the dangers of drunkenness, but it doesn't condemn the drinking of wine. It is just like I said about marajuana; if it hinders your relationship with the Lord one bit then...don't do it!

Here is a good site on this subject.
http://www.crossroadscommunity.net/note ... 42702.html

Peace and God bless,
Vic


***
Please forum: Do not post back & tell me what Noah did right after leaving the Ark. Yes, Noah was human! Yet, think of it this way, he preached for 120 years that mankind would be destroyed by a flood, if they would not enter the Ark of safety! Then only eight souls did so.

After the flood receded & he left the Ark he planted a vineyard & got drunk. (Gen. 9:18-21 & what this led to!) Just a side thought, how would you feel if you had preached for 120 years, built an Ark that NO one to speak of entered? And then you have a lot of time to wonder about your 'responsibility'?? Were these lost ones because of my 'Lukewarm' love & failure? Personally, I can relate to Noah getting drunk! (even though I have not touched the stuff for 35+ years)

But, BOTTOM line: Does Christ contradict His Word? No. See 1 Cor. 14:32.

---John
 
If what Jesus made was only grape juice, why does the Bible say wine? Well, the King James does anyway. Also, Paul tells Timothy not to drink the water but to drink a little wine for his stomach's sake. Unfortunately, many people can't drink just "a little". Although wine is very low in alcohol compared to many other drinks, one can still get drunk on it if they drink enough. We're not told not to drink at all but not to be drunk. Of course, alcohol destroys braincells which are never replenished, and I can't spare any. I haven't got very many left as it is. :lol:
 
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