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Bible Study Jesus' sacrifice on the cross

F

flier6

Guest
I'm a new believer and am having trouble with a very important Christian concept. It has to do with the sacrifice that Jesus made on the cross for our sins.

Now, I know that if I sacrificed one of my children, I would see that as the biggest sacrifice I could EVER make. But in the case of Jesus and his death, it doesn't seem like nearly as much of a sacrifice because even though he was put to "death", he rose again from the dead and lives again. Furthermore, He knew IN ADVANCE that he was going to rise from the dead. This doesn't seem like much of a sacrifice compared to if one of us sacrificed one of our children.

Please don't take offense to this...I don't WANT to see it this way but my "analytical" brain just can't seem to reconcile this. I'm really struggling with this and am hoping someone can clear this up for me.

Thanks in advance.
 
dictionary.com
Sacrifice:

1)The act of offering something to a deity in propitiation or homage, especially the ritual slaughter of an animal or a person.
A victim offered in this way.

2)Forfeiture of something highly valued for the sake of one considered to have a greater value or claim.

flier6 said:
I'm a new believer and am having trouble with a very important Christian concept. It has to do with the sacrifice that Jesus made on the cross for our sins.

You are thinking in terms of 2, that Jesus made a sacrifice for our sins, and thereby forfeited something.
Perhaps it would be clearer to first think in terms of 1, that Jesus was the antoning sacrifice for our sins.

I'm not sure if the Hebrew and Greek words for sacrifice can also used in the sense of "forfeiture" of something. Jesus did sacrifice himself(2), but in terms of how he lived, and even died, fully submitted to the will of the Father.
 
flier6 said:
I'm a new believer and am having trouble with a very important Christian concept. It has to do with the sacrifice that Jesus made on the cross for our sins.

Now, I know that if I sacrificed one of my children, I would see that as the biggest sacrifice I could EVER make. But in the case of Jesus and his death, it doesn't seem like nearly as much of a sacrifice because even though he was put to "death", he rose again from the dead and lives again. Furthermore, He knew IN ADVANCE that he was going to rise from the dead. This doesn't seem like much of a sacrifice compared to if one of us sacrificed one of our children.

Please don't take offense to this...I don't WANT to see it this way but my "analytical" brain just can't seem to reconcile this. I'm really struggling with this and am hoping someone can clear this up for me.

Thanks in advance.

Sputnik: Hi, flier. The question you're asking is not a silly one, nor is it disrespectful. I'm sure that many of us have asked this and other scripturally concerned questions any number of times. The more I get into theological discussions on these forums, the more I finish up scratching my head and saying, "What the ...." Y'know, I once thought that I pretty well had it all figured out! Silly me.

In regard to your question, while Jesus knew that he would be raised from the dead, He had to go through the kind of suffering that would have us shuddering at the thought of it happening to us. In fact, I doubt that any of us could go through with it. And, so important, Jesus didn't HAVE to go through it for any other reason than to save us. I guess He could have opted out if He'd wanted to. But He knew what He had to do.

Another tricky one. God requires the shedding of blood for the remission of sins. And, because of this we're all doomed to death for 'the wages of sin is death'. Fortunately for us, God sent His Son to die in our place. Maybe we can get to the bottom of all of this one day when we can ask questions of Jesus/God face to face. I'm sure Paul will be mobbed by many irate Bible-waving 'saints' who will be asking of him, "What on earth did you mean by this, what on earth did you mean by that ...!"

So, while we'll always have scriptural questions that can't be answered satisfactorily in this life, we CAN rest in the knowledge that God is in control. We may not understand everything but we don't need to. As complicated as some people on this forum make it sound, being a Christian need not be a complex matter. Fancy theological knowledge doesn't necessarily make one a better Christian. In fact ....

Let me ask you, if you knew that you were going to be raised from the dead three days after your crucifixion, would you volunteer yourself for the task? No. And nor would I. Another significant point to this issue - in fact, ALL of Christianity hinges on this - is that Jesus WAS raised from the dead. This act demonstrates to all of us that death need not be final. And, I think we can all praise God for that!
 
Yes, I remember asking this question as a new believer as well.

The thing is, Christ came from glory...He left is throne in Heaven and condescended to become a man of flesh, keep the law perfectly, be falsely accused, and then suffer death, guilt, and shame on the cross, all with no resistance....all at the hand of the Father, for people who are not worthy, and quite sinful...even ungrateful at times. Now, He intercedes for us, and calls us righteous. That is why when we love Him, we must follow His commandments. "While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." Please read the following chapter it is a clear picture of the sacrifice.

Isaiah 53

1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
 
You have to take into account the fact that we are not God. Christ was.

Why is there any such thing as death? Because of sin. Since all men sin, our children are doomed to die. While it would still be a great sacrifice to give them up, we still can't save their lives.

Christ was sinless, therefore He had no reason to die. Had there have been no need for a cross, He could have lived forever in the flesh. God did know what was going to happen, but the reason why Christ sacrifice was so great is because He is the one person did not deserve to die. So the sacrifice isn't just that He gave His life, but that He took a punishment we all deserved and bore it for Himself.

Thanks to God's greatness, He rose Christ from the dead because He had done what none of us could have ever done.
 
Yesha,

actually, your suggestion is helpful. I keep thinking that "giving your life for someone" is more like throwing yourself on a grenade or something. Truly giving up your life to save others' lives. But if you knew that 3 days later you'd just come back to life, the act wouldn't be nearly as meaningful as it would if you didn't have that assurance.

Seeing the sacrifice as definition 1 instead of 2 clears it up quite a bit. Thank you.


SputnikBoy,

G'day. There's no doubt that what Jesus had to endure was unspeakable and I don't mean to trivialize it, but it seems like the worst part of giving up your life, wouldn't be what you had to endure during the process of doing it, but the fact that you're life is over. If you know in advance that it will only be "over" for 3 days, that's quite different.

"And, so important, Jesus didn't HAVE to go through it for any other reason than to save us. I guess He could have opted out if He'd wanted to. But He knew what He had to do."

That's a great point.

"God requires the shedding of blood for the remission of sins. And, because of this we're all doomed to death for 'the wages of sin is death'. Fortunately for us, God sent His Son to die in our place."

This is kind of what Yesha said and I think I'll try focusing on this aspect and pray about it and see if it helps.



Lovely,

Great chapter. Pretty amazing that you can go to the Old Testament for such a vivid description of Jesus' sacrifice.



Brutus,

"So the sacrifice isn't just that He gave His life, but that He took a punishment we all deserved and bore it for Himself."

I'm not having a problem with understanding how horrible his death was OR the fact that is was so undeserved. But it's hard for me to think of what he did as "giving his life" when he knew in advance that it would only be for 3 days. That's where I'm getting stuck.


Thanks to everybody who responded. Don't give up on me.
 
But He did lose a life permanently, His earthly life. What was resurrected on the third day was Christ in his glorified life.

Think of the last days, when the saints are taken up into heaven, it won't be a continuation of our Earthly life, but the begining of our glorifed life. The same was true wehn Christ rose.
 
Our Participation With Christ Through The Gospel Is The Key

Hi flier:

Thank you for asking this very good question.

Flier6 >> I'm a new believer and am having trouble with a very important Christian concept. It has to do with the sacrifice that Jesus made on the cross for our sins. Now, I know that if I sacrificed one of my children, I would see that as the biggest sacrifice I could EVER make. But in the case of Jesus and his death, it doesn't seem like nearly as much of a sacrifice because even though he was put to "death", he rose again from the dead and lives again. Furthermore, He knew IN ADVANCE that he was going to rise from the dead. This doesn't seem like much of a sacrifice compared to if one of us sacrificed one of our children . . .

The right answer to your question is a little more complicated than you might expect. Please allow me to demonstrate using a few diagrams and perhaps the deeper meaning of what God is doing through His Son will become apparent. Then from a larger view of things we can return and address your question. Back in the very beginning, God created the Heaven and the Earth.

03.jpg


Consider that the perfect “Heaven†is God’s Perfect Word and that through Him God called this Creation (Earth) into being. Colossians 1:16-17. God (spirit), His Perfect Word (blood) and this Creation (water) existed in absolute perfection. There were no such things as ‘heavens’ or a physical ‘earth’ in that Creation, but those terms were bound up in the same things as a singularity of expression. There were no such things as angels or men or even women, because all created beings were created perfect, whole and complete and their spirit and body was the exact same thing. However, The Satanic Rebellion caused the blue sphere above to become divided directly into two parts of heavens (spirit) and earth (water) and darkness was upon the face of the deep (Genesis 1:2). God could not send His Perfect Word into this broken creation, because He continued to exist (The Word = John 1:2) in His Perfect singularity expression. This is where we come to the most important event in the history of this universe, because God was forced to divide His Word into two parts of the Father (spirit) and Holy Spirit (water). God sacrificing His Word is the ‘true’ sacrifice that He made for everyone here, because it was through the rejoining of those first two witnesses (Father + Holy Spirit) that God’s Son became the “Only Begotten from the Father†(John 1:14).

04.jpg


Note how the perfect round blue sphere above was transformed into the three witnesses of “Heavens†(spirit), “Heaven†(blood) and “Earth†(water). God’s Perfect Word was transformed into the Father (spirit), Son (blood) and Holy Spirit (water) in Matthew 28:19. God’s three witnesses appear in Figure 2 as “God To Come†(spirit), “God Who Is†(blood) and “God Who Was†(water) in Revelation 1:8. Then, God sent His Only Begotten Son through the “First Veil†(Figure 1) to incarnate into ‘Heaven’ (between Heavens and Earth) of ‘This Creation,†as the “Lamb of God.â€Â

44.jpg


Note carefully that the “Lamb†is in the ‘center of the throne’ (Revelation 7:17) in Figure 3, which is in “This Creation†between the seen (Earth) and unseen (Heavens) universe. Then realize that “Jesus Christ†is the ‘incarnation’ of the “Lamb of God†onto “Our Earth.†Therefore, when Jesus Christ began His march to Calvary, then He was fulfilling types in ‘Heaven’ of this “Creation†(Figure 3) AND those established in the “Word Realm†(Figure 2) from where “The Word†is being restored into God’s “Only Begotten Son.†That red section in Figure 2 (“Highest Heavenâ€Â) is the “Son†enlarging to once again become “The Word†from the middle of the first diagram above. Likewise, “Heaven†(Figure 3) is also becoming the perfect round blue sphere (Creation = Adam) of the first diagram above. Figure 1 demonstrates how "God" is "IN" His Son (restored Word). You and I are living during the time between their division (Satanic Rebellion) and God restoring Both to their perfect state. Now, from this understanding let’s try to address your comparisons to you sacrificing your own son and God sacrificing His Son.

God sent Christ to the cross to die for our sins, but that is only half the story, because God also sent the gospel into the world that He had raised Christ from the dead. On the surface this does not seem such a miraculous thing, because God can make sons out of mere stones (Luke 3:38). The ‘power of God’ (Romans 1:16) manifested by the Gospel is that all of those believing are baptized (1 Corinthians 12:13) into Christ’s body (1 Corinthians 12:27) on the cross at Calvary 2000 Years ago. We become active participants in His death, burial and resurrection, so that God seats us “IN†the heavenly places “IN†Christ Jesus. Ephesians 2:6-7.

19.jpg


Note carefully that the Father + Son + Holy Spirit = “Christ Jesus†the Heavenly “Man†between God and men. 1 Timothy 2:5. Note also that God raised Jesus Christ not just into heaven, but “far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things.†Ephesians 4:10. In other words, Jesus Christ ascended above ‘Heaven’ and the ‘Heavens’ of “This Creation,†to go all the way back to “IN†the Son back in the “Word Realm.†That is the same place that God has seated everyone to believe our Gospel, as we are also seated “IN†the heavenly places “IN†Christ Jesus (Ephesians 2:6-7). This is what Paul means in saying that we have been ‘crucifd with Christ’ (Galatians 2:20) and that God has raised us up together with Christ (Colossians 3:1); and that our lives are hidden with Christ “IN†God. Colossians 3:3. Sacrificing your son in no way allows others to become an active participant in his death, burial AND resurrection, because his resurrection is still in the future; where Christ’s is in the past. The diagrams show how God is truly transferred us from this “Domain of Darkness†into the Kingdom of His Beloved Son (Colossians 1:13), which is indeed NOT of this Creation (John 18:36).

I hope this helps you to understand the differences. Thank you again for asking this very good question,

In Christ Jesus,

Terral
 
flier6 said:
I'm a new believer and am having trouble with a very important Christian concept. It has to do with the sacrifice that Jesus made on the cross for our sins.

Now, I know that if I sacrificed one of my children, I would see that as the biggest sacrifice I could EVER make. But in the case of Jesus and his death, it doesn't seem like nearly as much of a sacrifice because even though he was put to "death", he rose again from the dead and lives again. Furthermore, He knew IN ADVANCE that he was going to rise from the dead. This doesn't seem like much of a sacrifice compared to if one of us sacrificed one of our children.

Please don't take offense to this...I don't WANT to see it this way but my "analytical" brain just can't seem to reconcile this. I'm really struggling with this and am hoping someone can clear this up for me.

Thanks in advance.


Christ NEVER died for anyone's sins as that is an impossibility. If Christ did die for everyone's sins then Lucifer would be forgiven for what he did but that is not the case. One has to REPENT in order for sins to be forgiven and even Christ is helpless if a person refuses to repent.

Christ resurrection deals with our eternal life. He did what he did, to show us what all of us will go through in order to possibly attain eternal life. Whereas, before him all of it was nothing but speculation, after he resurrected, we have proof that eternal life is possible, if we desire so.

:D
 
Christ Died For Everyone Who Believes

Hi Earth:

Earth >> Christ NEVER died for anyone's sins as that is an impossibility.

Surely you jest. What does Scripture say?

“For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures . . .â€Â. 1 Corinthians 15:3.

The key is that Christ died for the sins of everyone who ‘believes.’ Romans 1:16. The ‘gospel’ is the power of God for salvation in that process, so Christ died for everyone hearing (Romans 10:17) and believing (Ephesians 1:13-14) the Gospel.

Earth >> If Christ did die for everyone's sins then Lucifer would be forgiven for what he did but that is not the case.

Satan is no opportunity to hear and believe the gospel. Our gospel is veiled to those who are perishing. 2 Corinthians 4:3-4.

Earth >> One has to REPENT in order for sins to be forgiven and even Christ is helpless if a person refuses to repent.

I wish you had used even one verse of Scripture in your post. We are saved by God’s grace through faith apart from any works. Ephesians 2:8-9. The preacher (Romans 10:14) presents the message of truth and some place themselves into the position of obedience (hearing = Romans 10:17) and some reject the truth (2 Thessalonians 2:10-12). “Repentance†is a doctrinal component for the ‘gospel of the kingdom’ (Matthew 4:23, Matthew 9:35, etc.) along with confession and water baptism for the “forgiveness of sins†(Mark 1:4-5). The only requirements for obedience to Paul’s “word of the cross†(1 Corinthians 1:18) gospel message is ‘hearing’ (Romans 10:17) and believing (Ephesians 1:13-14).

Earth >> Christ resurrection deals with our eternal life.

Eternal life is the gift of God (Romans 6:23) that we receive by His grace through faith apart from works (Ephesians 2:8-9). What part of NO WORKS are you having trouble understanding? Does the preacher say, “Oh, before I preach the Gospel, you must repent of this and that?†No. The unregenerated soul standing in his presence has yet to receive the Holy Spirit of promise (Ephesians 1:14), UNTIL HE BELIEVES (Ephesians 1:13). Saying that Christ’s resurrection ‘deals with our eternal life’ is not saying anything . . .

Earth >> He did what he did, to show us what all of us will go through in order to possibly attain eternal life. Whereas, before him all of it was nothing but speculation, after he resurrected, we have proof that eternal life is possible, if we desire so.

No sir. Where you are deriving this from Scripture is beyond me . . . Paul teaches that believers have been crucified with Christ (Galatians 2:20) and that we have been raised with Him (Colossians 3:1) to be seated “IN†the heavenly places “IN†Christ Jesus. Ephesians 2:6-7. Our lives are hidden with Christ in God right now. Colossians 3:3. Your doctrine is not taught in Scripture anywhere. Please provide Scripture to support your statements and perhaps we will have something to debate.

Thank you for writing,

In Christ Jesus,

Terral
 
Well as good as God has made this life of mine I will have no trouble leaving this world behind. No matter how you cut it the world is not a pretty place. And what is promised ahead sounds so good.

So your argument has the same meaning for you. What would be so terrible with sacrificing a son, when he would be going to the same place as Jesus? The best place that is possible to be?

Seems to me that if Christians loved their neighbor as themselves, they would not have a problem with a loved one going there.
 
Windozer said:
Well as good as God has made this life of mine I will have no trouble leaving this world behind. No matter how you cut it the world is not a pretty place. And what is promised ahead sounds so good.

So your argument has the same meaning for you. What would be so terrible with sacrificing a son, when he would be going to the same place as Jesus? The best place that is possible to be?

Seems to me that if Christians loved their neighbor as themselves, they would not have a problem with a loved one going there.


Please, go ahead and sacrifice your son so that he can be with Jesus !! Psychiatrists in Canada can be seen for free, can't they ??


:evil:
 
earth said:
Windozer said:
Well as good as God has made this life of mine I will have no trouble leaving this world behind. No matter how you cut it the world is not a pretty place. And what is promised ahead sounds so good.

So your argument has the same meaning for you. What would be so terrible with sacrificing a son, when he would be going to the same place as Jesus? The best place that is possible to be?

Seems to me that if Christians loved their neighbor as themselves, they would not have a problem with a loved one going there.


Please, go ahead and sacrifice your son so that he can be with Jesus !! Psychiatrists in Canada can be seen for free, can't they ??


:evil:

My we sure have some real smart rookies here. Tell me just where do you get that kind of wisdom from. If you don't wish to take my post with in the context of this thread when you shoot your mouth off. Please be kind enough to provide a Barf bucket so that I don't have to find mine.
 
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