S
Soma-Sight
Guest
Jesus - Man who became God or God who became Man?
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Blazin Bones
Member
Christ was still God before the tranfiguration, so he didn't suddenly become God. The change from manly appearance to Godly appearance does not change the fact that he was still both fully God and fully man.
I
Imagican
Guest
And what if Jesus 'isn't' God but exactly who He stated that He was/is? What if Jesus IS a man born through the Holy Spirit. I wonder how those that believe Jesus is God explain to themselves the purpose of Satan tempting Christ. Satan's battle against God is OVER. Now his fight is with Jesus Christ. Of what possible benefit could it have served Satan to 'tempt' God?
lovely
Member
Imagican,
I do not want to turn this into another thread about the trinity, but I do want to respond to you, and then Soma.
Imagican wrote:
The tempting of Christ was to fulfill prophecy, so that Christ was tempted in the flesh, being fully flesh, and remained sinless. The law was to reveal man's sin, it was not salvation. The law served to reveal the fact that Christ had no sin, and He became our salvation. Why? Because all men are born into sin, and dead, and Christ, being righteous, did not sin, but overcame sin and death. This tempting was to fulfill the law, glorify God, and to bear witness to man of who Christ was...the Messiah, the begotten Son of God, the Word, who was with God, and was God. This was for our sake. Christ, being God, did not fall into temptation as Adam did, but resisted the flesh because of His holy spirit, and was able to be the sacrificial Lamb for man, without blemish. Only God can do this, not even a man created perfect was able to keep sin from entering the world. It took the blood of holiness, a pure line, to reconcile man to God, and pay the wages of death. Christ will judge us, and we will tremble, because He is our Lord....He is God. Our sin was imputed to Him, our substitution, and His righteousness was imputed to us, all for the purpose of being reconciled to God. 2 Corinthians 5
Soma, Christ was God always, and became man for our sakes. Isaiah 53 says "It pleased God to bruise Him". He came from glory, condescended to become flesh, and then God's wrath was unleashed upon Him while He suffered as a substitution for our sins. John told those he was baptizing when he saw Christ, "Behold, the Lamb of God" He came for the purpose of redeeming man. He overcame temptation before transfiguration, He was the Word, and the Word was with God, and was God, it is only through Him, and by His holy blood, that we could be saved. 2 Corinthians 5
The Lord bless you all.
I do not want to turn this into another thread about the trinity, but I do want to respond to you, and then Soma.
Imagican wrote:
The tempting of Christ was to fulfill prophecy, so that Christ was tempted in the flesh, being fully flesh, and remained sinless. The law was to reveal man's sin, it was not salvation. The law served to reveal the fact that Christ had no sin, and He became our salvation. Why? Because all men are born into sin, and dead, and Christ, being righteous, did not sin, but overcame sin and death. This tempting was to fulfill the law, glorify God, and to bear witness to man of who Christ was...the Messiah, the begotten Son of God, the Word, who was with God, and was God. This was for our sake. Christ, being God, did not fall into temptation as Adam did, but resisted the flesh because of His holy spirit, and was able to be the sacrificial Lamb for man, without blemish. Only God can do this, not even a man created perfect was able to keep sin from entering the world. It took the blood of holiness, a pure line, to reconcile man to God, and pay the wages of death. Christ will judge us, and we will tremble, because He is our Lord....He is God. Our sin was imputed to Him, our substitution, and His righteousness was imputed to us, all for the purpose of being reconciled to God. 2 Corinthians 5
Soma, Christ was God always, and became man for our sakes. Isaiah 53 says "It pleased God to bruise Him". He came from glory, condescended to become flesh, and then God's wrath was unleashed upon Him while He suffered as a substitution for our sins. John told those he was baptizing when he saw Christ, "Behold, the Lamb of God" He came for the purpose of redeeming man. He overcame temptation before transfiguration, He was the Word, and the Word was with God, and was God, it is only through Him, and by His holy blood, that we could be saved. 2 Corinthians 5
The Lord bless you all.
S
Soma-Sight
Guest
If Jesus is God become Man....
Than the whole scenario of leaving the heavenly house, becoming the humble servant, suffering in Gethsemane, being persecuted and forsaken by friends, is all a CHARADE!
Because if Jesus was God and never BECAME God He KNEW ALREADY the fact that He couldnt lose to Satan and the whole thing is nothing more than a big play act.....
How could God possibly lose?
If Jesus was always God... He never truly suffered. He never would have had doubts about His own Divinity. He would have not FELT forsaken by the Father as He died on the Cross.
Because to FEEL is to be human and actually BELIEVE it may happen.... Jesus had doubts, He had fears, He was tempted..... None of this would have been possible if Jesus was Fully God without leaving the POSSIBILITY of failure......
For to have the possibility of failure is to NOT BE DIVINE....
Why would Satan even bother to tempt Christ if Satan knows God can never lose?
He wouldnt.....
Than the whole scenario of leaving the heavenly house, becoming the humble servant, suffering in Gethsemane, being persecuted and forsaken by friends, is all a CHARADE!
Because if Jesus was God and never BECAME God He KNEW ALREADY the fact that He couldnt lose to Satan and the whole thing is nothing more than a big play act.....
How could God possibly lose?
If Jesus was always God... He never truly suffered. He never would have had doubts about His own Divinity. He would have not FELT forsaken by the Father as He died on the Cross.
Because to FEEL is to be human and actually BELIEVE it may happen.... Jesus had doubts, He had fears, He was tempted..... None of this would have been possible if Jesus was Fully God without leaving the POSSIBILITY of failure......
For to have the possibility of failure is to NOT BE DIVINE....
Why would Satan even bother to tempt Christ if Satan knows God can never lose?
He wouldnt.....
R
Rick W
Guest
PotLuck said:
R
Rick W
Guest
Soma-Sight said:
How do you then explain that God claimed to be jealous?
Exodus 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
lovely
Member
Soma,
I understand your misunderstanding, but I believe this is because you reason things without trying to understand who God is. Christ suffered by the hand of God, by being forsaken by the Father on the cross. He, who was holy, became the unholy, vile, and corrupt sin of man.
Soma wrote:
I ask you this, why would God have to know, or not know, He will have victory over death in order to pay it's wages? God knows all things. Do you think it is somehow more significant if there was some chance that Christ would not overcome death? This is not the case. This was done so that man would be able to come to the Truth of the Father, through the Son, and some will still reject Him as if He did nothing, as if He doesn't even exist. Worms that we are, God sacrificed His Son, and spilled His holy blood. This precious blood is priceless, but it was spilled so that the bitter cup of death would pass from those who are grafted into the vine...adopted. It is worth more than all of our souls, but God didnt' care, He spilled it anyway.
Christ submitted to the Father, for the purpose of reconciling man to God. The gap that existed between God and man was due to sin. At the cross, the gap was bridged. That is why He was both fully human, and fully God. It had to be a holy bloodline. The human part of Him suffered, and desired that this bitter cup pass from Him, but He took it to the Father....he spoke earnestly there in the garden to His Father, because He understood that a betrayal was happening even as He knelt there. He also suffered in the His Divinity, because it was the divine that left glory, (which I can not even fathom), humbled himself as a lowly man, bore shame, and indignity, to die for sinners, and shed His blood for those who would believe. He understood that His cross awaited Him, but His true cross was that these things happened at the hands of a Father who loved Him, who was one with Him, whom He reigned with. God would forsake Him, and turn away, because of who Christ would become in order to pay the penalty for the Sin of man. (I can not fathom how alone, or how shamed, or how betrayed He felt in this hour) This is why He was a Man of Sorrows, and a friend to us. A friend dies for those He loves, even when they are underserving to say the least. We were loved by Him, before we loved Him, "While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us". "For the wages of Sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
This love is from God the Father because It pleased Him to do this for us, to give His only begotten Son as a sacrifice, to not just make us servants in His kingdom, but sons! This is like me sending my son to be the sacrifice of a criminal who offended our family with some unamely, horrific, crime so that he would not lose his life...though he deserved to, but be forgiven by given mercy, and because his nature is criminal, he continues to offend. Even if my son would have victory over death, he would still have to bear the shame of this crime, be slaughtered, and all in a guiltless state for someone else's crime, and it would all be only by my mercy, and his loving submission....I could not ever do this. God did.
The Lord bless you.
I understand your misunderstanding, but I believe this is because you reason things without trying to understand who God is. Christ suffered by the hand of God, by being forsaken by the Father on the cross. He, who was holy, became the unholy, vile, and corrupt sin of man.
Soma wrote:
I ask you this, why would God have to know, or not know, He will have victory over death in order to pay it's wages? God knows all things. Do you think it is somehow more significant if there was some chance that Christ would not overcome death? This is not the case. This was done so that man would be able to come to the Truth of the Father, through the Son, and some will still reject Him as if He did nothing, as if He doesn't even exist. Worms that we are, God sacrificed His Son, and spilled His holy blood. This precious blood is priceless, but it was spilled so that the bitter cup of death would pass from those who are grafted into the vine...adopted. It is worth more than all of our souls, but God didnt' care, He spilled it anyway.
Christ submitted to the Father, for the purpose of reconciling man to God. The gap that existed between God and man was due to sin. At the cross, the gap was bridged. That is why He was both fully human, and fully God. It had to be a holy bloodline. The human part of Him suffered, and desired that this bitter cup pass from Him, but He took it to the Father....he spoke earnestly there in the garden to His Father, because He understood that a betrayal was happening even as He knelt there. He also suffered in the His Divinity, because it was the divine that left glory, (which I can not even fathom), humbled himself as a lowly man, bore shame, and indignity, to die for sinners, and shed His blood for those who would believe. He understood that His cross awaited Him, but His true cross was that these things happened at the hands of a Father who loved Him, who was one with Him, whom He reigned with. God would forsake Him, and turn away, because of who Christ would become in order to pay the penalty for the Sin of man. (I can not fathom how alone, or how shamed, or how betrayed He felt in this hour) This is why He was a Man of Sorrows, and a friend to us. A friend dies for those He loves, even when they are underserving to say the least. We were loved by Him, before we loved Him, "While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us". "For the wages of Sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
This love is from God the Father because It pleased Him to do this for us, to give His only begotten Son as a sacrifice, to not just make us servants in His kingdom, but sons! This is like me sending my son to be the sacrifice of a criminal who offended our family with some unamely, horrific, crime so that he would not lose his life...though he deserved to, but be forgiven by given mercy, and because his nature is criminal, he continues to offend. Even if my son would have victory over death, he would still have to bear the shame of this crime, be slaughtered, and all in a guiltless state for someone else's crime, and it would all be only by my mercy, and his loving submission....I could not ever do this. God did.
The Lord bless you.