Jesus said;

[Hitch]

Matthew 24:21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.


One of the popular versions of what this means is that our Lord is speaking about the 'end times' .

If that is the case I wonder why he adds "nor ever shall be."

Anybody know?

Another popular notion about this verse is that while it may refer to the events of the Destruction we are to see it as a warning because of a dual fulfillment.

That idea runs right into the heart of what Jesus actually said;" such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

If you can find a plainer prophetic declaration of a unique event in history I'd like to see it.

Another popular idea among believers is to apply a strict literalistic understanding to this verse. Measuring it as a world wide event. These same folks view this 'tribulation' as a step toward the personal rule of Christ on earth. Noah is mentioned often in the NT and Jesus personally spoke of Noah. I believe Jesus was teaching, in part by this, that Noah was a real person and the associated Flood Account is factually reliable. So it is required that great tribulation leave fewer than 8 souls alive in order to maintain the strict literalist position" not since the beginning of the world to this time," .

 

[Sinthesis]

Or eight souls, but they don't get a giant boat. Eight people in a mobile home trailer would be quite the tribulation even without animals.

 

[Hitch]

Or eight souls, but they don't get a giant boat. Eight people in a mobile home trailer would be quite the tribulation even without animals.

Or Rany Quaid's motor home

 

[freeway]

Matthew 24:21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.


One of the popular versions of what this means is that our Lord is speaking about the 'end times' .

If that is the case I wonder why he adds "nor ever shall be."

Anybody know?

Another popular notion about this verse is that while it may refer to the events of the Destruction we are to see it as a warning because of a dual fulfillment.

That idea runs right into the heart of what Jesus actually said;" such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

If you can find a plainer prophetic declaration of a unique event in history I'd like to see it.

Another popular idea among believers is to apply a strict literalistic understanding to this verse. Measuring it as a world wide event. These same folks view this 'tribulation' as a step toward the personal rule of Christ on earth. Noah is mentioned often in the NT and Jesus personally spoke of Noah. I believe Jesus was teaching, in part by this, that Noah was a real person and the associated Flood Account is factually reliable. So it is required that great tribulation leave fewer than 8 souls alive in order to maintain the strict literalist position" not since the beginning of the world to this time," .

Sure I'll take a little stab at it.. let me see... "Nor shall ever be" Jesus means the end of the age. If he "Jesus" does not come back and stop the wars no flesh will survive. OK which is greater.. When the Roman 5 6 9 10 legions or number like that marched in Jerusalem in 70AD and Killed around 1.5 million Jews yes that was horrible.. true... Now when Hitler marched 6 to 10 millions Jews to their death. Just by shear numbers things got worse. Would you not agree?:o And when the AC comes and he is going to come upon the world like a storm, Hitler will seem like a choir boy..:o

 

[Hitch]

Sure I'll take a little stab at it.. let me see... "Nor shall ever be" Jesus means the end of the age. If he "Jesus" does not come back and stop the wars no flesh will survive. OK which is greater.. When the Roman 5 6 9 10 legions or number like that marched in Jerusalem in 70AD and Killed around 1.5 million Jews yes that was horrible.. true... Now when Hitler marched 6 to 10 millions Jews to their death. Just by shear numbers things got worse. Would you not agree?:o And when the AC comes and he is going to come upon the world like a storm, Hitler will seem like a choir boy..:o

When Hitler arrived there wasnt even a nation. The nation had more than a thousand years earlier been covenantally as well as physically destroyed. The priesthood demolished and the royal lines lost. Dont forget Christ personally pronounced Israel's house a desolation. Israel had been removed from the Land before , but this time it sdifferent. Jesus has warned that they will soon lose the kingdom. Not only will they loes it but a nation that produces the fruit of it will take their place. This time there is no promise of a return. The whore is turned out.

 

[Stormcrow]

{21} "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. Matthew 24:21 (NASB)

One of the popular versions of what this means is that our Lord is speaking about the 'end times' .

End times. Like these?

{9} ~'And because of all your abominations, I will do among you what I have not done, and the like of which I will never do again. Ezekiel 5:9 (NASB)

{1} "Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued. Daniel 12:1 (NASB)

{7} 'Alas! for that day is great, There is none like it; And it is the time of Jacob's distress, But he will be saved from it. Jeremiah 30:7 (NASB)

Now while some here would suggest all of these verses point to a single "end time", the fact is the passages from Ezekiel and Jeremiah prophecy of Jerusalem's destruction at the hands of the Babylonians, (586 BC) while Daniel prophesies of its destruction at the hands of the Syrians and Macedonians under Antiochus IV Epiphanes (167 BC). Matthew is citing Christ's words with respect to Jerusalem's destruction by the Romans (70 AD).

So either these are all talking about the same "end time", or people need to rethink what "end time" really means.

And I don't want to hear from the "war animals" that these are all talking about a single "end time" way off in the future for us. There is more than enough scholarship on the web to confirm what I've just written.

Peace. Out.

 

[warhorse]

Matthew 24:21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.


One of the popular versions of what this means is that our Lord is speaking about the 'end times' .

If that is the case I wonder why he adds "nor ever shall be."

Anybody know?

Another popular notion about this verse is that while it may refer to the events of the Destruction we are to see it as a warning because of a dual fulfillment.

That idea runs right into the heart of what Jesus actually said;" such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

If you can find a plainer prophetic declaration of a unique event in history I'd like to see it.

Another popular idea among believers is to apply a strict literalistic understanding to this verse. Measuring it as a world wide event. These same folks view this 'tribulation' as a step toward the personal rule of Christ on earth. Noah is mentioned often in the NT and Jesus personally spoke of Noah. I believe Jesus was teaching, in part by this, that Noah was a real person and the associated Flood Account is factually reliable. So it is required that great tribulation leave fewer than 8 souls alive in order to maintain the strict literalist position" not since the beginning of the world to this time," .

Hmmm so you presume that worlde wide destruction and the death of a few thousand peaple tops, with only 8 remaining would be comparable to worldwide destruction and the death of about 4.5 billion peaple with about 2 billion remaining. hmm I still think the later would be far more notable.

 

[Hitch]

Hmmm so you presume that worlde wide destruction and the death of a few thousand peaple tops, with only 8 remaining would be comparable to worldwide destruction and the death of about 4.5 billion peaple with about 2 billion remaining. hmm I still think the later would be far more notable.

Well answer man will you tell us how you know how many died in the Flood?

 

[warhorse]

Well answer man will you tell us how you know how many died in the Flood?

That was a high estimate based on the fact that the birth line from Adam is listed (minus the women). Do the math and you will see that Adam himself died in the flood as did his lineage..

 

[Sam21]

Matthew 24:21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.


One of the popular versions of what this means is that our Lord is speaking about the 'end times' .

If that is the case I wonder why he adds "nor ever shall be."

Anybody know?

Another popular notion about this verse is that while it may refer to the events of the Destruction we are to see it as a warning because of a dual fulfillment.

That idea runs right into the heart of what Jesus actually said;" such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

If you can find a plainer prophetic declaration of a unique event in history I'd like to see it.

Another popular idea among believers is to apply a strict literalistic understanding to this verse. Measuring it as a world wide event. These same folks view this 'tribulation' as a step toward the personal rule of Christ on earth. Noah is mentioned often in the NT and Jesus personally spoke of Noah. I believe Jesus was teaching, in part by this, that Noah was a real person and the associated Flood Account is factually reliable. So it is required that great tribulation leave fewer than 8 souls alive in order to maintain the strict literalist position" not since the beginning of the world to this time," .

The time of Noah was the end of that particular age, it was the end of the world so to speak for everyone except the saved, that is how Jesus said it would be when He returned, the end of the age.

 

[reba]

curious as to who sees, what history tells us happened 70 Ad, as the end of an age?

If so what age?

 

[Sinthesis]

curious as to who sees, what history tells us happened 70 Ad, as the end of an age?

If so what age?

Had you been a Jew in 70AD, whether or not you believed your promised Messiah had come, don't you think the events of 70AD would have signaled the end of an age for God's chosen people?

 

[reba]

I know what i think DUH at least i think i do?

 

[Hitch]

The time of Noah was the end of that particular age, it was the end of the world so to speak for everyone except the saved, that is how Jesus said it would be when He returned, the end of the age.

Score 1 for Sam! Just as it says in Hebrews;



For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself

Now,,in the end of the world??

 

[warhorse]

curious as to who sees, what history tells us happened 70 Ad, as the end of an age?

If so what age?

Yes!!! the days of vengence and the begging of the times of the gentils

 

[Quinoa]

I appreciate scripture greatly. I don't think you can 'divorce' verse 21 from the rest of the chapter.

21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

what about the rest?


22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25Behold, I have told you before. 26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

When did this occur in 70AD? Even more precisely!!!!

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

When did this happen??

 

[Hitch]

I appreciate scripture greatly. I don't think you can 'divorce' verse 21 from the rest of the chapter.

21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

what about the rest?


22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25Behold, I have told you before. 26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

When did this occur in 70AD? Even more precisely!!!!

Most of the time worsening as the siege dragged on .

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Yawn I suppose you want some explanation according to some sort of literalist position wrt the sun and moon, rather than the symbolic understanding of powers and governments being shaken. Correct?

30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The 'sign' was the destruction itself and especially the smoke rising from the burning city. The 'sign' is proof that Christ was a true prophet, his condemnation came to pass and those people saw it happen

When did this happen??

 

[Sam21]

I appreciate scripture greatly. I don't think you can 'divorce' verse 21 from the rest of the chapter.

21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

what about the rest?


22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25Behold, I have told you before. 26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

When did this occur in 70AD? Even more precisely!!!!

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

When did this happen??

"all the tribes of the earth mourn"is proof that Jesus was describing a return that would be experienced by the entire earth,something that has yet to occur.