John 20:28

[Sothenes]

"And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God."-John 20:28

"Stir up thyself, and awake to my judgment, even unto my cause, my God ('elohiym) and my Lord ('Adonay)."-Psalm 35:23

In Acts 14:11-15, the people lifted their voices and said,"..The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men." and when Barnabus and Paul heard that they rent their clothes (Acts 14:14) but Jesus did no such thing but commended Thomas in John 20:29 which says"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."

If Jesus wasn't God then didn't Thomas take the Lord's name in vain and if Thomas did take the Lord's name in vain then why didn't Jesus rebuke Thomas? Jesus never said He was a lesser God or 'a god'. In the NASB, God refers to Yahweh which is what Thomas was referring to.

Psalms 35:23 Stir up thyself, and awake to my judgment, [even] unto my cause, my God and my Lord.

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

 

[Sothenes]

Jay Green Interlinear

"Stir Yourself and awaken to my judgment, to my case my God and my Lord."-Psalm 35:23 (Jay Green Interlinear)

"Stir Yourself (5702) and awaken to my judgment O my God and my Lord"

O "my God" (430) "and my Lord" (136)

136. Adonay, ad-o-noy'; an ephatic form of 113; the Lord (used as a prop. name of God only):-(my) Lord.

430 elohiym, el-o-heem'; plur. of 433; gods in the ordinary sense; but spec. used (in the plur. thus, esp. with the art.) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative..

"And Thomas answered and said to Him, My Lord and my God!"-John 20:28 (Jay Green Interlinear)

"And answered Thomas, and said to Him, The Lord of me and the God of me."

"God" of me is 2316 and "The Lord" is 2962.

2316 theos, theh'-os; of uncert. affin.; a deity, expec. (with 3588) the supreme Divinity; fig. a magistrate; by Heb. very:- x exceeding, God, god [-ly, -ward].

2962 kurios, koo'-ree-os; from kupos kuros (supremacy); supreme in authority, i.e. (as noun) controller; by imp. Mr. (as a respectful title):-God, Lord, master, Sir.

 

[Sothenes]

"You have seen, O Jehovah; do not keep silence, O Jehovah; O Lord, do not be far from me. Stir Yourself and awaken to my judgment, to my cause, my God and my Lord."-Psalm 35:22-23 (Jay Green Interlinear)

This reveals Jehovah's identity as elohim and Adonay.

 

[Nocturnal_Principal_X]

You make some very valid points Sothenes! It is rather interesting how Thomas called Jesus Christ his “Lord and God.â€Â

The following verses are interesting as well:

John 10:30-33 (NASB):
30"I and the Father are one."
31The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him. 32Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?"
33The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."

Colossians 2:9 (NASB):
9For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

Philippians 2:5-8 (NASB):
Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

 

[gingercat]

"And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God."-John 20:28

"Stir up thyself, and awake to my judgment, even unto my cause, my God ('elohiym) and my Lord ('Adonay)."-Psalm 35:23

In Acts 14:11-15, the people lifted their voices and said,"..The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men." and when Barnabus and Paul heard that they rent their clothes (Acts 14:14) but Jesus did no such thing but commended Thomas in John 20:29 which says"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."

If Jesus wasn't God then didn't Thomas take the Lord's name in vain and if Thomas did take the Lord's name in vain then why didn't Jesus rebuke Thomas? Jesus never said He was a lesser God or 'a god'. In the NASB, God refers to Yahweh which is what Thomas was referring to.

Psalms 35:23 Stir up thyself, and awake to my judgment, [even] unto my cause, my God and my Lord.

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

These are not proof that Jesus is God the Father. There are many verses that Jesus is Son of God and sitting at right hand of God. How do you make sense out of those veses?

 

[Nocturnal_Principal_X]

These are not proof that Jesus is God the Father. There are many verses that Jesus is Son of God and sitting at right hand of God. How do you make sense out of those veses?

No one is making that claim. The doctrine known as the Trinity does not call Jesus “God the Father.†What it does call Jesus is “God the Son."

The Trinity goes as follows: “God exists as a unity of three distinct persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.â€Â

“The Trinity
God is three persons
Each person is divine
There is only one God.â€Â

“Each of the three persons is completely divine in nature though each is not the totality of the Godhead.
Each of the three persons is not the other two persons.
Each of the three persons is related to the other two, but are distinct from them.â€Â

All information above, about the Trinity, is taken from carm.org.

I suggest you, gingercat, go to the link given below and read about what the doctrine of the Trinity teaches. I am suggesting that because time and time again you make the same statement: “These are not proof that Jesus is God the Father,†or some variation of it. That pretty much shows me that you don’t know what the doctrine of the Trinity teaches.

(The link below): http://www.carm.org/doctrine/whatisthetrinity.htm

 

[Sothenes]

These are not proof that Jesus is God the Father. There are many verses that Jesus is Son of God and sitting at right hand of God. How do you make sense out of those veses?

I think the verse talks about the authority of Jesus and them sharing the nature of authority. I don't think it is hard but it is not something that I want to tackle overnight. Dr. Kenneth Wuest translated "Revelation" but he didn't explain it. The problem I would see with anyone translating it is knowing when to take 'pictorial' language literally and when not to take it literally.

 

[gingercat]

I think the verse talks about the authority of Jesus and them sharing the nature of authority. I don't think it is hard but it is not something that I want to tackle overnight. Dr. Kenneth Wuest translated "Revelation" but he didn't explain it. The problem I would see with anyone translating it is knowing when to take 'pictorial' language literally and when not to take it literally.

Trinitarians' interpretation is not absolute. Why do you insist that your opposers are false. You are making your doctrine out as absolute. This kind of manner is simply wrong.

 

[Nocturnal_Principal_X]

I think the verse talks about the authority of Jesus and them sharing the nature of authority. I don't think it is hard but it is not something that I want to tackle overnight. Dr. Kenneth Wuest translated "Revelation" but he didn't explain it. The problem I would see with anyone translating it is knowing when to take 'pictorial' language literally and when not to take it literally.

Trinitarians' interpretation is not absolute. Why do you insist that your opposers are false. You are making your doctrine out as absolute. This kind of manner is simply wrong.

Wow, you’re doing the same thing. You’re asserting that your interpretation is absolute as well. Hmmm, so which one is right? You already know what Sothenes and I thinkâ€â€so no need to state it again.

 

[gingercat]

Wow, you’re doing the same thing. You’re asserting that your interpretation is absolute as well. Hmmm, so which one is right? You already know what Sothenes and I thinkâ€â€so no need to state it again.

That's right. That's why we have to wait on His judgment. You should not call your opposers heretics!!! Everyone thinks they are right and others are wrong. Noone has right to claim they have authority to call their opposers are heretics and persecute them. Jesus is the Judge.

 

[Sothenes]

Wow, you’re doing the same thing. You’re asserting that your interpretation is absolute as well. Hmmm, so which one is right? You already know what Sothenes and I thinkâ€â€so no need to state it again.

That's right. That's why we have to wait on His judgment. You should not call your opposers heretics!!! Everyone thinks they are right and others are wrong. Noone has right to claim they have authority to call their opposers are heretics and persecute them. Jesus is the Judge.

Jesus said that when we cast the beam out of our own eye, then we can see clearly to cast the mote out of your eye (Matthew 7:5).

"Yea, and why even of yourselves, judge ye not what is right?"-Luke 12:57

"..whatsoever doth make manifest is light."-Ephesians 5:13

but he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man-1 Cor 2:15

"...And the Lord saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment."-Isaiah 59:15

"For I the Lord love judgment,..."-Isaiah 61:8

"Whosesoever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whosoever sins ye retain, they are retained."-John 20:23

The right of every Biblical Christian is to tell someone that your sins are remitted because you believe or that you retain your sins because you don't believe or that you retain your sins because of heresy that relates to the doctrine of God.

Anyone we judge, we should first offer mercy to because of James 2:13 but the instructions of other verses are quite clear.

 

[ChristineES]

This argument keeps coming up. Jesus is God, The Bible says so, in more than one verse. That is what I believe and will continue to believe.
But I can not see the reason why we should keep trying to convince this to others. In my way of thinking, it is a waste of my time. :o

 

[gingercat]

This argument keeps coming up. Jesus is God, The Bible says so, in more than one verse. That is what I believe and will continue to believe.
But I can not see the reason why we should keep trying to convince this to others. In my way of thinking, it is a waste of my time. :o

You are right. I will not be convinced that Jesus is God, the Father, either. Jesus is Son of God, and Savior of the world, period.

 

[Sothenes]

This argument keeps coming up. Jesus is God, The Bible says so, in more than one verse. That is what I believe and will continue to believe.
But I can not see the reason why we should keep trying to convince this to others. In my way of thinking, it is a waste of my time. :o

I just ask that everyone is patient.

During the Great Depression and history of other countries, there were people who would eat shoe leather just to fill up their stomach so that they wouldn't have the feeling of hunger. If we give up, there are people who aren't as fortunate as us that will settle for error if you don't keep preaching the truth. They will eat the spiritual shoe leather so they don't feel as hungry if you give up.

 

[ChristineES]

I know you that you want everyone to know the truth, but listen to gingercat's response to my post: That she will never believe it. I think she speaks for all those who don't believe it.

 

[gingercat]

I know you that you want everyone to know the truth,

Christine, do you know what you are saying? You are saying that you know the turth and others who don't agree with your trinity dont know the thuth. How arrogant can you be!!!

 

[ChristineES]

I know you that you want everyone to know the truth,

Christine, do you know what you are saying? You are saying that you know the turth and others who don't agree with your trinity dont know the thuth. How arrogant can you be!!!

If you take it like that it would certainly appear that way. But if you take it in the way that was it was meant (that was Sothenes believes is the truth and me too) then it doesn't at all. :wink: I guess I should have worded it that way since people take everything so literal. I will keep that in mind for future reference.

 

[gingercat]

I know you that you want everyone to know the truth,

Christine, do you know what you are saying? You are saying that you know the turth and others who don't agree with your trinity dont know the thuth. How arrogant can you be!!!

If you take it like that it would certainly appear that way. But if you take it in the way that was it was meant (that was Sothenes believes is the truth and me too) then it doesn't at all. :wink: I guess I should have worded it that way since people take everything so literal. I will keep that in mind for future reference.

Please remember that not just trinitarians read and study the Bible. Other Christians also read and study. Please give respect to other Christians who don't agree with your so-called truth.

 

[Fulton Sheen's Warrior]

+JMJ+

Gingercat,

If you don't mind my asking, what are your beliefs about the trinitarian theology?

If I were to ask you:

"Can you tell me what trinitarion theology is?"

How would you answer?

Pax Vobis!

Fulton

 

[ChristineES]

I know you that you want everyone to know the truth,

Christine, do you know what you are saying? You are saying that you know the turth and others who don't agree with your trinity dont know the thuth. How arrogant can you be!!!

If you take it like that it would certainly appear that way. But if you take it in the way that was it was meant (that was Sothenes believes is the truth and me too) then it doesn't at all. :wink: I guess I should have worded it that way since people take everything so literal. I will keep that in mind for future reference.

Please remember that not just trinitarians read and study the Bible. Other Christians also read and study. Please give respect to other Christians who don't agree with your so-called truth.

Why do take what people say and twist it around like this! I told you it was a slip of the fingers. I always respect everyone's opinion, and never once blasted yours or anyone else's. You are always on the defense!! Not everything people write is an attack on you.
Just because I believe it (Jesus is God) to be the truth, does not mean I expect you or anyone else to accept it.
My whole orginal post stands. I think it is a waste of time to try and get people who disagree with you and keep trying to get them to agree. It can not be done. :-?