Bible Study John 10:22

[Douglas Summers]

The Feast of Dedication in John 10:22 is the Festival of Lights. It is not in the Law of Moses, but it's festive (also called Hanukkah) instructions are in the Talmud.

• Talmud - Wikipedia
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talmud
  
  The Talmud (/ ˈ t ɑː l m ʊ d, -m ə d, ˈ t æ l-/; Hebrew: תַּלְמוּד ‎ talmūd "instruction, learning", from a root LMD "teach, study") is a central ...
  

 

[Chopper]

This is interesting Douglas. I read your referral to Wikipedia and found it interesting as well. So, what's your point of this thread, now that you've peaked my interest?

 

[Douglas Summers]

This is interesting Douglas. I read your referral to Wikipedia and found it interesting as well. So, what's your point of this thread, now that you've peaked my interest?

We had a discussion several weeks ago about John 10:22 being the same as Hanukkah. I did not think it was. But a further study with a Rabbi, I found that it is the "Feast of Dedication". It is not in the Mosaic Law or "Torah", but in the "Talmud", rabbinic writings after Babylon. The Feast of Dedication or Feast of Lights (Hanukkah) has to do with the re-dedication of the Temple after it was cleansed of all the foreign idols and the Miracle of the 8 days of the burning Menorah during the 400 years between the Old and New Testament.

 

[Chopper]

This is interesting to be sure. I would say that for the past six or so months, I've had a deep hunger to know more about the Torah. I receive news letters from

and they mention the Torah. Why do you think I have this thirst? I don't really know where to go for information.

 

[Douglas Summers]

This is interesting to be sure. I would say that for the past six or so months, I've had a deep hunger to know more about the Torah. I receive news letters from

and they mention the Torah. Why do you think I have this thirst? I don't really know where to go for information.

The Torah is the beginning of the Revelation of creation, the creator and His covenants with mankind. Torah means "teaching or learning". The Torah is also called the "Pentateuch". All that is covenanted by God, along with His purpose, to Israel and the Gentile nations is fulfilled or will be filled in the NT Scriptures. The reason one has a desire to know the Torah is to prove the deity and witness to the promises of God in the Torah in Jesus Christ in the NT. (Rom. 15:7-13) BTW, I study and a member of the Christian Jew Foundation.

The Christ refers to the OT to prove His Deity. Study (Luke 24:13-35)

 

[smaller]

This is interesting to be sure. I would say that for the past six or so months, I've had a deep hunger to know more about the Torah. I receive news letters from

and they mention the Torah. Why do you think I have this thirst? I don't really know where to go for information.

Chopper, you do realize that it is Jesus' Words in the O.T. when we read the "thus saith the Lord" don't you? 1 Pet. 1:10-12. It is no wonder, why your thirst. Spiritually natural thirst. The only unfortunate matter is that so many of us are taught, quite falsely and wrongly, to discard the O.T. Shame really, to any who teach that. But many do.

 

[eddif]

Luke 16:16 KJV
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

To not muzzle the ox is the law.
To pay the preacher is more the reality.
I Corinthians 9:9-10 is the reality.

Shadows in the OT OC, but Jesus (the caster of the shadows) is the reality.
Colossians 2 16-17

eddif

 

[eddif]

Left off the semicolon (for all fall short)
Colossians 2:16-17 KJV
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

We understand shadows exist, but the body that casts the shadow is the reality. An ox is flesh and blood, but the cloven hoofs and 4 stomachs ate still symbols too.

eddif

 

[Papa Zoom]

I don't have anything to add other than to say this is an interesting topic. I could use more understanding of the different festivals and celebrations and why they were practiced.

 

[Douglas Summers]

Chopper, you do realize that it is Jesus' Words in the O.T. when we read the "thus saith the Lord" don't you? 1 Pet. 1:10-12.

Good proof Scripture for this discussion.

 

[Chopper]

Thanks guys.

 

[eddif]

John 9:40 KJV
And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

The last two verses of John 9 sets up John chapter 10.

The first six verses set up the error of entering the sheepfold.
Then
John 10:7 KJV
Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

Not shadows maybe invented by the elders.
Mark 7:10 KJV
For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

If we can not find verse 22 supported in the first books of scriptures; do we accept something only the Pharisees support?

Then
Jesus sets himself up as the good shepherd.
John 10:11 KJV
I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.

By the time we get to verse 22, we sure want to understand that if there is reality to verse 22, it is going to be Jesus. If the verse is not supported in scripture (not side note traditions) then we just move on.

Jesus is then accused by many:
John 10:20 KJV
And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?

Now we are to John 10:22
Is the law of Moses the source, the prophets? Or is tradition our source?

eddif

 

[th1b.taylor]

John 9:40 KJV
And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

The last two verses of John 9 sets up John chapter 10.

The first six verses set up the error of entering the sheepfold.
Then
John 10:7 KJV
Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

Not shadows maybe invented by the elders.
Mark 7:10 KJV
For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

If we can not find verse 22 supported in the first books of scriptures; do we accept something only the Pharisees support?

Then
Jesus sets himself up as the good shepherd.
John 10:11 KJV
I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.

By the time we get to verse 22, we sure want to understand that if there is reality to verse 22, it is going to be Jesus. If the verse is not supported in scripture (not side note traditions) then we just move on.

Jesus is then accused by many:
John 10:20 KJV
And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?

Now we are to John 10:22
Is the law of Moses the source, the prophets? Or is tradition our source?

eddif

Very good!

 

[smaller]

Now we are to John 10:22
Is the law of Moses the source, the prophets? Or is tradition our source?

eddif

The reference was intended as an observation of Hanukkah or Chanukah, legit or no?

We should maybe recognize that all Jewish festivals/celebrations are pictures of Christ in various ways, and I would certainly include Hanukkah in that list.

Our own priestly class forbears of sacerdotalism have pretty well stripped christianity bare of understanding any of these "Jewish" matters and replaced them with suitable christian alternatives, as they have determined. Pity really. But they were only shadows in any case.

There are value quotients and insights to be gained from studies of these matters. A bit too late now to change the past.

The Jew will always struggle to understand that Jesus means the Spirit of God in Christ, in us. That God is in us, with us, by Christ's Spirit.

And we kind of do a poor job of explaining it to boot. I think if we did better, they'd see better. Whenever people today hear/see of Jesus, what is it they really think they are seeing? Lord only knows. There are so many versions in the market place at this point it's hard to keep track of them all.

 

[eddif]

Jesus did not appreciate the traditions of leadership of his day.

This should be a warning to this day. Do not study margin notes, but study the scriptures themselves. We have to not keep the faith of our group, but allow the word to be alive.

The Gentile church members tend to write false traditions themselves.

I prefer born again Jewish authors (commonly Matthew, Mark, etc.

eddif

 

[Douglas Summers]

Jesus did not appreciate the traditions of leadership of his day.

This should be a warning to this day. Do not study margin notes, but study the scriptures themselves. We have to not keep the faith of our group, but allow the word to be alive.

The Gentile church members tend to write false traditions themselves.

I prefer born again Jewish authors (commonly Matthew, Mark, etc.

eddif

Only Matthew and John were Jewish Apostles, While Mark and Luke may have been saved, they were not Jewish. Marks mother may have been Jewish, but his father was not. Luke was a Gentile physician.

 

[reba]

Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were all one in Christ

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[Douglas Summers]

Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were all one in Christ

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Agreed, I was just pointing out that their ancestry were not all Jewish, so as you say, you do not have to be a Jew to evangelize for Christ, just a born again believer. Some of Christ worse enemies were Jewish, even as today.

 

[ezrider]

John 6:35
And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

.

 

[ezrider]

I've had a deep hunger to know

Why do you think I have this thirst?

Isaiah 29:1-2
Woe to Ariel, to Ariel, the city where David dwelt!
add ye year to year; let them kill sacrifices.
Yet I will distress Ariel,
and there shall be heaviness and sorrow:
and it shall be unto me as Ariel.

Isaiah 29:6-8
Thou shalt be visited of the Lord of hosts
with thunder, and with earthquake, and great noise,
with storm and tempest, and the flame of devouring fire.
And the multitude of all the nations that fight against Ariel,
even all that fight against her
and her munition, and that distress her, shall be as a dream of a night vision.
It shall even be as when an hungry man dreameth, and, behold, he eateth;
but he awaketh, and his soul is empty:
or as when a thirsty man dreameth, and, behold, he drinketh;
but he awaketh, and, behold, he is faint, and his soul hath appetite:
so shall the multitude of all the nations be,
that fight against mount Zion.

Amos 8:11-13
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God,
that I will send a famine in the land,
not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water,
but of hearing the words of the Lord:
And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east,
they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it.
In that day shall the fair virgins and young men faint for thirst.